7/24/10 - Law professor finds bloody child sock on Black Butte & questions the system

[cluciano63]

Well, maybe LE should not tell the public to keep their eyes open, call in tips, etc...if this is an example how they will be handled. If I happen to be hiking in the Pacfic Northwest anywhere since June 4th, I would be thinking about Kyron and keeping my eyes open. LE has NO idea where Kyron might be. They seem to think he is within Terri's possible range of driving that morning, but they don't know that. Why would anyone believe he is alive in West Virgina but that a sock 150 miles away could not possibly have any significance?

Again, I doubt very much that the sock has any value in Kyron's case, but as a possible tip, it probably beats about 2700 of those called in.

 

[21merc7]

We know DNA testing is backed up everywhere, but evidence can be saved.
From article:
"I was making good time with little effort, and had climbed three-fourths of the way when I saw a bloodied sock in the middle of the well-marked trail. Hiker's popped blister, or rubbed scab I assumed, so I walked on, then thought better of it and stopped and turned back to look more closely. It was definitely a sock, a small one, and there was no mistaking the blood. Not just the secondary rub-off from a scrape. NO, THERE WERE OBVIOUS POOLS OF BLOOD AT VARIOUS POINTS ON THE SOCK!"

http://www.oregonlive.com/opinion/index.ssf/2010/07/web_exclusive_a_bloody_find_an.html

I did not capitalize, just copy and paste.

 

[gardeness]

DNA testing cost money and a lot of states are backed up on testing REAL evidence from known investigations/cases. I don't think LE is going to send over every random piece of clothing or shoe called in by citizens to be tested unless they can show a credible link to a crime or missing persons case.

I'm just surprised how many people here have never seen a random article of clothing or a shoe lying around in the woods or on the side of the road. I see things everyday on the side of the highway; a shirt here, or a shoe there, etc.
LE can't test all of that stuff. Especially a lone sock with a smudge of what could be blood without reason to believe there's some connection to a case.
There's only so much money and man power.

His parents could have it tested themselves...

 

[TxLady2]

Not quite sure what to make of this.
Wonder what would have happened if he had found a body... or a part of a body, like a foot or a hand.
Gee whiz... this sure doesn't make LE look too competent, does it!

 

[i.b.nora]

How did he get the sock out of his pants pocket to show to the other hikers?

 

[ami]

DNA testing cost money and a lot of states are backed up on testing REAL evidence from known investigations/cases. I don't think LE is going to send over every random piece of clothing or shoe called in by citizens to be tested unless they can show a credible link to a crime or missing persons case.

I'm just surprised how many people here have never seen a random article of clothing or a shoe lying around in the woods or on the side of the road. I see things everyday on the side of the highway; a shirt here, or a shoe there, etc.
LE can't test all of that stuff. Especially a lone sock with a smudge of what could be blood without reason to believe there's some connection to a case.
There's only so much money and man power.

They could have bagged it and tagged it. That costs maybe 5 cents.

Also, no one is arguing about a "random article of clothing or shoe on the side of the road", as you wrote, but a child's bloody sock in the middle of an otherwise deserted hiking trail.

I'm just glad to read there are people out there who are willing to take the chance that they'll look stupid or alarmist if there's even the slightest chance it could help a child.

 

[Day Dreamer]

... from where Kyron was last seen. If I found a bloody sock in my yard, out by the road, I would just toss it in the trash. I'll bet there are bloody socks in many locations closer to Skyline School. I think this guy was just trying to insert himself into the story. Hikers get bloody blisters. A bloody shirt or trousers, that's a little more meaningful. But a bloody sock- I'll bet I can find one in my son's room right now. I can understand why the local cops weren't interested in what this publicity hound had to say.

Seriously??? :waitasec: You would not find it one bit suspicious? Not necessarily related to Kyron; but, if I found a bloody sock I would immediately call LE because you never know. We are pretty active outdoors. We often go to a close national state park where many people hike, fish, picnic, play in streams, etc. I have NEVER found a bloody sock! We also have kids that play sports. I have NEVER found any kind of bloody clothing at the ball park ... plenty of skinned knees and band aids; but, no bloody sock or anything else.

What I took from the article was that this sock had a lot of fresh blood on it not just traces from a scraped knee or what not.

From the article ...

I was making good time with little effort, and had climbed three-fourths of the way when I saw a bloodied sock in the middle of the well-marked trail. Hiker's popped blister, or rubbed scab I assumed, so I walked on, then thought better of it and stopped and turned back to look more closely. It was definitely a sock, a small one, and there was no mistaking the blood. Not just the secondary rub-off from a scrape. NO, THERE WERE OBVIOUS POOLS OF BLOOD AT VARIOUS POINTS ON THE SOCK!

Now, this guy called 911. How in the world did he reach a 911 that would tell him it was not their county?? Seriously?? What is the point of 911?? The operators weren't trained well enough to transfer to the proper department?

LE should have immediately responded to the area, examined the evidence, and checked the surroundings to make sure there wasn't someone in desperate need of help or dead, especially if it was fresh! I wonder if we will be hearing that a body has been found in the coming months or even years in that area that the sock could have been linked to??

So what if it was over 100 miles from where Kyron disappeared. I would wager to say that A LOT of kidnapped / missing / murdered people are disposed of a great distance from their abduction. Wouldn't that be the first thought of a suspect ... you know, to limit the chances of getting caught and the body, if found, being identified???

I'm guessing this sock got tossed. I hope I am wrong; but, I doubt it. I also could not believe the Trooper sent by the governor would step down on a jurisdiction issue! I wonder what the governor thought of all of this. Surely he checked back to see what happened?? Did the trooper contact their supervisor to contact the governor?

I went back to my cabin, where I had a voice mail from an official with the state police (apparently contacted by my friend in the governor's office). I called back and told him the story. He was appalled and said that he was going to find a state trooper and send him out to meet me.

"Couldn't you just get the local cops to do their job?," I asked.

"No, I am going to send someone out."

Promptly at 11, I will give him that, the local deputy arrived at my cabin, and not two minutes later the state trooper pulled up. One look at the state trooper discomfited the local cop, and prompted a polite but tense jurisdictional dispute. The state trooper announced he was going to take the sock to the state crime lab for analysis, but the local officer pulled jurisdictional rank and talked him off the scene. The trooper got back into his car and left. Just me and the local officer now.

I'm sorry, I am just appalled by this. Un - freakin - believable!!! :banghead:

ETA: This probably does not have anything to do w/ Kyron; but, what if there is another child or small adult missing that it could belong to???

ETA#2: I just wanted to make it clear that I was not attacking you Morag. I just wanted to be clear on why you would not find it suspicious. The rest of my post was just outrage at the lack of concern from LE.

 

[SmoothOperator]

I want to know what happened with the sock? .. This is so infuriating but however I am not shocked in the least... This is what is going on around our country in small town USA and even the bright lights of the big cities... Its more than upsetting, but the ball is dropped in more cases than you could ever even imagine..

I live in a very nice suburb of a well known large city and have several family and close family friends that are in LE ranging from patrol cop to Captain of the force. My sisters home was burglarized in the middle of the day, Thank God while she was at work.(she is single and lives alone), She had JUST moved in the home, didnt know any of her neighbors and the thieves brazenly backed a full size moving truck up into her carport and took their time "cleaning her out" INCLUDING HER CHRISTMAS TREE AND GIFTS. While burglarizing her home they went into her bar, opened a brand new bottle of Vox vodka, took two nice crystal glasses from the bar and proceeded to drink the entire bottle as they finished up their job. Left the empty bottle and crystal glasses setting on the bar... Of all the things that were stolen (which include brand new front load washer/dryer, new fridge&appliances, along with brand new flatscreens, etc etc) but the one thing that was most bothersome and disturbing was that they stole all of underwear from her "dirty" clothes hamper, can you say more than disgusting and disturbing?
This lead me to believe that it could possibly an RSO or SO that we were dealing with and them knowing she lived alone made her and us even more fearful(they obviously knew her schedule to be so lax as to take their time enjoying her vodka as they robbed her)..
To make a very long story short, what do you guess happened?

Yes, of course they could have cared less LE refusing to even so much as dust for prints(hello? the guys drank from the crystal glasses at her bar)... Thank God fo knowing ppl in LE because had we not that crime would have gone completely by the wayside and thats per a LE that works our area, he said had we not "known" the "right" ppl that the case would have been filed away never to be given another thought, ever! That they would NOT have pursued these criminals any, none whatsoever! EVER!

Again Thank God for knowing someone because just as was suspected it was an RSO with a rap sheet a mile long, rape, attempted rape, aggravated rape, many burglaries, agg. burglaries, and life long drug convictions. The man should have never ever ever been on the streets to have had the op to burglarize my sister. This man had received time after time slaps on the wrist... IT IS UNACCEPTABLE!!!!

SOMETHING MUST BE DONE, WE CANNOT SIT BACK AND ALLOW THESE INJUSTICES AND "NO CARE" ATTITUDES FROM THOSE THAT HAVE TAKEN AN OATH TO UPHOLD THE LAW AND PROTECT ITS CITIZENS!!!!

I DEMAND TO KNOW WHAT BECAME OF THIS SOCK! And shame on the commenters (just want to clarify that I am speaking of the commenters of the Oregonlive website[the comments under the story])that are bashing this prof. for standing up against the "slackers" and demanding ppl DO THEIR JOBS!
Hopefully now that this is in the media there will be an op to find out what became of this sock and if by chance it is still around it be seen that it is "tested"!
I realize more than likely it is not involved with Kyron's case(but I have heard of much stranger, infact in this case there HAS BEEN MUCH STRANGER THAT HAS COME TO LIGHT) so, no matter I want it tested and to know what the results are, if nothing, then I'll be relieved that it wasn't Kyron's or another little missing childs sock, but until its tested WE DONT KNOW!

 

[mysticrose]

Just a question: Is this the Black Butte area outside of Roseburg?

I dont know if it is or not but if it is, it is only 45 mile from Roseburg.....

 

[Calliope]

Can you imagine the outrage if it became known that this man had found a small bloody sock and never reported it to the police?

Why, he might even be threatened with a civil action!

 

[Calliope]

I dont know if it is or not but if it is, it is only 45 mile from Roseburg.....

I'd like to see the area mapped as to how far it is from ALL points in this case. Skyline/Horman's, Roseburg, Medford, Eugene, [Dede's home/the town that starts with a T].

 

[SmoothOperator]

How did he get the sock out of his pants pocket to show to the other hikers?

I dont understand your question, "how did he get the sock out of his front pocket to show the other hikers?"...
Im confused, did I miss something? .. Because of course the obvious answer would be that he pulled it out of his front pocket to show the other hikers.. So, I must have missed something that would make the obvious answer not be plausible... Ok, so Im curious, what?

 

[Kimster]

There are some passionate posts here but we still need to remember that we can disagree with a post, but we can't belittle a poster's opinion. Please refrain from the word "you" when responding and things will run a lot better.

BTW, I can't imagine this sock having to do with Kyron. It is quite remote. However, I would hope that anything that appears to have human blood on it would be checked out by local law enforcement. JMO

 

[Morag]

I'd like to see the area mapped as to how far it is from ALL points in this case. Skyline/Horman's, Roseburg, Medford, Eugene, [Dede's home/the town that starts with a T].

...both Skyline and Roseburg are about 160 miles from the town of Sisters, where the professor had his tire fixed. Tualatin is about 140, Medford about 190, and Eugene about 94.

 

[Day Dreamer]

DNA testing cost money and a lot of states are backed up on testing REAL evidence from known investigations/cases. I don't think LE is going to send over every random piece of clothing or shoe called in by citizens to be tested unless they can show a credible link to a crime or missing persons case.

I'm just surprised how many people here have never seen a random article of clothing or a shoe lying around in the woods or on the side of the road. I see things everyday on the side of the highway; a shirt here, or a shoe there, etc.
LE can't test all of that stuff. Especially a lone sock with a smudge of what could be blood without reason to believe there's some connection to a case.
There's only so much money and man power.

I don't necessarily think it should have been tested. I would like for it to have been; but, I do understand the costs and back log at labs. Would it have been so hard to bag it and put it in an evidence locker w/ info just in case something came up later on?

 

[LadyL]

frustrating experience

newsworthy? idk ... might make him wanna run for office so he can help change the system someday

 

[i.b.nora]

I dont understand your question, "how did he get the sock out of his front pocket to show the other hikers?"...
Im confused, did I miss something? .. Because of course the obvious answer would be that he pulled it out of his front pocket to show the other hikers.. So, I must have missed something that would make the obvious answer not be plausible... Ok, so Im curious, what?

His story says:

"Adrenalized, I poked up the sock on the end of a stick and shoved it into my front jean pocket. 6:45 a.m. That and a visual note of the vantage point overlooking the meadow at Black Butte Ranch from elevation would serve as sufficient markers if I needed to be able to identify the spot of my find. I continued my way up the trail, presuming I would run into the occupant of the other car, probably at the top, and a logical explanation would allay my concerns.

I surveyed the top of the butte. No one was around. I headed back down. Two-thirds of the way down, I intersected a couple climbing up. They hadn't seen anyone else on the trail, and they confirmed that the mystery car was still parked below in the same spot. I showed them the sock, and asked to borrow their cell phone since I did not have one."

I guess my point is, when he talked about poking the sock on the end of a stick, I took it to mean that he didn't touch it. And yet, to show it to the couple, it seems that he would have needed to touch it to get it out of his pocket. So, I don't understand why he is handling the sock. Especially, if he thinks it is involved in some high profile crime. That's all.

He wrote an entry on 'kidnapping' in the Encyclopedia of Crime and Justice, Volume 3, 1983.

 

[darlin gal]

What disturbs me is that when Kyron went missing, they showed us replicas of his clothing....including his small socks he was wearing. Clearly MCSO thought socks might be a potential "clue" if found.

This gentleman not only found a small sock but a small bloody sock (along with the strange parked car) and it set off his hinky meter, so he did what MCSO asked him to do...call the police.

That he wasn't taken seriously and given the run-around when their is a small child missing and being searched for...makes me angry. Even if it turned out to be not related to Kyron, it was still worth "investigating".

 

[yosande]

A bloody find on Black Butte and a broken system

On a recent Friday afternoon, I drove south out of Portland, headed for the soul-restoring Santiam Pass to my cabin on the Metolius River in Camp Sherman. It had been a busy workday, the day following our wedding anniversary, and the glorious Central Oregon night, with a huge moon and countless crystal stars in a clear sky, was all I'd hoped for.

Little did I know that in the next 24 hours, a routine morning hike and the discovery of a bloody sock on the trailhead would lead me into a tangle of bureaucratic bungling and jurisdictional disputes and the realization that a citizen trying to do the right thing can be thwarted by broken, dysfunctional systems.

Indeed, truth is stranger and sometimes more disturbing than fiction.

(snipped)
http://www.oregonlive.com/opinion/index.ssf/2010/07/web_exclusive_a_bloody_find_an.html

moral of the story; if you find something suspicious, mark the spot, then take the evidence directly to the state police.

 

[Day Dreamer]

LE always encourages people to call in all tips no matter how small because the tip could be the missing piece they need to solve a case. That has been repeatedly stated by LE in Kyron's case.

So, with this response (or lack there of) to this tip I have to wonder how many others have been ignored? How many other people won't call in their tips due to such reactions?? Very serious problem here in my eyes.