7/24/10 - Law professor finds bloody child sock on Black Butte & questions the system

[theissueathand]

Years ago, I lived in an apartment building right across the street from the Sheriff's Dept. Street, not highway. Small street.

Very loud, blood curdling, screams were coming from a house just behind me. Not sounds like a fight. Just this horrible shrieking. The kind that makes your blood run cold. This was usually a quiet area. It was about 11pm.

I didn't have phone service so I ran across the street to the Sheriff's Dept and ran inside to tell them about the screaming. If they had stepped outside, they would have heard it.

They told me it was not their jurisdiction and I would have to call the City Police Dept. Then they pushed the phone across the counter to me. I had to ask them for the phone number to the City Police.

Not long after this event, I learned of an acquaintance's rape in her house by a stranger who assaulted her for 6 hours. She lived in my neighborhood but I don't know exactly where. I always wondered if it was her I heard screaming.

This lawyer's story reminded me of this. It still infuriates me. :furious:


(I did call the City Police from the Sheriff's Dept. Did not ever see a cop around that night and no one came by my apt to ask me any questions)

That is just messed up. It's good to know there is no point to screaming for help these days. Time to arm myself, since apparently I can't count on LE to protect and serve when they are needed most.

 

[Susan10]

Last summer, I came across a lost child wandering in my street - I got someone on their balcony to call 911, and a cop was there within 10 minutes, with no hassles at all - but that was still the longest 10 minutes of my life, since the child was obviously scared out of his wits and unable/unwilling to speak a word. I cannot imagine what it would have been like if we had been given a run around on it.

I understand that funding/staffing is tight, and that there is a lot of weird detritus on streets and trails that might look more alarming than they really are when a child is missing, and possibly murdered... but can LE really take the chance to dismiss such finds? It is increasingly obvious to me that LE has no clue where Kyron is or what really happened to him. I think, at this point, they really can't afford to be so glib on any possible lead. (JMHO)

I am glad this happened to someone who has the ability to express and publicize his frustrating experience. Who knows how many other leads have been tossed away because people were told it was nothing?

I'm not trying to be an alarmist, and I know there's dozens and dozens of false leads out there, but, really, this case has been going on long enough, and it's clear that LE needs to follow every possibility until they know what happened. It's not enough to declare "no other children are in danger" and let this one go cold until the media forgets about it. Kyron is still out there, along with dozens of other missing kids. Passing the buck and treating someone who is trying to help as an idiotic nuisance is not ok, IMO.

I'm glad he wrote this piece, and I am glad you posted it, OG.

oooooo pleez don't leave me hanging! What happened? Did you ever find out? tia

 

[Susan10]

Did they remove someone else's comment besides mine? Or am I just special? Maybe I did get a little out of hand. My apologies to the board.

I was just thinking about how far away missing children are found from where they were originally taken from. Some are taken hundreds of miles away from home.
I feel for the man. Seems like he was truly trying to help. There are so many times when things, no matter how small, are over looked or worse ignored when a child is missing.

I think that I am going to :bangheadn this wall for awhile, maybe that will make me fell better. This is just my :twocents:

My bold above. Exactly! Just because there were no reports about children in or on Black Butte means nothing! Where do they get these clowns? I sometimes think that some of them are more interested in wearing a badge and swaggering than they are fighting and solving crimes.

 

[Elphaba]

I want to hear or at least have some sense of outside confirmation that what this law professor claims really happened, is, as he is telling it. There should be recordings of the 911 calls and records of the stuff that he reported... but as of right now this is just an op-ed piece that is vague on when it happened ("a recent Friday" just doesn't cut it... give us a date) coming from someone that has a resume steeped in criminal defense. (IE: this is the kind of guy you want in your corner to discredit LE if you are ever arrested)

Please understand that I am not discrediting the man's story... but given his background as a criminal attorney, the bizarre amount of screw ups on LE's part that he is claiming: well, a little proof to back his story up isn't much to ask, IMO.

 

[gardeness]

I want to hear or at least have some sense of outside confirmation that what this law professor claims really happened, is, as he is telling it. There should be recordings of the 911 calls and records of the stuff that he reported... but as of right now this is just an op-ed piece that is vague on when it happened ("a recent Friday" just doesn't cut it... give us a date) coming from someone that has a resume steeped in criminal defense. (IE: this is the kind of guy you want in your corner to discredit LE if you are ever arrested)

Please understand that I am not discrediting the man's story... but given his background as a criminal attorney, the bizarre amount of screw ups on LE's part that he is claiming: well, a little proof to back his story up isn't much to ask, IMO.

I thought I read "June 26", but I'll have to go check...

ETA: Yes, here it is: "I was curious to see how long it would take me to get to the top, so like the perfect witness I was about to become, I noted exactly 6:04 a.m., Saturday, June 26, 2010."

 

[WhyaDuck?]

oooooo pleez don't leave me hanging! What happened? Did you ever find out? tia

With the boy I found, you mean? I did indeed check up on him by calling LE the next day, and it seems he'd been reported missing from his house all the way across the city that same day I found him. I am way suspicious that a 5yo could make it across the city on foot without being reported (since there's a freeway between here and there), but he was looked at by a doctor and was declared fine, so I guess he just wandered off by himself, and was safely returned to his parents. Poor little kid.

 

[TxLady2]

There could be a whole lot more to this professor's story than we know. There are usually so many nutcases around who try to insert themselves in these high-profile cases, and many love to create problems for LE because of a mistrust, or possibly a past bad experience, or just for a few minutes of fame.
People will call the tip lines to tell them about a dream they had. Or they've been doing some sleuthing and got "bad vibes" from someone. Or they have a really good theory and want LE to follow it up. Some people have gone so far as to plant "evidence" because they're so sure that somebody is guilty and they want to help. Remember the woman who took trash bags from the Anthony's trash cans? That kind of thing is irresponsible and just crazy. Some will call to ask them if they've done this or that, which is usually something so obvious or routine, it leaves them laughing.
I would probably last about one day having to field all these calls, it's a very tiring job.
Maybe they have checked out this sock and it turned out to be nothing. If so, we would not hear about it. But my guess is, this guy is full of himself and has a bone to pick with law enforcement and is seeking attention. There's a few of them in every case.

 

[Wondergirl]

I pretty much cannot even comprehend the entire contents of the article. There are so many aspects to it that set the alarm bells ringing. :furious::waitasec:

 

[Elphaba]

Thank you gardeness for pointing that out... my brain just grabbed at the "few weeks" aspect. Brain fart, for sure, on my part.

 

[razorback]

There could be a whole lot more to this professor's story than we know. There are usually so many nutcases around who try to insert themselves in these high-profile cases, and many love to create problems for LE because of a mistrust, or possibly a past bad experience, or just for a few minutes of fame.
People will call the tip lines to tell them about a dream they had. Or they've been doing some sleuthing and got "bad vibes" from someone. Or they have a really good theory and want LE to follow it up. Some people have gone so far as to plant "evidence" because they're so sure that somebody is guilty and they want to help. Remember the woman who took trash bags from the Anthony's trash cans? That kind of thing is irresponsible and just crazy. Some will call to ask them if they've done this or that, which is usually something so obvious or routine, it leaves them laughing.
I would probably last about one day having to field all these calls, it's a very tiring job.
Maybe they have checked out this sock and it turned out to be nothing. If so, we would not hear about it. But my guess is, this guy is full of himself and has a bone to pick with law enforcement and is seeking attention. There's a few of them in every case.

I was going to bold every thing that I agreed with, but I agree with everything you said.

Professor = experiment. Let's get a bloody sock and lets see how long it takes LE to respond. I'm sure every police agency in every county and state knows of this case and to suggest that he got the run around from different departments claiming it's not there jurisdiction is absurd. I'm sure LE already knows of this professor and his experiments.

Why is it always a bloody "sock" that is found?

 

[Morag]

I was going to bold every thing that I agreed with, but I agree with everything you said.

Professor = experiment. Let's get a bloody sock and lets see how long it takes LE to respond. I'm sure every police agency in every county and state knows of this case and to suggest that he got the run around from different departments claiming it's not there jurisdiction is absurd. I'm sure LE already knows of this professor and his experiments.

Why is it always a bloody "sock" that is found?

...yet he seemed strangely unknowledgeable regarding jurisdictional issues.

He's an experienced hiker, but he set to hike in a wilderness area with no water and no phone. But he did have something to write with and on.

He knew to pick up the sock with a stick, yet he stuffed it in his pocket where it became contaminated with his lint or other pocket debris. I'm just a humble "acolyte" blushing of a web site, but I know better than to do that.

He failed to mark where he found it, choosing to rely on his memory of where he stood in the woods.

He first thought nothing of it other than 'popped blister', didn't find it unusual to see a sock with blood on it.

He called on a borrowed cell phone, using up the battery of other wilderness hikers, spent more time explaining the battery problem to each agency he spoke with.

The man is about 60 years old, but he seemed to spend most of his time SHOUTING at the various agencies when they couldn't immediately help him.

If he was really interested in getting the information out there, why did he wait a full four weeks to write of his experience?

If he really hoped to help the case, why does he go out of his way to make LE look incompetent or worse?

Even if this sock had evidentiary value, this story makes it into a contaminated product of dubious origin, and a "weapon" of sorts for an eventual trial. (Your Honor, they overlooked valuable blood evidence).

So, in short, a professor of criminal procedure forgot everything he knew about preservation of evidence and jurisdictional overlap. A hiker went out without water or phone. A mature man shouted at those whom he wished to respond to him. A would-be sleuth lost control of his "clue" and waited four weeks to tell about it.

Chances of this sock being Kyron's? Almost nil.
Chances of this guy being a glory-hound? Much greater than almost nil.

JMO

("And why is it always a "bloody" sock that is found?" Because you're more likely to have blood on a sock than on any other piece of clothing, and you're more likely to discard or lose a sock than a blouse or a pair of jeans. And no one is horrified by the sight of a man/woman/child who is sockless. Jean-less or blouse-less- not so much.)

 

[cluciano63]

I believe his story, no reason not to.

As far as tips being called in...the bigger the case, the more the tips. And it is not because people have actual information, it is just that the more media attention a case gets, the more people tend to think they know or have seen something. It must be a nightmare for LE. But for high-priority cases with a possible still-living person, LE should be better organized to take any information.

Also, many "tips" called in to LE tend to be nothing more than opinions as to what could have happened.

 

[ami]

There could be a whole lot more to this professor's story than we know. There are usually so many nutcases around who try to insert themselves in these high-profile cases, and many love to create problems for LE because of a mistrust, or possibly a past bad experience, or just for a few minutes of fame.
People will call the tip lines to tell them about a dream they had. Or they've been doing some sleuthing and got "bad vibes" from someone. Or they have a really good theory and want LE to follow it up. Some people have gone so far as to plant "evidence" because they're so sure that somebody is guilty and they want to help. Remember the woman who took trash bags from the Anthony's trash cans? That kind of thing is irresponsible and just crazy. Some will call to ask them if they've done this or that, which is usually something so obvious or routine, it leaves them laughing.
I would probably last about one day having to field all these calls, it's a very tiring job.
Maybe they have checked out this sock and it turned out to be nothing. If so, we would not hear about it. But my guess is, this guy is full of himself and has a bone to pick with law enforcement and is seeking attention. There's a few of them in every case.

Fair enough, but how do you (they, LE) know the difference at first glance? Sure he could be a cuckoo bananas attention grabber --- or he could be a guy who found a real clue. To me, it didn't sound like they'd even gotten enough info from him to know which one he was. Again, I think bagging the sock and making a brief note would have gone a long way towards covering their a$$ just in case, and pacifying someone who could be an attention seeking weirdo.

 

[ami]

[/SIZE]

("And why is it always a "bloody" sock that is found?" Because you're more likely to have blood on a sock than on any other piece of clothing, and you're more likely to discard or lose a sock than a blouse or a pair of jeans. And no one is horrified by the sight of a man/woman/child who is sockless. Jean-less or blouse-less- not so much.)

RSBM

OKay, but this might also be the article of clothing after shoes that is most likely to come off someone being pulled, carried or dragged.

Anyone can come up with any number of innocent explanations for any article of clothing found somewhere with blood. Someone got their period and used it as a makeshift pad, someone had a nose bleed and used it as a rag, etc etc. There are probably innocent explanations for bloody shirts and gloves and knives and hats.

But exactly what is LE looking for when they tell everyone to be sharp, look around, call them if they find ANYTHING suspicious? Seriously, what are they looking for? Kyron himself, sitting on a bench eating a banana and nothing less? Or just random stuff that can be connected to a child that seems out of place in its environment?

 

[Morag]

RSBM

OKay, but this might also be the article of clothing after shoes that is most likely to come off someone being pulled, carried or dragged.

Anyone can come up with any number of innocent explanations for any article of clothing found somewhere with blood. Someone got their period and used it as a makeshift pad, someone had a nose bleed and used it as a rag, etc etc. There are probably innocent explanations for bloody shirts and gloves and knives and hats.

But exactly what is LE looking for when they tell everyone to be sharp, look around, call them if they find ANYTHING suspicious? Seriously, what are they looking for? Kyron himself, sitting on a bench eating a banana and nothing less? Or just random stuff that can be connected to a child that seems out of place in its environment?

Perhaps it was the lengthy distance from where Kyron disappeared, plus the fact that someone would have had to backpack a bleeding child up the side of a mountain on a frequently-used trail is what led them to discount it. If you're gonna conceal a body, you're not likely to want to hike up a trail with it, meeting curious hikers along the way.

I also think that the professor could have been a little more professorial in his approach to LE. He treated each successive person he spoke with as though they should have known exactly how he had been passed along through the system. I would have driven back to the Portland sheriff's office with the sock if I were of the same mind-set of Dr. Kanter.

 

[Haeve]

O/T, unless you count the media circus and contamination of evidence, but the "bloody sock" reminds me of the [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azaria_Chamberlain_disappearance"]Azaria Chamberlain disappearance[/ame].