8 Die in Crash on Taconic State Parkway #2

[twinkiesmom]

She threw up a couple of times. If she was a drinker I don't think she would throw up.

In the stupor stage of intoxication, vomiting is one of the symptoms. The body wants to avoid going unconscious/into a coma. Alcoholics have a range of tolerance levels, but alcohol is fatal at a high BAC even for a seasoned drinker. It's clear that Diane's last drink was a binge, and even after vomiting she reloaded...I think her BAC was very dynamic during the vomiting and reloading and was much higher than her final 0.19 when she was parked at the rest stop and having trouble seeing. The blurry vision is another sign that her neurological system was severely impaired due to high BAC.

You may be right that she did this intentionally...we just don't know her exact state of mind.

Even a drunk person would put on the brakes (sometimes to often) because it is a reflex.

Not if she was in a blackout.

If she had been an alcoholic and needed to drink on the road with children aboard, how did she hold down a job that she had for any length of time? She would have to drink on the job, which no one said she did.

It's common for women to hide their drinking until the problem escalates until it cannot be hidden from anyone. It's entirely possible for someone's first DUI to be their last DUI. If Diane had drank the bottle of alcohol at the campsite rather than out on the road, she could have gone into rehab without our knowing she existed.

You brought up her mother...Since Diane was a "control freak" and tightly wound, it's possible she was losing control of one of the pieces of her life prior to deciding to drink that vodka. It's also possible that her main issue was losing control of the careful division of her life between the sober side and the pot and alcohol-fueled one.

I do think the possibility of seeing her mother at that recital could have been a trigger. She could have seen the handwriting on the wall that with her mother attending recitals that she would be unable to avoid her mother at major kid events like First Communions or graduations. If the crash hadn't have happened, I think there would have been a major family split over inclusion of the grandmother. Speculating, but maybe Diane was afraid she wouldn't be chosen in a "her or me" scenario...keeping Grandma and Diane apart would require cooperation of the entire family, and it doesn't sound like that's what they wanted.

It's also possible she was losing control of Danny or that she couldn't keep up the perfect family front any longer.

 

[Nova]

Above snipped and bbm:

I think you're lucky- I know families where this exact thing, differing responses, has caused extreme hostility and even a break in sibling relationships...

But a suicide in conjunction with the murders of nieces and nephews? I'm not saying that has never happened--no doubt somebody will find an example--just that surely it's rare.

And I didn't mean to hijack this thread with too much personal information. My point was only that parental abandonment is all too common in a society with a 50% divorce rate.

Diane's mother walked out 27 years before the crash on the Taconic. Is it possible that abandonment was a factor in Diane's drinking on the morning of her death? Yes.

But IMHO it's even more likely that we are making a bigger deal of it because the departure of her mother is one of the few things we know about Diane Schuler.

 

[rpd113]

But a suicide in conjunction with the murders of nieces and nephews?

I too find this troubling. But whether it was intentional or an accident, rage or recklessness, she was pretty clearly not in her right mind.

 

[RSorensen]

And I didn't mean to hijack this thread with too much personal information. My point was only that parental abandonment is all too common in a society with a 50% divorce rate.

Diane's mother walked out 27 years before the crash on the Taconic. Is it possible that abandonment was a factor in Diane's drinking on the morning of her death? Yes.

But IMHO it's even more likely that we are making a bigger deal of it because the departure of her mother is one of the few things we know about Diane Schuler.

Thank you Nova for another helpful post. I only have one concern with it and that is the use of the word "abandonment". We really don't know all the circumstances surrounding the departure of Diane's mother from the home. When there is a divorce, someone leaves and it isn't always abandonment. Most people, when they split from their spouses, don't just get up one morning, pack, and take off. It is always much more complicated than that.

I wonder if, in the face of a terrible tragedy like this, we simplify things too much and make judgments without knowledge, in order to fit all the pegs into all the holes. I have a very close friend who split with her husband many years ago and decided after a lot of thought and counseling - and PAIN - to leave the kids, at least initially, with her husband. She did not feel that psychologically she would be able to provide them with the better home. She was in constant touch, visited, had them visit her, etc. - many of the things that parents who leave the home - men and women - do on a regular basis. But, some of her relatives criticized her terribly without knowing the facts. Not everyone is selfish...some people are actually selfless when they leave. Regardless, Diane's mother leaving could have played into all of this but I am very doubtful that is was the major factor. Finally, I think you make an excellent point when you point out that her mother leaving is one of the few things we know about her and her life. We should all think about ourselves. How would we feel if one event in our lives was used as a barometer as to who we are simply because people didn't know much else about us. I don't think any of us would like that.

I appreciated your use of IMHO, NOVA. Diane may have had a lot of problems, but we don't know what caused this and perhaps we should at least begin framing things as "I think" or "in my opinion" a little bit more. Some of the absolute declarations we see here are not based on any personal knowledge of these families or for that matter of this case. Perhaps we should all take a breath and tone down our rhetoric a bit and at least acknowledge that our comments are, as you say, "in our humble opinion".

 

[RSorensen]

But weren't the reports that no one even saw Diane at the campground until Sunday morning?

Interesting in and of itself.

I had not heard this, but I do believe that she took a number of photos including one of all the kids smiling, on Saturday. Does someone know the answer to this?

 

[BuzzieCat]

Not saying this applies to Diane or that I think for sure she purposely killed herself and the children - I vacillate back and forth in my opinion on that - but here is an example of an aunt killing a niece and a nephew. She walked the children, 4 and 5 years old, out into traffic. She had been acting strange earlier in the evening but the police officer involved didn't detain her. She'd had a bout with bipolar disorder months earlier, but her family thought she was doing well. They sued the hospital for not being more vigilant with their treatment of her.

http://www.wickedlocal.com/bellingham/news/x469085633#axzz1XZW5aFbG

I found another case where a schizophrenic man who had been awake for days shot his young niece and nephew also. Another man jumped into the water with his young niece and they both drowned. Horrible cases all.

 

[twinkiesmom]

Diane's mother walked out 27 years before the crash on the Taconic. Is it possible that abandonment was a factor in Diane's drinking on the morning of her death? Yes.

But IMHO it's even more likely that we are making a bigger deal of it because the departure of her mother is one of the few things we know about Diane Schuler.

I don't think you can minimize the significance of a permanently fractured mother-daughter relationship....particularly when we are questioning the actions of Diane as a mother herself and acting in loco parentis for her nieces.

 

[Nova]

[/B]

Thank you Nova for another helpful post. I only have one concern with it and that is the use of the word "abandonment". We really don't know all the circumstances surrounding the departure of Diane's mother from the home. When there is a divorce, someone leaves and it isn't always abandonment. Most people, when they split from their spouses, don't just get up one morning, pack, and take off. It is always much more complicated than that.

I wonder if, in the face of a terrible tragedy like this, we simplify things too much and make judgments without knowledge, in order to fit all the pegs into all the holes. I have a very close friend who split with her husband many years ago and decided after a lot of thought and counseling - and PAIN - to leave the kids, at least initially, with her husband. She did not feel that psychologically she would be able to provide them with the better home. She was in constant touch, visited, had them visit her, etc. - many of the things that parents who leave the home - men and women - do on a regular basis. But, some of her relatives criticized her terribly without knowing the facts. Not everyone is selfish...some people are actually selfless when they leave. Regardless, Diane's mother leaving could have played into all of this but I am very doubtful that is was the major factor. Finally, I think you make an excellent point when you point out that her mother leaving is one of the few things we know about her and her life. We should all think about ourselves. How would we feel if one event in our lives was used as a barometer as to who we are simply because people didn't know much else about us. I don't think any of us would like that.

I appreciated your use of IMHO, NOVA. Diane may have had a lot of problems, but we don't know what caused this and perhaps we should at least begin framing things as "I think" or "in my opinion" a little bit more. Some of the absolute declarations we see here are not based on any personal knowledge of these families or for that matter of this case. Perhaps we should all take a breath and tone down our rhetoric a bit and at least acknowledge that our comments are, as you say, "in our humble opinion".

Well said. I wasn't judging Diane's mother, just trying to be relatively brief. I know that marriages end for all sorts of reasons. As a rule, I don't think anyone benefits from a parent who stays home and stays miserable "for the sake of the children."

 

[Nova]

I don't think you can minimize the significance of a permanently fractured mother-daughter relationship....particularly when we are questioning the actions of Diane as a mother herself and acting in loco parentis for her nieces.

I don't believe I minimized the impact. I'm merely cautioning us all that when we only have a few pieces of information, those pieces may loom larger to us than they did to the principals of the case.

Frankly, I think the idea that Diane was a secret, chronic drinker makes more sense than that she heard her mother mentioned and suddenly decided to kill five children. Of course, the latter remains a possibility.

Obviousy, we'd all like to know what else was said during that disoriented call to her brother.

 

[twinkiesmom]

I don't believe I minimized the impact.

I wasn't referring to you personally...:blowkiss:

Just strongly believe that the loss of her mother fueled who she was.

I personally knew someone exactly like this....The searing disappointment in who her mother was pushed her to be perfect. She succeeded to extremes in the workplace at great personal cost. "Control freak" doesn't even begin to describe this woman. Human tsunami is more like it. We just buried her a few months ago...She didn't drink but the 12-hour days caught up with her. Like Diane, she didn't acknowledge her mother's existence...like Diane, she didn't take care of her personal health.

 

[Peazzzer]

JMO, Diane may have taken xanax in the morning sometime, they seem to be available just like after dinner mints. From my own experience w a freind that drank vodka to the BAC of .5, not .05, then dropped 90 xanax in a suicide attempt. When the BAC was done, the xanax didnt show up at all in tests. Xanax is only off 1 chemical, molecule(not sure of the term) from alcohol. They are so fast acting it was almost as if the alcohol absorbed them faster. Mixing xanax and alcohol does make people sick to the stomach and most do puke. . My freind was called in to the police as suicidal, was driving home when pulled over, and never had a moving violation. She is an alcoholic, her freinds didnt even know she had been drinking at all that day, she drank a 5th of absolute and 1 and a half pints of it as well. . Imo, Diane was a closet drunk but a functioning closet drunk. More than one person in her family knows it too but wont want the culpability of admitting it.

 

[Nova]

I wasn't referring to you personally...:blowkiss:

Just strongly believe that the loss of her mother fueled who she was.

I personally knew someone exactly like this....The searing disappointment in who her mother was pushed her to be perfect. She succeeded to extremes in the workplace at great personal cost. "Control freak" doesn't even begin to describe this woman. Human tsunami is more like it. We just buried her a few months ago...She didn't drink but the 12-hour days caught up with her. Like Diane, she didn't acknowledge her mother's existence...like Diane, she didn't take care of her personal health.

I'm very sorry about the loss of your friend.

See, now THAT makes more sense to me in terms of her mother's influence. I certainly wasn't saying it had no impact (no more than I was saying my father's departure had no influence on us).

It's the theories that have Diane suddenly getting so upset over her mother that after 27 years she suddenly and deliberately decides to kill five children. Not impossible, certainly, but I rather doubt it.

 

[Nova]

JMO, Diane may have taken xanax in the morning sometime, they seem to be available just like after dinner mints. From my own experience w a freind that drank vodka to the BAC of .5, not .05, then dropped 90 xanax in a suicide attempt. When the BAC was done, the xanax didnt show up at all in tests. Xanax is only off 1 chemical, molecule(not sure of the term) from alcohol. They are so fast acting it was almost as if the alcohol absorbed them faster. Mixing xanax and alcohol does make people sick to the stomach and most do puke. . My freind was called in to the police as suicidal, was driving home when pulled over, and never had a moving violation. She is an alcoholic, her freinds didnt even know she had been drinking at all that day, she drank a 5th of absolute and 1 and a half pints of it as well. . Imo, Diane was a closet drunk but a functioning closet drunk. More than one person in her family knows it too but wont want the culpability of admitting it.

Is this all one event you are describing? Your friend had a fifth of Absolute plus one and a half pints plus she took 90 xanax and lived?!

(BTW, xanax is a controlled substance in California and subject to all sorts of restrictions. But, yes, if you have the right kind of doctor, you can get them.)

 

[RSorensen]

JMO, Diane may have taken xanax in the morning sometime, they seem to be available just like after dinner mints. From my own experience w a freind that drank vodka to the BAC of .5, not .05, then dropped 90 xanax in a suicide attempt. When the BAC was done, the xanax didnt show up at all in tests. Xanax is only off 1 chemical, molecule(not sure of the term) from alcohol. They are so fast acting it was almost as if the alcohol absorbed them faster. Mixing xanax and alcohol does make people sick to the stomach and most do puke. . My freind was called in to the police as suicidal, was driving home when pulled over, and never had a moving violation. She is an alcoholic, her freinds didnt even know she had been drinking at all that day, she drank a 5th of absolute and 1 and a half pints of it as well. . Imo, Diane was a closet drunk but a functioning closet drunk. More than one person in her family knows it too but wont want the culpability of admitting it.

Today's laboratory tests are quite sophisticated and are advancing every day. I have worked with Pathologists and laboratory specialists for much of my career and will check with a couple MDs re the suggestion that Xanax is so close in chemical makeup to alcohol that it might not be detected in lab tests. I do not believe this is correct, but am not 100% sure. However, I am quite sure that ingesting alcohol and 90 Xanax would not be survivable unless one's stomach was pumped almost immediately and the drug would still be detectable. If your friend was at a point where this drug was not showing up in tests, he/she most likely would have been diseased.

Pathologists performed an autopsy on Diane; they didn't just do tests of urine and blood, and as I recall they did not find evidence of drugs except for THC. (Is that the understanding of others?) There is a difference between clinical pathology (tests on bodily fluids) and anatomic pathology (extensive study of tissue, etc.)

This being said, if you are in fact correct, this could provide enough to keep this forum going for another six years.

I'll let you know what the experts say.

Thanks!!

 

[Nefriahaia]

Does anyone know if the HBO documentary is available online anywhere?

 

[nomoresorrow]

Does anyone know if the HBO documentary is available online anywhere?

I watched it here Nefriahaia; http://www.novamov.com/video/kofnww72d5rei

Simply x-out the advertisement and click the play button - you don't need to actually download it to watch it in its entirety.

 

[voxrock2000]

JMO, Diane may have taken xanax in the morning sometime, they seem to be available just like after dinner mints. From my own experience w a freind that drank vodka to the BAC of .5, not .05, then dropped 90 xanax in a suicide attempt. When the BAC was done, the xanax didnt show up at all in tests. Xanax is only off 1 chemical, molecule(not sure of the term) from alcohol. They are so fast acting it was almost as if the alcohol absorbed them faster. Mixing xanax and alcohol does make people sick to the stomach and most do puke. . My freind was called in to the police as suicidal, was driving home when pulled over, and never had a moving violation. She is an alcoholic, her freinds didnt even know she had been drinking at all that day, she drank a 5th of absolute and 1 and a half pints of it as well. . Imo, Diane was a closet drunk but a functioning closet drunk. More than one person in her family knows it too but wont want the culpability of admitting it.

Driving!? I doubt they would even be concious. A BAC of 0.5 is potentially fatal on its own.

 

[Melanie]

for those who haven't watched the documentary, can watch it online here (no registration, etc):

http://eztvstream.com/documentaries/theres-something-wrong-with-aunt-diane-2011

I'm watching it now -- feed seems fine.

Mel

 

[twinkiesmom]

Xanax is only off 1 chemical, molecule(not sure of the term) from alcohol.

That's not true... Ethanol is CH3CH2OH, Xanax is C17H13ClN4 (a huge molecule by comparison).

Diane didn't have a primary care physician...doubt that she had a scrip for Xanax....if she did, she wouldn't have needed pot to sleep.

I think Diane was vomiting from the sheer volume of alcohol consumed...We really don't need to find yet another drug to explain what happened here...The pot and alcohol are enough.

 

[Stella5]

That's not true... Ethanol is CH3CH2OH, Xanax is C17H13ClN4 (a huge molecule by comparison).

Diane didn't have a primary care physician...doubt that she had a scrip for Xanax....if she did, she wouldn't have needed pot to sleep.

I think Diane was vomiting from the sheer volume of alcohol consumed...We really don't need to find yet another drug to explain what happened here...The pot and alcohol are enough.

I completely agree with all of your post, especially the bolded part! Somewhere on one of these threads I listed all the drugs that were on her prescription drug list as shown on the documentary. I don't recall Xanax being on there, and if you don't have a script it's hard to get... unless she was buying from a dealer, which I doubt. Marijuana is one thing and easier to get, but buying controlled pharmaceuticals is another.

FYI... if you still haven't seen the docu it's only on HBO through tomorrow.