50/60 year old Amnesia Victim Savannah, GA Thread #5

[carolwood]

Yes, I do recall an incident. It was actually only one worker (he lived here in Richmond Hill, had 3 small children) and it was a forklift accident. It also took place at the truck stop I mentioned earlier that is across the street from the Burger King not at a plant (there are no plants in the area). The truck stop was doing some construction on a new "overhang" area to the side where truckers can wash their rigs if I recall right.

OSHA obviously got involved and the truck stop (T/A) was fined for lack of training, unsafe equipment, etc.

Just went looking for an archive newspaper article to get the actual date of the incident (August 26, 2004) and read in the article that between 2002 - 2003 OSHA had investigated 11 forklift related fatalities in the southeast. Maybe that is where the "several people were killed in crane accidents" came from. When this accident happened, it was big news for a few days since it was a local father involved and the truck stop was blocked off for a few days.

The motels in the area we are talking about are usually only booked and busy during the big St Pat's Day celebration in Savannah. These motels are usually occupied "by the hour" or by transients looking for work. With the exception of a Holiday Inn, the rates usually run $29.99 a night.....lots of drug activity, domestic calls, etc at these motels by the local police.

I don't think he was most likely staying at one of these though. I think that would have been easy for the police to check.

I do know two of the investigators very well and will ask them of their recollections the next time I run into them.

No this is not the same accident, this is a new one I didn't know of. The accidents I am refering too was at a plant on the river. Good thought, we can look into this too.
I will find those articles of the one I'm thinking of and post, may bring back some thoughts for you as well. Thanks

 

[carolwood]

Okay, I went back and found it, here are the links:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73384&page=6

post #140. 144, 145, 146, 149, 151, 153, 157, 158, 159, 164, 166, 167. It is pretty long and sure there are a few more, but these threads will give a sense of what I was talking about and Savannah Now did have the articles, 5 or so if I remember on the accidents. Thanks again

 

[believe09]

Hi Kentjbkent-I spoken with the owners of the truck stop you mention in your post months ago and they promised to post some of the flyers we created on BK. A check afterwards revealed that the posters had NOT been posted and I didn't get any return calls as to why. We thought there was a likelihood that BK may bave passed through their area because of its proximity to the Burger King and the fact that many of the truckers used to eat at the BK when it was open.

Do you have the capacity to print and would you be willing to print a few of his flyers and post them at the truck stop? It might be the missing piece we have all been looking for....

Take care!

 

[Kentjbkent]

Hi Kentjbkent-I spoken with the owners of the truck stop you mention in your post months ago and they promised to post some of the flyers we created on BK. A check afterwards revealed that the posters had NOT been posted and I didn't get any return calls as to why. We thought there was a likelihood that BK may bave passed through their area because of its proximity to the Burger King and the fact that many of the truckers used to eat at the BK when it was open.

Do you have the capacity to print and would you be willing to print a few of his flyers and post them at the truck stop? It might be the missing piece we have all been looking for....

Take care!

Absolutely! Just got home from work and am about to go out for a quick dinner, then will be back. But I can tell you that there are NO flyers posted anywhere in town, and definitely not at the truck stop. There is a Popeyes Fried Chicken attached to the truck stop that I frequent often (I am from New Orleans!) and I have NEVER seen any reference.

I am also a local business owner and know pretty much all the business owners in town.

 

[Kentjbkent]

No this is not the same accident, this is a new one I didn't know of. The accidents I am refering too was at a plant on the river. Good thought, we can look into this too.
I will find those articles of the one I'm thinking of and post, may bring back some thoughts for you as well. Thanks

Hi Carolwood,

Just read over the link you posted referring to this/these accidents, and I had never heard of this. However, Effingham is a good haul from Richmond Hill, and is a larger area with more lodging opportunities than Richmond Hill in 2004 so I think it is a stretch to think that Benjamin may have been working this construction job, but was lodging in Richmond Hill. I am also operating under the assumption that he did not have his own mode of transportation since so far, I have read nothing about a vehicle/motorcycle that was eventually found abandoned, etc.

In 2004, there were literally three or four motel choices on the one mile stretch of Hwy 17 where the Burger King was located. In the last year or two, there has been new construction of three (or four) new motels but those were not in existence in 2004.

 

[Kentjbkent]

Welcome to the thread here, Kentjbkent!

It's very nice to have a local person here, thanks for sharing what you know about the area.

Do you remember if around the time Benjaman was found, was there a lot of activity because of the hurricane? (Were people stranded in your area, because of flight cancelations or anything like that?) I don't say things very well, but I'm wondering if there is a particular destination "on the ocean" that you think Bejaman could have been heading towards, if he was traveling I-95? Your description of the area does make it seem like a robbery/beating could take place without much attention being paid. If Benjaman had been traveling by car, could he have ended up in this area as an easy off the highway spot to grab a hotel or something?

Sorry to bombard you with questions, I'd love to hear your opinions, since you are local. :blowkiss:

Anytime there is a threat of a hurricane in South Florida, we see an influx of activity in the motels in this area (cheaper than going into downtown Savannah) and I usually receive phone calls at my business from those who have fled, but this usually only occurs for a few days.

Richmond Hill is directly off the I-95 corridor heading North, so I, too, assumed that the possibility was there that Benjamin was travelling and was simply stopping overnight, but get stuck at the thought of what happened to the car he was travelling in? If he was travelling with others, why no alarm from them that he was missing?

Keep in mind....I moved here in early 2001. Since then, there has been no major crime incident. Richmond Hill has had one murder on the record but that was before I moved here and was a family situation. The most notable crime since I moved here was earlier this year when Gregg Allman's home was robbed right after he left on tour, and that even turnrd out to be an "inside job" (police captain's 17 yr old daughter if you can imagine).

 

[Boyz_Mum]

The mode of transportation is a stickler. Is there a bus station nearby? I wondered at one point if Ben had flown into Savannah Airport to meet with someone and left the airport in their car... so many different ideas in regards to transportation. Is the Savannah Airport far from the area?

Thanks for all the information about the area. Do you remember if Hurricane Charley (mid Aug 04) or Hurricane Francis (Aug 31 04) had a large impact on travel in your area or if either hurricane sent a bunch of people up your way? Or do you remember if in the days leading up to Hurricane Francis, there were travelers advisories in your area?

 

[Kentjbkent]

The mode of transportation is a stickler. Is there a bus station nearby? I wondered at one point if Ben had flown into Savannah Airport to meet with someone and left the airport in their car... so many different ideas in regards to transportation. Is the Savannah Airport far from the area?

Thanks for all the information about the area. Do you remember if Hurricane Charley (mid Aug 04) or Hurricane Francis (Aug 31 04) had a large impact on travel in your area or if either hurricane sent a bunch of people up your way? Or do you remember if in the days leading up to Hurricane Francis, there were travelers advisories in your area?

My husband works at the Savannah airport. It is a 30 minute drive from Richmond Hill (during non-traffic hours..he travels it at 5 am and 3 pm). Had he left a car at the airport, it would have been eventually found and reported I would think......the mode of transportation has been a problem for me too!

Yes, both hurricanes have a large impact on traffic, but only along I-95. The interstate actually runs alongside RH...there only being 2 exits off the interstate for RH. One exit has the fast food restaurants and cheap motels (Hwy 17 where Benj was found)....the other is more the residential (Hwy 144)... Keep in mind that when hurricane warnings and evacuations take place in the state of Florida, most people evacuate instate, towards Atlanta, as opposed to straight up the coast, as that is usually the path that the hurricane is taking (why run ahead of the storm as opposed to getting out of its way, KWIM?)

 

[Kentjbkent]

Thought maybe it would help to give you a descriptive idea of what Richmond Hill was like, and offered, in 2004...for whatever it might offer in helping with theories.

Richmond Hill is a very small community about 30 miles outside of Savannah. There are two RH exits off of I-95. One exit leads onto Hwy 17 which is where the truck stop and Burger King were located. In 2004, there were only about 20 businesses on about a one mile stretch of this exit. To continue further up Hwy 17 would lead you to Hinesville (30 miles), where Ft Stewart is located. Many miles in the other direction would eventually lead you to Savannah.

In 2004, the big draw of this exit was the T/A truckstop. There is a restaurant attached, and a Longjohn Silvers (now Popeyes). There were approximately 4 cheap motels in the vicinity (Econolodge, Motel 6, A-1 motel) and a small Holiday Inn. There was a McDonald's, Burger King, Waffle House, Wendys (I think it was built in 2004), all within walking distance, right on top of each other. There were also 3 or 4 gas stations (El Cheapos, Chus, Raceway).

This area was (and still is) busy during the daytime hours with travellers (and 18 wheelers) filling up and hitting fast food restaurants as they drove down I-95. However, during the night hours, this area did (and still does) have a seedier side to it. It is frequented by prostitutes and lots of drug dealing. Most locals will not gas up in this area after dark.

Richmond Hill did not have (and still does not have) major chain employers. In 2004, the only "chain" type stores were a brand new Kroger and a Food Lion grocery store, as well as a CVS drugstore. There was (and is) no Walmart, Kmart, etc). All businesses are local owned type stores. To visit any type of office supply, Best Buy, Walmart, etc you have to travel into Savannah.

However, just 6 miles past the RH exits (traveling north towards SC) is another exit (Hwy 204) that has more of your "chain" type motel/hotels such as Ramada, Hampton, etc. There is also a group of chain type restaurants such as Ruby Tuesdays, Applebees, etc, as well as a small outlet mall. This area, however, is not considered RH and is not under the jurisdiction of the RH police department. Most travelers, if stopping for the night, choose to stay in this area as it is well lit, busy, has nicer grade motel/hotels, etc.

(This has always puzzled me if Benjamin was just traveling through. Why did he choose to stop in the Hwy 17 area as opposed to the more popluated (and advertised re: billboards, etc) area of Hwy 204.

As far as the RH police department, there is virtually no crime here, with the exception of the occasional DUI or domestic dispute (they print the police reports in the local paper twice a week). Lately, the big "crime wave" has been a rash of car breakins in various neighborhoods, although the cars are not actually being "broken into". People are leaving their cars unlocked at night and the PD assumes it is kids who are entering the vehicles and stealing items. For this reason, I don't think the RHPD was very experienced in dealing with a situation such as Benjamin's when it happened...especially in 2004 (when the force was VERY small!)

 

[carolwood]

Wonderful insight.

 

[Kentjbkent]

http://quantumtour.com/entity/richmondhill/tour/richmondhill/scene/hwy17s/#viewer

Am putting some stuff together for Believe this morning, and found this website. This is a virtual tour website of where Benjamin was found. Not sure when this video was shot, but watched all the videos of RH on this page and based on some of the businesses shown in other links, I am going to say either late 2006, early 2007.

On this video I linked, Burger King is still in existence but it went out of business about a year ago and was completely torn down shortly after (the property has been sold).

Just thought it might help to actually see the area

 

[dreamweaver]

http://quantumtour.com/entity/richmondhill/tour/richmondhill/scene/hwy17s/#viewer

Am putting some stuff together for Believe this morning, and found this website. This is a virtual tour website of where Benjamin was found. Not sure when this video was shot, but watched all the videos of RH on this page and based on some of the businesses shown in other links, I am going to say either late 2006, early 2007.

On this video I linked, Burger King is still in existence but it went out of business about a year ago and was completely torn down shortly after (the property has been sold).

Just thought it might help to actually see the area

--------------------------------------

Thanks for finding that virtual tour of Richmond Hills area and seeing how the Burger King figured into the layout of streets and other businesses.
If Burger King is set farther back than the other businesses, then maybe whoever attacked him, thought that was the most convenient place to place him..by the dumpster. And maybe the dumpster area was hidden from view of the street lights and the other surrounding businesses.

 

[Kentjbkent]

--------------------------------------

Thanks for finding that virtual tour of Richmond Hills area and seeing how the Burger King figured into the layout of streets and other businesses.
If Burger King is set farther back than the other businesses, then maybe whoever attacked him, thought that was the most convenient place to place him..by the dumpster. And maybe the dumpster area was hidden from view of the street lights and the other surrounding businesses.

You are exactly right. Having gone through that drivethru many times while BK was still open (my son loved their burgers) there was quite alot of parking lot behind you (when at the drivethru speaker) and the dumpster area was at the very back of the lot.

 

[carolwood]

You are exactly right. Having gone through that drivethru many times while BK was still open (my son loved their burgers) there was quite alot of parking lot behind you (when at the drivethru speaker) and the dumpster area was at the very back of the lot.

Pulling up to the order apeaker area, could you see the dumpster's?
If not the order area, because some BK's have the order speaker in the curve, but say you were in line waiting to get there, could you see the dumpsters?

 

[DJ3569]

It could have been a simple carjacking and robbery. Who ever took his car could have pieced it off or destroyed it and dumped it where no one would bother to check an abandoned car. What ever happens all of you are amazing and if I ever needed to find someone I would be here first!!

 

[Cubby]

Ain't easy....

Ok, so I finally got a number for that sales rep I worked with for about a half a minute in Indy. Really it was a few months, no more than 6-7 mo;s if that, and in the early 90's. No of course he did not remember me until Isaid I worked for X and I replaced X & X. then he said, now I remember you! I got less than 60 seconds of his time, but I DID get an email and he would be happy to help...... most people would have been hung up on. Phew for my umpteen years of telemarketing experience!

I hope. and I need a brilliant believe09 letter to help! ( no one is better at letter writing).

I mentioned Burger Chef and Sani Serve from Indy for memories.... and he came up with a Clancy Burger? and ya he knows a few old timers from then.

I don't want to mess up or miss out on this opportunity. Ok WSbrains, What other Indy memories should we include? White River, the cemetary? I am gonna ask on the ? thread..... any hold backs from Indy we need to spill here.

What's a Clancy burger and were they good? Is that local? Never heard of them.

 

[carolwood]

Ain't easy....

Ok, so I finally got a number for that sales rep I worked with for about a half a minute in Indy. Really it was a few months, no more than 6-7 mo;s if that, and in the early 90's. No of course he did not remember me until Isaid I worked for X and I replaced X & X. then he said, now I remember you! I got less than 60 seconds of his time, but I DID get an email and he would be happy to help...... most people would have been hung up on. Phew for my umpteen years of telemarketing experience!

I hope. and I need a brilliant believe09 letter to help! ( no one is better at letter writing).

I mentioned Burger Chef and Sani Serve from Indy for memories.... and he came up with a Clancy Burger? and ya he knows a few old timers from then.

I don't want to mess up or miss out on this opportunity. Ok WSbrains, What other Indy memories should we include? White River, the cemetary? I am gonna ask on the ? thread..... any hold backs from Indy we need to spill here.

What's a Clancy burger and were they good? Is that local? Never heard of them.

Found this on Clancy Burgers:

Clancy Burgers History:

http://www.grindstonecharleys.com/ourstory.html

Obit for the owner of Clancy's:

http://www.indianarestaurants.org/ViewNews.asp?ID=646&Type=News
and
another obit in Kokomo Tribune with lots of info:
Carl Fogelsong
April 29, 1934 - Dec. 28, 2006

NOBLESVILLE — Carl Fogelsong, 72, Noblesville, died Thursday, Dec. 28, 2006, at Riverview Hospital. He was born April 29, 1934, in Kokomo, to Lavon Lester Fogelsong and Bertha Madge (Martin) Fogelsong, they both preceded him in death. He was married to Rosanell (Buntin) Fogelsong in 1958, and she survives. He was a 1953 graduate of Galveston High School.

He served in the U.S. Navy from 1953 to 1957, and was a Seabee who helped in the construction of airfields and bases all over the Far East. In 1965, he founded Clancy’s Incorporated in Noblesville. The first restaurant, formerly at 100 S. 10th St. had the first double drive thru in the Midwest. At one point, Clancy’s had 31 fast food lacations in a four state area. Clancy’s continues to operate 14 restaurants, including one Clancy’s in Sidney, Ohio, 8 Grindstone Charley’s restaurants in Indiana and Ohio, Houlihan’s in downtown Indianapolis, Michaelangelo’s Italian Bistro in Noblesville, Ponderosa Steakhouse in Urbana, Ohio, and Country Cooker in Rushville. He served as CEO of Clancy’s until his retirement in 2000 and was chairman of the board of Clancy’s until his death.

He was on the board of directors for the Boys & Girls Club of Noblesville for 23 years, American National Bank, board member of Noblesville Chamber of Commerce, and chairman of the regional United Way Fund drive in 1978. He was a member of the Kiwanis, Young Presidents’ Organization, and later World Presidents’ Organization. He was also a member of the First United Methodist Church in Noblesville. In 2003, he was voted into the Indiana Restaurant Hall of Fame in recognition of his innovation and excellence in the restaurant industry.

Besides his wife, also surviving are a son, Perry Fogelsong; two daughters, Becky Reynolds and Annette Cunion, all of Noblesville; two brothers, Gale Fogelsong, Noblesville, and Steve Fogelsong, Galveston; sister, Bonnie Davis, Frankfort; and 8 grandchildren.

Services will be at 10 a.m. Tuesday at First United Methodist Church, Noblesville. Burial will be in Crownland Cemetery, Noblesville. Visitation will be from 2 to 5 p.m. Monday at Randall & Roberts Funeral Home in Noblesville. Memorial contributions can be made to the Boys & Girls Club of Noblesville, 1448 Conner St., Noblesville, IN 46060 or First United Methodist Church, 2051 Monument St., Noblesville, IN 46060

 

[hyldo]

What's a Clancy burger and were they good? Is that local? Never heard of them.

To follow-up on what's already been posted. . . Clancy's no longer exists. If you're familiar with Plainfield, there was one on US 40 (aka Main Street). It later became Michelangelo's, and it is now a Donato's location. I know there was one in Noblesville, too, and it is now a Michelangelo's. Clancy's hamburgers were very similar to Wendy's. Here was their old-timey policeman mascot:

From what I can remember, Clancy's in Plainfield was closed by the late 1980s.

 

[Cubby]

Clancy burgers in Noblesville, is just north of Indianapolis. From what I read the/a county just north of Indy. I asked in the question thread, and am not sure if Mr Kyle might see that soon. This is a great opportunity, imo, to get the word out to ' old burger fans' in the Indy area....

Believe, can we write up an Indy area letter? While it isn't listed in wiki, Mr. Kyle did have memories of Burger Chef, and their head quarters as well as sani serve. I don't know a whole bunch about sani serve other than they had to do with milk shakes.

Copied from wiki: regarding Mr. Kyles "Indiana memories".
Kyle has memories of Indianapolis as a child, including the Soldiers' and Sailors' Monument, the Woolworth's on the Circle, and the Indiana Theater showing movies in [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinerama"]Cinerama[/ame]. He remembers [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crown_Hill_Cemetery"]Crown Hill Cemetery[/ame], though not its name; the [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Rite_Cathedral"]Scottish Rite Cathedral[/ame]; and the [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_River"]White River[/ame] when "it was mostly just a dumping ground." He also remembers grilled cheese sandwiches for a quarter and glasses of milk for a nickel at the [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_State_Fair"]Indiana State Fair[/ame].

We can toss some of that into a letter, but being from Chicago, and having looked up the soldiers and sailors monument- it's central to downtown Indy, and imo, kind of like visiting Chicago and seeing Buckingham Fountain.... anyone visiting from anywhere around the world would see it.... so I don't put much stock into the monument, unless it can be tied to... some kind of renovation, or something more specific. (Even vandalism, would stand out to locals).


This folks, is our opportunity to get a 'lead in' to some old timers in the Indy area.... Whoever is left, and alive, this salesman JH, would know them.... Because 'families' often know' stuff, is there any more than Mr. Kyle recalls going to Catholic school, two older brothers?

WE can toss in the above from Wiki, as well as the info here about Burger Chef, unless - believe- you can get a bit more from NB? The Clancy 'heirs', I think are as cloe as we are gonna get to the 'burger chef heirs' or those who know them and did business with them.

Let me know what you think. Believe, a letter? posted or pm? Else I'll toss one together myself. Before end of week? Before he forgets who I am and why I called? Let's take the lead while it is 'hot'.

 

[Cubby]

FWIW, I do not think Kyle Clinkscales resembles Mr. Kyle. I don't normally comment on possible matches, but after reading the circumstances behind his disappearance AND that his SS# was used so many years after his disappearance I'll add a comment. It appears that Kyle Clinkscales is a victim of identity theft.

I had thought about that same possibility with Mr. Kyle this weekend. It occured to me, if he was reported missing and local LE FOUND activity on his SS, they would have notified the family he was willingly missing, no? IF that where the case, how would that work? Mr. Kyle is apparently a 'missing person', what if someone has his SS and is currently using it, thus it is believed he is willingly missing when in fact he is not. I would guess if local LE was able to determine that, his case would be closed, right? And I doubt, or don't know, how anyone would research willingly missing persons because their SS is in use so case closed. I wouldn't normally consider that as an option, but with this case being open for 5 years now..... I guess anything is possible.



(above partially posted in the possible match forum.)