8 Die in Crash on Taconic State Parkway #2

[arielilane]

I also am leaning toward Diane thinking that SHE was the one going the right way and it was the other people driving the wrong way...it would fit right in with her personality/controlling nature...and many of us probably know what it's like trying to get a person who is *****faced drunk to understand when they're wrong.

Respectively snipped to allow for space.

Above SBM:

This never occurred to me and if someone else has mentioned it, I missed it. I can totally see that now that you're saying it. Explains her flashing the lights, etc...

It's possible when you are stoned and have about 10 drinks in your system...

 

[rpd113]

But if you thought others were going the wrong way and flying right at you, wouldn't you slow down and/or do everything possible to get out of the lane?

None of this is rational, though, so who knows.

 

[BuzzieCat]

I'm of the opinion that she either went the wrong way on purpose OR she accidentally went the wrong way and didn't notice. If she noticed that other cars were coming at her and she wasn't suicidal, wouldn't she have pulled over or tried to get out of the way? Some witnesses have said that her face was very calm.

 

[mymeow]

Jackie and Warren had a baby girl in November. They are having a very difficult time but have excellent support from friends and clergy. They will remain in my prayers!!

 

[TexasLori]

I had wondered about Jackie and her pregnancy but I didn't want to sleuth her. mymeow, how do you know they are having a difficult time? I was hoping they were finding some joy now. I imagine, though, that a certain amount of guilt comes with trying to move on. So complex. I wish them nothing but love and happiness. They are living my worst nightmare.

 

[mymeow]

I work with a family friend of theirs. I try not to ask too many questions but she volunteered Warren was unable to pick up the crib, to bring it home, after the baby was born. His friends had to intervene and help set it up and Jackie seeks regular counsel from her parish priest to help her cope. I cannot even imagine their pain!

 

[bogeygal]

Will be saying prayers for the Hance family and for their new baby, hoping the very best for them all. I wish them all the joy in the world with their new baby, and for some healing now with this new blessing.

 

[redheadedgal]

same situation... different result...

"woman drives 18 miles down wrong side of highway"


Drawsby bailed herself out of jail the next morning and claimed to not remember anything from the previous night. Police investigators said it "appeared" she had been drinking and taking prescription medication.


http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/woman-drives-18-miles-down-wrong-side-highway-185810236.html

 

[nosysw]

I was just reading that on another site...unbelievable! She's pleading 'not guilty' of course...

 

[AlwaysShocked]

"but she volunteered Warren was unable to pick up the crib, to bring it home, after the baby was born. His friends had to intervene and help set it up and Jackie seeks regular counsel from her parish priest to help her cope"

meow: Did you take this to mean that he was physically unable to lift the crib or emotionally unable to go and get it? If the latter, I would wonder if perhaps it might not have been too soon......

I too wish these folks the best.

 

[mymeow]

It was all emotional. The pain of losing their beloved 3 beautiful daughters was front and center.

 

[nosysw]

It almost seems like it would have been easier (slightly) if they had a boy...but God knows best...I hope they can find some peace some day. I can't even imagine how they have made it this far.

 

[bondobbs]

Having had way too much experience (depression - bipolar & alcohol) with this in my life, I'm afraid...food for thought: If Diane suffered from any mental disorders such as bipolar, one can truly go into a rage at the drop of a hat and alcohol just exacerbates the rage. One becomes defiant and reckless, truly reckless. Alcohol exacerbates all those feelings.

I have been following this case from when it happened. It happened close to where I live and I drive that way many times a month. I watched the documentary over last weekend.

Borderline Personality Disorder BPD is associated with dysregulated emotions, impulsiveness, identity disorder and shame. While I can't rightly say whether Diane Schuler had BPD (or was bipolar or had MDD or anything), after reading the NY Magazine article/interview with Danny Schuler and watching the documentary, I have been working on a theory of my own. I stumbled across the "intentional murder/suicide" theory on a blog and it says, basically, that she planned to die and kill all the kids before she started out that day. That she used the alcohol and drugs to "steel herself" to be able to have such an accident.

I disagree with this theory in part. I think that what happened is that she started drinking a little early in the day to be able to handle either a hangover or a car full of 5 kids under 9 or for whatever reason. I think she misjudged how much she drank. She probably also thought she's be home long before she was and when she got to the other side of the Tappan Zee, her niece called her father (Diane's brother) in a panic - "There's something wrong with Aunt Diane". What was wrong with her at that time was she was drunk. Soon after, her brother spoke with her and she sounded incoherent. I believe her brother knew she was drunk and panicked. However, I also believe he did something you should not do to someone who is mentally unstable, impulsive, has an identity disorder, shame and on top of all of that intoxicated. I believe (although no one will know without a transcript of that phone call) that her brother scolded her and basically said that he was going to ruin her, call the cops, screamed "WTF? You have the kids in the car?! ..." etc. Basically tearing her a new one and telling her to stay right where she was.

This triggered in her, I believe, a dangerous combination of suicidal despair and a desire to strike back at her judge - her brother. Her whole identity that had been carefully built and managed over years and years was at risk. Her motherhood, her career, everything that she had worked so hard to cultivate (while possibly at the same time living a life of pain-killing drinking and drugs) was crashing down around her. Her double-life would be discovered. It would confirm that she was a bad person whose mother left her at 9 because she was that bad person. She'd be ruined. Her whole identity was at risk. That was the shameful/suicidal side.

The vengeance thing was what kept her from putting the nieces out on the side of the road. That and (maybe in her drunken state) she felt an accident would get people on her side in death, rather than make her out to be a monster in life. I know it didn't work out that way, but I was trying to put myself in her shoes on the side of the road and after that phone call.

That would explain why she dropped the phone. And why, for the first time in the journey, she drove off course. She drove North, up the Saw Mill (most likely) and then up the Taconic the correct direction before turning around and heading south in the northbound fast lane, without braking or swerving until the accident.

I'm not excusing her at all. I think she murdered those kids and the people in the other car. I do think that if you look at it this way, it might explain a bit. Of course the brother is tight-lipped about the whole thing and will not discuss the contents of that phone call.

 

[Nova]

bondobbs, I'm sure you didn't mean to blame Diane's brother. We should make it clear that the words one would use to convince a drunk to stop driving your children are the same that might provoke the sort of psychotic break you describe.

And here's my question: I realize she wasn't thinking clearly, but if she was determined to kill herself and her passengers, why drive on the wrong side of the freeway? We have no testimony that she swerved to try to hit oncoming cars; on the contrary, we hear she flashed her lights and honked to ward off traffic coming at her.

Why not ram into a tree or a concrete abutment? Why not at least speed down a two-lane highway where she could easily swerve into oncoming traffic that couldn't avoid her?

Like the woman mentioned above who drove the wrong way for 18 miles, Diane had no way of guaranteeing that her murder/suicide would be successful.

 

[noZme]

Welcome bondobbs!

I agree that it is unlikely any more details will be made public than is now known.

My heart still breaks for the victims of Diane's "negligence" & the survivors who live with the immense, senseless loss of their loved ones.

 

[Nova]

Welcome bondobbs!

I agree that it is unlikely any more details will be made public than is now known.

My heart still breaks for the victims of Diane's "negligence" & the survivors who live with the immense, senseless loss of their loved ones.

Yes, welcome, bondobbs!

I agree with noZme and will not be surprised if aspects of this case always remain a mystery (or at least unprovable). Don't get me wrong: I think it's clear that Diane got herself drunk and not for the first time either. But what caused her to get THAT drunk on that particular day, we may never know.

 

[LunaticFringe]

Yes, welcome, bondobbs!

I agree with noZme and will not be surprised if aspects of this case always remain a mystery (or at least unprovable). Don't get me wrong: I think it's clear that Diane got herself drunk and not for the first time either. But what caused her to get THAT drunk on that particular day, we may never know.

Nova My Darling,

I think this will always remain a mystery.I don't think we will ever have an answer that will make us satisified.At least for me.

 

[Penelope]

I have been following this case from when it happened. It happened close to where I live and I drive that way many times a month. I watched the documentary over last weekend.

Borderline Personality Disorder BPD is associated with dysregulated emotions, impulsiveness, identity disorder and shame. While I can't rightly say whether Diane Schuler had BPD (or was bipolar or had MDD or anything), after reading the NY Magazine article/interview with Danny Schuler and watching the documentary, I have been working on a theory of my own. I stumbled across the "intentional murder/suicide" theory on a blog and it says, basically, that she planned to die and kill all the kids before she started out that day. That she used the alcohol and drugs to "steel herself" to be able to have such an accident.

I disagree with this theory in part. I think that what happened is that she started drinking a little early in the day to be able to handle either a hangover or a car full of 5 kids under 9 or for whatever reason. I think she misjudged how much she drank. She probably also thought she's be home long before she was and when she got to the other side of the Tappan Zee, her niece called her father (Diane's brother) in a panic - "There's something wrong with Aunt Diane". What was wrong with her at that time was she was drunk. Soon after, her brother spoke with her and she sounded incoherent. I believe her brother knew she was drunk and panicked. However, I also believe he did something you should not do to someone who is mentally unstable, impulsive, has an identity disorder, shame and on top of all of that intoxicated. I believe (although no one will know without a transcript of that phone call) that her brother scolded her and basically said that he was going to ruin her, call the cops, screamed "WTF? You have the kids in the car?! ..." etc. Basically tearing her a new one and telling her to stay right where she was.

This triggered in her, I believe, a dangerous combination of suicidal despair and a desire to strike back at her judge - her brother. Her whole identity that had been carefully built and managed over years and years was at risk. Her motherhood, her career, everything that she had worked so hard to cultivate (while possibly at the same time living a life of pain-killing drinking and drugs) was crashing down around her. Her double-life would be discovered. It would confirm that she was a bad person whose mother left her at 9 because she was that bad person. She'd be ruined. Her whole identity was at risk. That was the shameful/suicidal side.

The vengeance thing was what kept her from putting the nieces out on the side of the road. That and (maybe in her drunken state) she felt an accident would get people on her side in death, rather than make her out to be a monster in life. I know it didn't work out that way, but I was trying to put myself in her shoes on the side of the road and after that phone call.

That would explain why she dropped the phone. And why, for the first time in the journey, she drove off course. She drove North, up the Saw Mill (most likely) and then up the Taconic the correct direction before turning around and heading south in the northbound fast lane, without braking or swerving until the accident.

I'm not excusing her at all. I think she murdered those kids and the people in the other car. I do think that if you look at it this way, it might explain a bit. Of course the brother is tight-lipped about the whole thing and will not discuss the contents of that phone call.

Indeed, she could have had Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD) -- the descriptions about her personality do fit. However, it does not mean she was suicidal.

My stepdaughter has been diagnosed as having BPD and for a number of years I have believed that her mother also suffers from BPD. In addition to exhibiting many BPD behaviours, the mother's actions when driving in a car are outrageous. She gets angry at anything another driver does that she believes is a slight against herself and screams and curses. I have seen her driving very dangerously when in such and angry state. One time, she tried to drive her car (with my stepdaughter in it) up a muddy hill of dirt to get to a paved road above. Everyone watching knew it was a mistake to drive up the hill -- and we watched her make 9 or 10 attempts to get up the hill, each time watching the car slide back down the hill. My husband (the father of my stepdaughter) was horrified but could do nothing about it because his ex-wife would listen to no one when she was in that state, and to point out her irrational behaviour would only enrage her more.

IMO if Diane Schuler had BPD, the alcohol could very well have magnified her BPD behaviours that were set off by the phone call, causing her to become enraged and to drive in an irrational manner. I do not believe she tried to intentionally kill the children and the others, but that she was so taken over by her anger, she did not/could not pay attention to her driving.

 

[bondobbs]

Well, obviously, I could be wrong about the whole thing, yet my impression of the day was what I said. I wasn't trying to blame the brother, I am not about blame. I think that Diane had BPD (or something very similar) because she was abandoned by her mother at 9 and grew up in a family that was all men. She was forced to be the caretaker of her brothers and probably her father too. She built a life (based on the documentary) in which she had to be the perfect mother and, essentially, the mother of her own husband. She also built a career in which she was in control. My feeling is that if she did have BPD or emotional regulation issues, the behavior (the drinking) and its effects made it more difficult for her to control her impulsiveness. The NY mag article cites 2 incidences in which she was extremely impulsive. It says:

"Though Diane could be impulsive, Danny never doubted her judgment. One time, Diane ran out for milk and returned with a flat-screen TV. Another time, she went out for groceries and returned with a Jeep Cherokee. “She deserved it,” Danny tells me."
http://nymag.com/nymag/features/62043/index1.html
I get the feeling that, based on her history, she was living in what mentalization therapy called "pretend mode". She was faking her way through life, building the image of being in control, the perfect mother and employee. The friends in the documentary say time and time again how she exhibited black and white thinking, burning bridges with friends and family, and how she either liked you or expressed her dislike in a dramatic fashion. This behavior is a hallmark of BPD.

People with BPD can get triggered into extreme behavior based on their dysregulated emotions. There's a lot of shame associated with BPD. When that shame is "touched" by friends or family, the person can make wildly dangerous and irrational decisions, behaving in ways that others can't understand. I think it's possible that her shame was triggered in the phone call, which, from the brother's perspective was a completely natural reaction - I mean, what if your sister was drunk and had your 3 daughters in the car?! It's only natural to go ballistic on her. I know I would - out of worry and concern for my three daughter (which, BTW, I have 3 daughters). When her world came crashing down around her because of her behavior, my theory is that she said "f*ck it, I'm better off dead" and, in that state of drunkenness, made the decision to kill herself and the kids. I know it seems completely irrational and almost evil, yet when someone is emotionally dysregulated like she probably was, the irrational rules the day.

Of course, like you all said, we will never know for sure. My point in posting all of that was that the other potential Diane Schulers out there need to be offered compassion and, hopefully, treatment before they get to that mental state. Unfortunately, there are probably quite a few considering a NIAAA study showed that 5.9% of 39,000 interviewees exhibited signs of BPD.

 

[bondobbs]

What I didn't say in either of my messages is that my wife and one of my 3 daughters exhibit signs of BPD. They have both been to DBT therapy and are doing MUCH better than before. I hope this is not the case of me finding BPD around every corner, yet when I watched the documentary about Diane Schuler and heard her history (from the NY mag article and the doc and [of course] googling it), I couldn't help but think of BPD. She had depression, no doubt. She also had insomnia, which is another feature typical of BPD. It seems to have to do with serotonin levels in the brain (both insomnia and depression). One study showed that 75% of people with BPD have substance abuse issues. Another showed that 70-75% attempt suicide once in their lives and 8-10% complete suicide. That's 400 times the general population. The reason that ONLY 8-10% commit suicide seems to the the impulsive nature of the attempts - these are not pre-planned. In one study the average time that a person with BPD thought about suicide before an attempt was 5 minutes. If they have a gun, things are far worse - or if they have a van that can drive the wrong way on a parkway.

If she was suicidal, would that she would had pulled off the side of the Tappan Zee and just jumped. I mean, it would suck for the kids to be sitting there alone on the bridge, but it's better than them being dead. Many, many people jump from that bridge. So many that the police installed emergency phones with signs that read "life is worth living, call for help". In the last few years that those phones were installed, it is my understanding that no one has ever picked up the phone for help.