7 Yr Old Suspended

[angelmom]

You think they read here?

No, I think they didn't like the public outcry and the media making them look like a bunch of idiots. Which was probably well represented here.

As more and more laws are passed giving parents some freedom in choosing their child's public school, and as everyone's home values depend to a certain degree on the quality of the local schools, I believe there is more pressure than ever for public schools to present a positive public presence and not embarrass the entire community with stunts like this.

 

[miimaa]

Why couldn't the principal confiscate the knife/fork/spoon for the remainder of the school year? Tell the kid his parents can get it the last day of school and he can't bring things like that to school. End of problem.

We could smoke when I was in high school, just not on school grounds so we stood across the street. No one ever got into trouble for that and no one got burned or stabbed or anything else bad.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Why couldn't the principal confiscate the knife/fork/spoon for the remainder of the school year? Tell the kid his parents can get it the last day of school and he can't bring things like that to school. End of problem.

We could smoke when I was in high school, just not on school grounds so we stood across the street. No one ever got into trouble for that and no one got burned or stabbed or anything else bad.

We had a designated smoking area at school!

 

[miimaa]

We had a designated smoking area at school!

None of my classmates became serial killers or anything else bad. Pretty much all hard working family people. But then if the principal disciplined you -- you hoped he didn't send a letter to your parents because you'd get he!! at home for causing trouble in school. Our school rules were reasonable though and our principal used sound judgement and common sense. Kids received one after school detention for skipping school and only out-of-school suspension for fighting. We didn't have any bigger problems than that. A few girls got pregnant and I recall it was scandalous at the time. There was no such thing as shooting up the school and everyone had guns. Northern Minn where deer hunting is as important as Christmas.

 

[Miss_Scarlett]

snipped....

The news reports make it look like an absurd case. What is failing to come to light is that, the camping "tool" is really a Victorinox (aka Swiss Army) type folding knife that happens to have a fork and spoon on it!

It wasn't just a fork or spoon. Its a folding knife. Clear and simple.

The stupid parents should be, once again, to blame for letting their child bring a knife to school.

YES IT WAS A KNIFE!!!

I do think that the punishment was too severe for the case, but that he needed to understand he still has to follow the rules. And you are correct that it was a pocket knife, which happened to have a spoon and fork. There was also a corkscrew bottle opener in it. It would not be far-fetched to think that children might get excited over it and try to grab it from each other and someone would get hurt, which is much more unlikely with scissors everyone has. And I'd like to think that most parents would control the access to a pocket knife for a child that age. I don't let my son take small toys to school because it's against the rules. I guess he could slip in a small one without me looking, but I'll be keeping any pocket knives hidden until he's allowed to use them. Hope that will work!

 

[OrdinaryLife]

I find it so very disturbing when adult common sense is not used. This is not about Zero Tolerance, but about people we entrust, as role models, with our children. Yet again, another school "event" blown beyond reasonable proportion. By a teacher. Absolutely ridiculous!

A child brings something to school, as this seven year old did, because of the sheer excitement of being a Scout with a multi use utensil. Call me crazy, but as an adult, all I would have done is take him aside. Share with him how happy I was that he owned such an item, but it should have stayed home. Ask for it, call the parents, share the story, and move on. No trauma, no "record" for a seven year old (good grief), and life goes on as it should.

I cannot believe this ever had to happen the way it did. Unbelievable....

 

[Miss_Scarlett]

I agree, but while people have written on other sites that this is not a black and white issue I think that literal black and white has a lot to do with it. How does a school system not punish a "cute" white boy, but then send a black boy to reform school, which I can totally see happening. For full disclosure, I am white, but I know that white people where I live feel this way. I think that has a lot to do with it even though no one seems to be saying it anywhere.

 

[OrdinaryLife]

I agree, but while people have written on other sites that this is not a black and white issue I think that literal black and white has a lot to do with it. How does a school system not punish a "cute" white boy, but then send a black boy to reform school, which I can totally see happening. For full disclosure, I am white, but I know that white people where I live feel this way. I think that has a lot to do with it even though no one seems to be saying it anywhere.

Where/why does race even come into a story like this? I'm sorry, but I have no idea where this is coming from. This is about this seven year old, Z-T gone beyond common adult sense. :waitasec:

 

[RainbowsAndGumdrops]

If he had been a troubled child I can see where this would be an issue. Listen to me school board: HE'S A seven year BOY SCOUT for goodness sakes! </p>

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you can join cub scouts til you are 8 years old. He was a boy with a scout utensil. Besides, being a boy scout doesn't make you an angel. I've known plenty of scouts that are terrors.Now, back to the topic. The boy knew he broke the rule and should be punished (whether breaking the rule was intentional or unintentional). I don't see any problem with giving a kid a punishment for breaking the rules. The problem is how extreme the punishment was (and perhaps some ambiguity in the rules).

 

[mycroft]

Clearly the punishment is absurd even if they felt compelled to take away the item.
The rule is no deterrent if a seven year old has no idea that a fork is a potential weapon.

What I don't understand is how this school gets anything done without potential weapons on the premises. What do the kids eat lunch with? Are they writing out their assignments in finger paint? No rulers? No wooden blocks? No ball bats? No jump rope?

They should consider what absurd application of the rules and excessive punishment is teaching the kids about the responsible exercise of authority. It does the school no service to teach kids that those who break the rules won't be meted out a punishment that's fair and proportionate to the offense. Maybe they should focus on some of the unpunished bullying problems in the schools that lead to violence rather than the dinnerware.

 

[southcitymom]

We had a designated smoking area at school!

So did we - the Senior Hut!

 

[southcitymom]

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you can join cub scouts til you are 8 years old. He was a boy with a scout utensil. Besides, being a boy scout doesn't make you an angel. I've known plenty of scouts that are terrors.Now, back to the topic. The boy knew he broke the rule and should be punished (whether breaking the rule was intentional or unintentional). I don't see any problem with giving a kid a punishment for breaking the rules. The problem is how extreme the punishment was (and perhaps some ambiguity in the rules).

Cub Scouts starts in first grade when many children are 6. My son started Cub Scouts at 6.

 

[chemcopout]

why would they put a 7 yr old baby in reform school with trouble delinquents? you would think it would be traumatizing for the 7 yr old

 

[Miss_Scarlett]

Where/why does race even come into a story like this? I'm sorry, but I have no idea where this is coming from. This is about this seven year old, Z-T gone beyond common adult sense. :waitasec:

Race would definitely be a factor where we live, even if implied. A cute, white boy in cub scouts, oh, well, he didn't mean anything by taking that toy to school. But a black boy from the projects? Oh, yes, they would jump all over that. So, I think that the schools' hands are tied in a way, even if the first boy, who happens to be white, really wasn't a disciplinary problem and the second boy, who happens to be black, was a disciplinary problem. Because where do you draw the line? And where would bias get into this equation without across the board rules, although I think this one for children this age is excessive. It's sad, but a true problem where we live.

 

[OrdinaryLife]

Honestly, I am not going to add to a story of a seven year old with the debate of what if this child was of a different color. Because that is not the story here. I never even looked at the pictures of this child because it never mattered to me. Sorry some live in an area where that is the first thing that comes to mind. A child is a child is a child.....

People over reacted to this as far as I'm concerned.

 

[oh_gal]

Honestly, I am not going to add to a story of a seven year old with the debate of what if this child was of a different color. Because that is not the story here. I never even looked at the pictures of this child because it never mattered to me. Sorry some live in an area where that is the first thing that comes to mind. A child is a child is a child.....

People over reacted to this as far as I'm concerned.

(above text colored by me)
I totally agree.

 

[Miss_Scarlett]

Honestly, I am not going to add to a story of a seven year old with the debate of what if this child was of a different color. Because that is not the story here. I never even looked at the pictures of this child because it never mattered to me. Sorry some live in an area where that is the first thing that comes to mind. A child is a child is a child.....

People over reacted to this as far as I'm concerned.

I don't know where you two live, but where we live it definitely is an issue when it comes to these rules. Our society is not color-blind. And people here do not think a child is a child is a child. I'm not saying that it should be that way, but that it is. To deny that would be to deny that racism exists. We don't even mete out the death penalty in a color-blind way. Doesn't matter the color of the criminal as much as the color of the victim. Or what about which women and children get the most attention in the media when they go missing or are killed? Many people in this society value people from "good" families and neighborhoods as more worthy of respect. My husband just brought up a situation in our city where previously a child (white, of course, at this particular school) made A BOMB and they did very little to him. Yet, a little black girl (yes, that matters) in public school was suspended because she took a wallet with a "chain" to hook it onto her clothes or backpack (like a Hello Kitty kind of thing, not a Hell's Angels wallet) that was maybe three inches long. But... it violated the rule against chains. Oh, please. Ridiculous. Yet, a bomb?! Of course, he was probably bound for MIT and it was an "experiment" to him, so they did little.

 

[Miss_Scarlett]

I'm reading about some of these cases and thinking we really are going to have to send our son to private school. This stuff is just crazy. I can't believe I'd have to worry about what's in our son's lip balm or he might get suspended! And on one site I saw a women who wrote that her son was trying to get in somewhere like West Point (presumably he is a good student or would not be trying), but years ago he had a "weapons charge" on his record for some sort of nonsense like this. And you know the real problem students are usually the ones smart enough to hide their real weapons. Not a kid who takes a plastic knife to school. I had no idea a plastic knife was not allowed. I wouldn't have sent a butter knife even, but a plastic knife that comes in a set I wouldn't have though twice about. Gee, don't we have enough to do when it comes to teaching our children? Of course, these schools are just teaching towards the tests, so what's the point?

 

[angelmom]

I heard a portion of an interview with Zachary's father this evening. He seemed articulate and reasonable.

I think it is very telling that this nice little respectable boy who made a mistake came from a father who says he does not blame the administration for this issue. He says they were very apologetic, but their hands were tied by the zero tolerance rules which, in this county but NO OTHER county in DE, the minimum punishment is 45 days in the alternative school. It's the first thing...not detention or ISS or a one day suspension, but 45 days at the alternative school.

And while he said it wasn't as bad as "reform school" as I tend to think of it, there were kids at that school who made actual threats against other children or teachers and who did bring an actual weapon to school to use or threaten with as a weapon.

He says they blame the people who wrote the policy for not being able to anticipate a situation that called for a lesser punishment, even though every other school district in his state has a different policy. And that, as soon as they Zachary back to his routine, they hope to work to change the policy.

He said the decision was changed and the rule rewritten specifically because of the outcry, and right now the changes are only valid for 1st and 2nd graders. Which is a shame, because I can easily see a 2nd grader, 7-8 years old, making a similar mistake.

I'm glad he isn't ranting and raving about how he's gonna sue someone over this and how it's discrimination against Cub Scouts or whatever. It's refreshing for someone to see a problem, understand how the situation happened, and work to change it so that the next child doesn't suffer.

 

[OrdinaryLife]

I don't know where you two live, but where we live it definitely is an issue when it comes to these rules. Our society is not color-blind. And people here do not think a child is a child is a child. I'm not saying that it should be that way, but that it is. To deny that would be to deny that racism exists. We don't even mete out the death penalty in a color-blind way. Doesn't matter the color of the criminal as much as the color of the victim. Or what about which women and children get the most attention in the media when they go missing or are killed? Many people in this society value people from "good" families and neighborhoods as more worthy of respect. My husband just brought up a situation in our city where previously a child (white, of course, at this particular school) made A BOMB and they did very little to him. Yet, a little black girl (yes, that matters) in public school was suspended because she took a wallet with a "chain" to hook it onto her clothes or backpack (like a Hello Kitty kind of thing, not a Hell's Angels wallet) that was maybe three inches long. But... it violated the rule against chains. Oh, please. Ridiculous. Yet, a bomb?! Of course, he was probably bound for MIT and it was an "experiment" to him, so they did little.

With great respect, I think a discussion regarding racial judgements should be another topic. It doesn't here, imvho....