4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #99

[Cool Cats]

@mrjitty @Megnut @jepop @MassGuy (anyone else that’s followed hundreds of murder cases, apologies if your name/s were not included):

Was there any particular case that any of you noticed which started the trend we currently see with defense teams trying to both garner sympathy for their client AND taint potential jurors? I’m just curious because the Delphi trial was "my first time" <blushes> closely following a case/trial.

Is it something new or just a result of the world getting smaller (news, stories, rumors & comments spread in minutes & hours versus the days of traditional news outlets) due to the advent of internet & social media?

TIA & MOO

This is a death penalty case and even AT said the bar is set higher in DP cases.

What I am seeing is pretty normal in DP cases.

The defense "went crazy" with their Motions in the biggest DP case I ever followed. A family of 4 killed 8 people in another family over custody.

The defense does want certain "facts" to get out in the press to counter negative publicity. I have seen this many times to "get around" gag orders.

2 Cents

 

[jepop]

From May 2023

Bryan Kohberger 'broke into woman's apartment' to 'install cameras'

The 28-year-old criminology student had befriended a woman at Washington State University in Pullman, Washington, according to Dateline.

www.dailymail.co.uk

View attachment 562212
I was not aware that traces of blood and a secret storage locker were found at BK's apartment in Pullman?!
Has this already been discussed?

It's been discussed, not much to say really! We know nothing about the blood that was IDed and nothing has come out about it specifically in court filings. My personal feeling is that it was not identified as being connected to any of the victims. Cheers for linking the return on WA apt.search warrant below. From memory, the storage area was empty and nothing was found in it. I think that's probably apparent from return of warrant. The Daily M's unique contribution is probably just adding the word "secret" Jmo

ETA actually, pretty sure it came out during Jan 23/24 hearings that there was no biological evidence of the victims identified in his apt. Judge H pointed out during D argument as did P on rebuttal that this is ofcourse not exculpatory. D was arguing deception via omission for particular warrants. Imo and Judge H's not a valid argument. Jmo

 

[SpiderFalcon]

Thomas J. Slovenski - Forensic Resources

forensicresources.org

He's in the exhibits list in the motion for a franks hearing

 

[INfisherman]

Maybe not “spread”? A party house is a party house. <modsnip: No approved source re parents> Now out of two witnesses, we have one who looks like she is having issues. The other one we never saw. Some other males DNA is a question.

So with the frat across the street, maybe more mundane things were involved?

I have questions about the house and what was going on there before murders. Is it unreasonable? <modsnip - off topic>, it is very realistic partying at colleges.

Obviously we see things which defense attorneys tend to do in pretrial hearings in different lights. Regardless of our opinions, we will eventually find out the purposes once rulings are made on certain motions as well as when the actual trial is underway.

AT’s doing her job, which is to question & cast doubt. I just don’t find it convincing at this point. Not everyone may agree with my thoughts on the matter & that’s perfectly fine.

JMO

ETA Removed unnecessary opinion

 

[Charlot123]

Obviously we see things which defense attorneys tend to do in pretrial hearings in different lights. Regardless of our opinions, we will eventually find out the purposes once rulings are made on certain motions as well as when the actual trial is underway.

AT’s doing her job, which is to question & cast doubt. I just don’t find it convincing at this point. Not everyone may agree with my thoughts on the matter & that’s perfectly fine.

ETA Removed unnecessary opinion

JMO

<modsnip>

Anne Taylor is a good lawyer and is asking very reasonable questions. We are a victim-friendly forum, but people living in and around the house were a very different group. So questions about who could enter the house, who knew the codes, why some friends entered it before the police, they are all reasonable.

 

[Cool Cats]

<modsnip>

Anne Taylor is a good lawyer and is asking very reasonable questions. We are a victim-friendly forum, but people living in and around the house were a very different group. So questions about who could enter the house, who knew the codes, why some friends entered it before the police, they are all reasonable.

And all these people were ruled out, interviewed, some or all asked to submit DNA, phones were analyzed, and I believe a parent said the code lock wasn't being used but I assume there could have been other locks on that door. They even took DNA off a cigarette.

It looks like BK used the 2nd floor sliding door to leave. Probably parked on the back street.

2 Cents

 

[jepop]

<modsnip>

Anne Taylor is a good lawyer and is asking very reasonable questions. We are a victim-friendly forum, but people living in and around the house were a very different group. So questions about who could enter the house, who knew the codes, why some friends entered it before the police, they are all reasonable.

Although remembering that none of those people were ever named by LE as POIs and MPD spent a lot of time which could have been more usefully spent in rumour control and had to list cleared individuals subject to the mad rumours. Their info page for the case was constantly being updated in this regard. Why some entered before police is imo nothing to do with how and why the victims were murdered. It was widely reported I believe, imo, that the roomates called up some friends when they realised something was wrong. Just personally, I think the surviving victims have had enough scrutiny and we know they have nothing to do with the murders of their friends. Jmo

 

[fcavanaugh]

<modsnip>

Anne Taylor is a good lawyer and is asking very reasonable questions. We are a victim-friendly forum, but people living in and around the house were a very different group. So questions about who could enter the house, who knew the codes, why some friends entered it before the police, they are all reasonable.

They are reasonable however these others- neighbors, friends, people who had access to the house etc., were ruled out imo due to no corroborating evidence found linking them to the crime/quadruple homicide.

IMO, that’s how investigations work, LE investigate people/POI’s, conduct interviews, check alibis, check phones/phone records/other digital forensics etc., and rule people out using these and other investigative methods. They follow where the evidence/corroborating evidence leads and to whom it leads aka a suspect.

IOW, it is not just one piece of evidence that leads LE to the suspect but rather, there usually needs to be corroborating evidence which rules other poi’s out and leads to one suspect. Corroborating evidence is key in investigations and in most cases, leads LE to their suspect. I have no doubt with all the agencies involved here, that all LE involved did their due diligence/conducted a thorough investigation ruled all other poi’s out and led them to BK as suspect via evidence/corroborating evidence of which we the public currently know about (and my guess is the prosecution likely has much more we don’t know about) about his phone activity that night, his car/car locations that night, the driving to/around the area something like 12 times prior to the homicide, driving by the house the next morning (probably hadn’t seen it on the news yet and curiosity got the best of him so did a drive by the next morning to see what was going on at the house? Or thought maybe he’d drive over there to try and go back inside to collect the dropped/forgotten knife sheath?), etc., etc.

And then the biggie of his single source DNA found on the snap of the sheath that held the murder weapon. IMO, they have enough corroborating evidence against this guy that they’d be able to take him to trial even without the DNA. I see his DNA found on the sheath as a bonus and I’m glad they have it because it just bolsters the state’s case and why AT is trying so hard to get it tossed. IMO she won’t get her way, her client is toast.

IMHOO

 

[Balthazar]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed>
In the January 23 hearing - which I linked above, AT specifically stated that BK's name came from the FBI shortly before Dec 23, 2022 and that the MPD detectives had never heard of him prior to that. I have no reason not to believe her. JMO.

Where did the FBI get his name? Maybe a CI? JMO.


All JMO, IMOO.

 

[Gigiky]

In the January 23 hearing - which I linked above, AT specifically stated that BK's name came from the FBI shortly before Dec 23, 2022 and that the MPD detectives had never heard of him prior to that. I have no reason not to believe her. JMO.

Where did the FBI get his name? Maybe a CI? JMO.


All JMO, IMOO.

Wow! An Informant? That would be certainly open the door for a lot of questions. JMO

 

[Boxer]

Could BK have been on his parents Amazon account? We shared an account with my daughter and son in law for many years. You still have your own log-in, but can make purchases, watch Prime or play music independently. I don't know if the main account holder would have access to your purchase history and be able to provide the history to LE but it's absolutely possible that BK's parents may have.
JMO

Buying a fighting knife on his parents account?

 

[Boxer]

Although remembering that none of those people were ever named by LE as POIs and MPD spent a lot of time which could have been more usefully spent in rumour control and had to list cleared individuals subject to the mad rumours. Their info page for the case was constantly being updated in this regard. Why some entered before police is imo nothing to do with how and why the victims were murdered. It was widely reported I believe, imo, that the roomates called up some friends when they realised something was wrong. Just personally, I think the surviving victims have had enough scrutiny and we know they have nothing to do with the murders of their friends. Jmo

The first big thing was the police asking the public to look for a White Elantra (right model, wrong year set as we now know)

IIRC one was found in Washington state that got ruled out quickly.
In all that snow it could stay a snow a snow bank for months unnoticed.

 

[ShastaDaisy]

Buying a fighting knife on his parents account?

Is it not possible??
AFAIK, You can have at least one sub account on Prime. You have your own login etc. Also, BK is an adult and seems to have owned other weapons so it's not like his parents were unaware that he liked guns & knives. There was an Amazon Firestick among the items that were taken from his home so it's possible they could have been sharing access to their Prime account with him. It's also possible that he had his own account. The reason I think he might have shared one with his parents is because he was dependent on them (or so it would seem) when he was attending school back east; living in their home, etc. He was a TA and going to school in Pullman, and there wasn't much furniture in his apartment from what has been reported.
It's speculation of course.
JMO

 

[INfisherman]

Is it not possible??
AFAIK, You can have at least one sub account on Prime. You have your own login etc. Also, BK is an adult and seems to have owned other weapons so it's not like his parents were unaware that he liked guns & knives. There was an Amazon Firestick among the items that were taken from his home so it's possible they could have been sharing access to their Prime account with him. It's also possible that he had his own account. The reason I think he might have shared one with his parents is because he was dependent on them (or so it would seem) when he was attending school back east; living in their home, etc. He was a TA and going to school in Pullman, and there wasn't much furniture in his apartment from what has been reported.
It's speculation of course.
JMO

Sure, it’s possible. I’m just not so sure that fits his character. Respectfully, consider:

I get the feeling BK was a bit more of a loner & had likely hidden other illegal activities from his parents when he was younger, such as drug use. While I do respect what you’re saying, I just do not get the feeling he would’ve needed or involved his parents. These murders were about testing his meddle in getting away with it & likely an out for pent up feelings of jealousy & rejection in a social level.

I do like how you’re thinking about things, I’m just not sure it fits him. Who really knows, though, we both could be way off base.

MOO

 

[ShastaDaisy]

Sure, it’s possible. I’m just not so sure that fits his character. Respectfully, consider:

I get the feeling BK was a bit more of a loner & had likely hidden other illegal activities from his parents when he was younger, such as drug use. While I do respect what you’re saying, I just do not get the feeling he would’ve needed or involved his parents. These murders were about testing his meddle in getting away with it & likely an out for pent up feelings of jealousy & rejection in a social level.

I do like how you’re thinking about things, I’m just not sure it fits him. Who really knows, though, we both could be way off base.

MOO

BK had his daddy fly across the country to accompany him on the drive back for Christmas break when he could have just flown home and back to WA at the end of the break. I think he was still almost entirely dependent on his parents. His stab (oof) at independence in Pullman was short lived & did not end well between losing his TA position and committing a quadruple homicide. I think he was prepared to stay in PA with his parents had he not been apprehended.
Edited to add JMO!

 

[ShastaDaisy]

These murders were about testing his meddle in getting away with it & likely an out for pent up feelings of jealousy & rejection in a social level.

RSBBM
I agree 100%

 

[Gigiky]

Sure, it’s possible. I’m just not so sure that fits his character. Respectfully, consider:

I get the feeling BK was a bit more of a loner & had likely hidden other illegal activities from his parents when he was younger, such as drug use. While I do respect what you’re saying, I just do not get the feeling he would’ve needed or involved his parents. These murders were about testing his meddle in getting away with it & likely an out for pent up feelings of jealousy & rejection in a social level.

I do like how you’re thinking about things, I’m just not sure it fits him. Who really knows, though, we both could be way off base.

MOO

But he did involve them. He bought his problems right to their door step. He was arrested at his parents home. Trying to avoid being caught. I feel like he was dependent on his parents more than we probably know. JMO

 

[ShastaDaisy]

But he did involve them. He bought his problems right to their door step. He was arrested at his parents home. Trying to avoid being caught. I feel like he was dependent on his parents more than we probably know. JMO

I feel for his parents as much as his victims. I'm sure they did anything and everything they could to help him. Wondering if he was ever steadily employed at any point in his educational career; enough so that he could live independently and make a car payment, afford a phone, insurance, Amazon account, etc.

 

[INfisherman]

tBut he did involve them. He bought his problems right to their door step. He was arrested at his parents home. Trying to avoid being caught. I feel like he was dependent on his parents more than we probably know. JMO

Sorry, I meant involve them during the early phases of planning & carrying out the crime. True, he did involve them when he drove back home but we don’t know if that was intentional or a byproduct of him trying to elude the heat out west. He very well may have been regrouping & planning to leave the country for all we know. Interesting to speculate regardless.

He may have been more dependent than we know, hard telling at this point.

 

[Gigiky]

I feel for his parents as much as his victims. I'm sure they did anything and everything they could to help him. Wondering if he was ever steadily employed at any point in his educational career; enough so that he could live independently and make a car payment, afford a phone, insurance, Amazon account, etc.

Agreed ! I'm sure I read something about his Father trying to find friends for him on his college campus? That was one of the saddest/scariest things I have read about this case. JMO.