4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #91

[schooling]

Two drunk gals winding down from a club and late take out, obsessively dialing one of their exes, I doubt they even shut the door.

This would make the "there's somebody here" line that DM attributed to Kaylee even more likely to have actually come from Kaylee. IMO.

 

[schooling]

Am I understanding correctly that familial came in AFTER they were staking out Kohlberger's home in PA? If that's the case then I can only imagine the amount of evidence they have against him.

The Dateline (or was it ABC News?) report of LE having evidence of Kohlberger purchasing the K-Bar prior to his departure from PA -> Moscow in August 2022 seems even more credible in light of this news.

IMO I bet that there are also distinct markings on his Elantra that leaves no question as to who's car it is in the video just prior to the murders, directly after the murders, and subsequently broad daylight at the grocery store.

Because what else could it be that happened in that 2 week gap in December leading up to the AT&T wararant? At that point they didn't have access to his apartment, or his car, or any of his personal belongings.

MOO

 

[schooling]

I mostly agree with this theory but I still don't understand how he was planning to account for if the person he targeted started screaming and yelling before he managed to quiet them.

Then he'd have been trapped in an enclosed space red handed, literally, and potentially by a whole mob of housemates.

We know they were a noisy, hectic, crowded house with plenty of visitors. If he was stalking or monitoring them, he'd have known that too.

JMO MOO

IMO and from personal experience (knowing a victim) there's a propensity NOT to scream. And instead freeze up or pass out or even vomit. Left with very little time to calm down, assess, rationalize and properly process the situation they are in.

The idea that victims scream, fight back and/or run are seemingly (imo) common misconception that mostly happen in movies. And the lack of any of those actions are sometimes used to blame the victim (not saying that you're doing this). Asking "why didn't you scream?" and "why didn't you fight back?" or "why didn't you run or walk away?"

I am not a professional nor do I claim to be. Everything I stated above is IMO from my personal experiences. @10ofRods is way more equipped to answer this question (and she might have already done so)

 

[Boxer]

Am I understanding correctly that familial came in AFTER they were staking out Kohlberger's home in PA? If that's the case then I can only imagine the amount of evidence they have against him.

The Dateline (or was it ABC News?) report of LE having evidence of Kohlberger purchasing the K-Bar prior to his departure from PA -> Moscow in August 2022 seems even more credible in light of this news.

IMO I bet that there are also distinct markings on his Elantra that leaves no question as to who's car it is in the video just prior to the murders, directly after the murders, and subsequently broad daylight at the grocery store.

Because what else could it be that happened in that 2 week gap in December leading up to the AT&T wararant? At that point they didn't have access to his apartment, or his car, or any of his personal belongings.

MOO

Good point.
They would be getting digital evidence by then.

 

[SpiderFalcon]

New today:

https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/isc.coi/CR29-22-2805/2024/011724-Motion-to-Seal-Defendants-Reply-to-States-Objection-to-Defendants-Motion-for-Interlocutory.pdf

https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/isc.coi/CR29-22-2805/2024/011724-Order-Sealing-Defendants-Reply-to-States-Objection-to-Defendants-Motion-for-Interlocutory.pdf

 

[whiterhino]

I think he snuck into Maddie's room with the knife already out and in hand. He's not going to stop and pull it out from wherever he had it and take the time to get it out of the sheath.

If that's the case, he must have put it in a pocket and it fell out, or he set it aside and then intentionally left it at the scene as a little 'screw you' to LE.

JMO

I mean, he could have taken it out of the sheath on his way up the stairs and either had the sheath in his pocket, his other hand or something else. Who really knows?

I'm just saying the sheath was found under either MM or KG IIRC? However it happened, one of the victims seems to have ended up on top of the sheath (it didn't fall out and end up under the bed or something and I feel that is significant to paint a picture of his actions and the scene).

I can't recall DMs description, if she included what the person was wearing. Just the eyebrows and mask. I only mention it as people have speculated that BK put the sheath in his pocket. Just wondering if the description mentioned a hoody or anything with a large pocket.

He was probably so overwhelmed with adrenaline that he didn't even think about it in the moment. I've always wondered if his return to the scene later that morning had anything to do with retrieving the sheath or if he just went back bc he's sick and that's the kind of thing they do.

MOO & JMO.

 

[sunshineray]

I mean, he could have taken it out of the sheath on his way up the stairs and either had the sheath in his pocket, his other hand or something else. Who really knows?

I'm just saying the sheath was found under either MM or KG IIRC? However it happened, one of the victims seems to have ended up on top of the sheath (it didn't fall out and end up under the bed or something and I feel that is significant to paint a picture of his actions and the scene).

I can't recall DMs description, if she included what the person was wearing. Just the eyebrows and mask. I only mention it as people have speculated that BK put the sheath in his pocket. Just wondering if the description mentioned a hoody or anything with a large pocket.

He was probably so overwhelmed with adrenaline that he didn't even think about it in the moment. I've always wondered if his return to the scene later that morning had anything to do with retrieving the sheath or if he just went back bc he's sick and that's the kind of thing they do.

MOO & JMO.

I bet he was thinking about going back in because nobody had called the police. He must have freaked out when he couldn't find the sheath.

 

[Cool Cats]

I mean, he could have taken it out of the sheath on his way up the stairs and either had the sheath in his pocket, his other hand or something else. Who really knows?

I'm just saying the sheath was found under either MM or KG IIRC? However it happened, one of the victims seems to have ended up on top of the sheath (it didn't fall out and end up under the bed or something and I feel that is significant to paint a picture of his actions and the scene).

I can't recall DMs description, if she included what the person was wearing. Just the eyebrows and mask. I only mention it as people have speculated that BK put the sheath in his pocket. Just wondering if the description mentioned a hoody or anything with a large pocket.

He was probably so overwhelmed with adrenaline that he didn't even think about it in the moment. I've always wondered if his return to the scene later that morning had anything to do with retrieving the sheath or if he just went back bc he's sick and that's the kind of thing they do.

MOO & JMO.

I've always wondered if his return to the scene later that morning had anything to do with retrieving the sheath or if he just went back bc he's sick and that's the kind of thing they do.

It is assumed he went back to King Rd but maybe not.

If he did go back after 9:00am then there should be video of his car. The PCA just shows that his cell phone pinged on the cell tower he used at his apartment at 9:00am, then his phone pinged on the Moscow King Rd cell tower from 9:12am through 9:21am.

Then at 9:32am his phone ping again on his apartment cell tower.

From PCA

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I bet he was thinking about going back in because nobody had called the police. He must have freaked out when he couldn't find the sheath.

I should imagine he'd be desperately weighing up the odds between returning to the crime scene to look for the sheath and a) being caught in the act of doing so and b) badly contaminating the crime scene with his own return to the scene. I'd suspect if he was really desperate to retrieve the sheath, he'd even consider pretending to 'discover' the crime scene and trying to think of stories of why he'd be at the house.

Of course, none of these ideas could possibly play out. He'd simply be incriminating himself deeper and deeper. Also, he'd already contaminated and no doubt permanently disposed of his original 'kill suit' and very likely didn't have a second version prepped.

I'd even imagine he could have been wondering whether to hang around the crime scene to 'help' when LE arrive in the hope that he could then claim this is how his DNA or prints would be in the environment.

JMO MOO pure speculation.

 

[Cool Cats]

I should imagine he'd be desperately weighing up the odds between returning to the crime scene to look for the sheath and a) being caught in the act of doing so and b) badly contaminating the crime scene with his own return to the scene. I'd suspect if he was really desperate to retrieve the sheath, he'd even consider pretending to 'discover' the crime scene and trying to think of stories of why he'd be at the house.

Of course, none of these ideas could possibly play out. He'd simply be incriminating himself deeper and deeper. Also, he'd already contaminated and no doubt permanently disposed of his original 'kill suit' and very likely didn't have a second version prepped.

I'd even imagine he could have been wondering whether to hang around the crime scene to 'help' when LE arrive in the hope that he could then claim this is how his DNA or prints would be in the environment.

JMO MOO pure speculation.

If he went back to King Rd or King Rd area at 9:15 in the morning it must have been because he wanted to see if there was a police presence. I imagine he was scouring the news wondering why nothing was coming up.

I think he would have known that 9:00am is too late to even think of going inside, just not realistic. On top of that you have a population dense neighborhood with a dozen people that could see you in broad daylight.

What I don't get is why didn't he try to go back for the sheath when he discovered it was missing? I believe he would have noticed it right away and it still would have been dark.

Makes me wonder if he saw DM and was afraid she was calling LE.

2 Cents

 

[Kemug]

Anyone can access it but all the same where I live (in the UK), it's unlawful to go through someone's domestic waste and remove it.

I only know this as there was once a crazy neighbour who was rooting through people's recycling bins - her purpose was to prove that they had not recycled correctly and action had to be taken against her as she would remove the offending items in order to name and shame the household.

This reminds me of Lesley Trotter, an Australian woman who disappeared last year in Brisbane. It is speculated that her habit of going through her neighbours' bins may have led to this.

 

[iamshadow21]

If he went back to King Rd or King Rd area at 9:15 in the morning it must have been because he wanted to see if there was a police presence. I imagine he was scouring the news wondering why nothing was coming up.

I think he would have known that 9:00am is too late to even think of going inside, just not realistic. On top of that you have a population dense neighborhood with a dozen people that could see you in broad daylight.

What I don't get is why didn't he try to go back for the sheath when he discovered it was missing? I believe he would have noticed it right away and it still would have been dark.

Makes me wonder if he saw DM and was afraid she was calling LE.

2 Cents

You've got to realise that he's probably not going to be cool, calm and logical when he left that house. If this is his first crime of this nature, he's likely going to be all over the shop. Even if he's a sociopath, he's going to be keyed up, full of adrenaline and buzzing with what he saw, heard, felt, and did in those frantic minutes, each killing playing over in his head as he made his escape. If what I believe about this perpetrator is correct, this attack was the culmination of years of fantasy. He'd be drunk on it, dizzy with it. He may not have realised about the sheath until he came down with a bump some significant time later, maybe when he drove out into the dark to possibly dispose of the weapon and clothing. Maybe he didn't realise it wasn't in a pocket until right then. By then, he's miles away. And his phone briefly connects to the network - I suspect because he got lost on the dark country roads and needed to reorient himself with GPS. Things haven't gone precisely to his plan. Do these small imperfections bother him? I don't know. Maybe they drive him nuts. Maybe he's so convinced of his own brilliance and godlike power over life and death that he doesn't care and doesn't think anyone in LE will be smart enough to connect those things to him. Either way, they helped to put BK into custody.

MOO

 

[Kemug]

I think the murderer had at least one accomplice. I think that is why D.M. saw the bushy eyebrowed, "clad in black" person pass by her and go out the back slider door, <modsnip - no link to statement of fact> These are just my thoughts, and I am open to all the possibilities and 50/50 on whether or not Bryan Kohberger was involved. His DNA on the sheath button snap is the most damning part to me, but also the most suspicious, as there are no other pieces of DNA/blood/sweat/fibers to link him to the murders that I know of.

You may be correct, but for myself I just can't see him having an accomplice. Purely because of his personality and history. His lack of friends and confidants is now well known, who was he going to talk to about his feelings and plans? Unless he advertised the position "Wanted: Someone to help with a murder". Now that I can just about see!

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

This reminds me of Lesley Trotter, an Australian woman who disappeared last year in Brisbane. It is speculated that her habit of going through her neighbours' bins may have led to this.

Let's just say this behaviour was the tip of the iceberg of stalking and harassment by my neighbour, so... I would not feel surprised a person could 'disappear' in such high conflict and odd circumstances as they really get under your skin. Not that I'm advocating murdering anyone!

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

You may be correct, but for myself I just can't see him having an accomplice. Purely because of his personality and history. His lack of friends and confidants is now well known, who was he going to talk to about his feelings and plans? Unless he advertised the position "Wanted: Someone to help with a murder". Now that I can just about see!

Sometimes these sort of disaffected people can meet a like minded (and / or vulnerable) outcast and form a very strong bond of 'me and you against this cruel world' type thing. Folie a deux. Since BK was known to be communicating with criminals, personally I wouldn't rule it out. Obv, it's down to LE and a judge and jury to rule it out, not me!

I think Elliot Rodger was really hoping to groom his one and only friend into that role and according to his autobiography / manifesto, he seems quite frustrated and disappointed when his friend pulls back from the friendship instead of indulging his increasingly terrifying hate speech - one wonders, in his ideal version of the world, what exactly would ER have preferred? That they both get armed up and go on a killing spree. I think that he would very much have wanted that.

JMO MOO

 

[Cool Cats]

You've got to realise that he's probably not going to be cool, calm and logical when he left that house. If this is his first crime of this nature, he's likely going to be all over the shop. Even if he's a sociopath, he's going to be keyed up, full of adrenaline and buzzing with what he saw, heard, felt, and did in those frantic minutes, each killing playing over in his head as he made his escape. If what I believe about this perpetrator is correct, this attack was the culmination of years of fantasy. He'd be drunk on it, dizzy with it. He may not have realised about the sheath until he came down with a bump some significant time later, maybe when he drove out into the dark to possibly dispose of the weapon and clothing. Maybe he didn't realise it wasn't in a pocket until right then. By then, he's miles away. And his phone briefly connects to the network - I suspect because he got lost on the dark country roads and needed to reorient himself with GPS. Things haven't gone precisely to his plan. Do these small imperfections bother him? I don't know. Maybe they drive him nuts. Maybe he's so convinced of his own brilliance and godlike power over life and death that he doesn't care and doesn't think anyone in LE will be smart enough to connect those things to him. Either way, they helped to put BK into custody.

MOO

Interesting point that this killer may have turned his phone back on simply because he got lost on those dark country roads and wanted to get directions.

What time was Moscow Idaho sunrise on November 13, 2022?

Even at 5:00am I assume it was still dark. I can't imagine him noticing that his sheath fell out of his pocket later than 5:00am.

You could be right that the sheath was in his pocket and he didn't realize until later that it had fallen out.

Quote

If what I believe about this perpetrator is correct, this attack was the culmination of years of fantasy.

Agree. But why did he "snap" on that particular weekend? The weekend of November 12 and 13. Why not the weekend before or after? When exactly were his confrontations with his professor? Maybe that is a clue.

Maybe he felt pressure to hurry and do it before finals and Christmas break. He may have known he wasn't coming back.

Perhaps feeling "hurried" caused him to make mistakes.

2 Cents

 

[Megnut]

It's also possible that he didn't know he'd left the sheath until it hit the media (that LE had gone to a local shop asking about a specific knife). If he stripped all his crimewear into a prepared sachel or pail in his trunk or somesuch, he might not have known the knife wasn't in that jumble.
Or it's possible he left it intentionally, as a signature, confident he'd autoclaved any DNA. Interesting however how careful he was with his DNA in the days and weeks afterwards.....
I don't get the sense that he beats hindering up over mistakes made. He might be fascinated with how it played out in real time.

Consider this small distinction: most of us from birth on have been conditioned and rewarded for acts of affection, closeness. You pet a cat. It purrs. You pet it more. IMO the BKs find some kind of power in withholding the expected. Maybe they go through the motions but IMO they're very aware it's an act. You combine that with a general dissatisfaction with life, ascribe it to what others are doing or not doing, project all blame, create a fantasy life around it... ideas seek opportunities and here we are...

I suspect that he's doing quiet well in confinement. Alone with his thoughts. Just like he likes it.

JMO

 

[iamshadow21]

Interesting point that this killer may have turned his phone back on simply because he got lost on those dark country roads and wanted to get directions.

What time was Moscow Idaho sunrise on November 13, 2022?

Even at 5:00am I assume it was still dark. I can't imagine him noticing that his sheath fell out of his pocket later than 5:00am.

You could be right that the sheath was in his pocket and he didn't realize until later that it had fallen out.

Quote


Agree. But why did he "snap" on that particular weekend? The weekend of November 12 and 13. Why not the weekend before or after? When exactly were his confrontations with his professor? Maybe that is a clue.

Maybe he felt pressure to hurry and do it before finals and Christmas break. He may have known he wasn't coming back.

Perhaps feeling "hurried" caused him to make mistakes.

2 Cents

According to google, sunrise was at 6:48am that day.

Maybe he didn't snap at all. Maybe he chose.

MOO

 

[Cool Cats]

According to google, sunrise was at 6:48am that day.

Maybe he didn't snap at all. Maybe he chose.

MOO

Both. Chose that night but snapped and lost control of the crime scene.

 

[Megnut]

Maybe he didn't snap at all. Maybe he chose.

MOO

Rsbm

This.

He chose.

He stopped holding back and chose forward.

And that is scary as hell.

JMO