8 Die in Crash on Taconic State Parkway

[PrayersForMaura]

(bbm)


This is what I've been thinking about with respect to the ethical question of whether someone drunk who didn't wreck and kill people is equally guilty, morally, of the transgression Diane Schuler made.

This story is really affecting me--and I mean beyond the shared reaction to the terrible tragedy that ensued. I mean that it's really making me think about my own behavior, past and present, drinking or sober.

Speeding, angry driving, cell use, eating while driving, driving on too little sleep.... It may be a bit of a stretch to think of some of these as being "morally wrong," but how about "practically"?

I'm driving just a little differently these past few days....

I'm with you...
A truck driver on a highway here in St. Louis was wide awake during the day and reaching for or talking on his cell phone (not sure if they ever decided if he was on the phone or reaching to answer it across his dashboard) and his truck plowed over 5 cars that stopped suddenly due to traffic congestion at the overpass. He killed an amish family on their way to a funeral -- a family that normally doesn't travel by car. It was a big deal in our town.

Drinking and driving, talking on the cell phone, doing makeup in the car ... we all have distractions, some worse than others. But the results can be the same.

It's killing me how some people here are acting like they could never be the cause of a deadly crash.


Leonard Little on the St. Louis Rams played football for several years after a drunk driving accident killing a mother.
Then he got stopped again a few years back for a DWI.
After the first time, you'd think he'd learn.

For Diane, though, this apparently was the first time ... and unfortunately her last.

Don't put it past yourselves that you couldn't cause a deadly crash.
We all could.

Hopefully people learn from this tragedy.
It could be one of us next time that we're all talking about here.

 

[zippitydoda]

I guess I, too am not an "upstanding" citizen.

good grief, all the people with glass houses here are blinding me.

If its an open bottle, I'm sure you keep it in your trunk. If its anywhere within arms reach its a no no. I would not want you blinded by a ticket too. :blowkiss:

 

[PrayersForMaura]

If its an open bottle, I'm sure you keep it in your trunk. If its anywhere within arms reach its a no no. I would not want you blinded by a ticket too. :blowkiss:

Speeding is a no-no, too. I'm sure no one does that. :blowkiss:


Edited to add, ironically, I am one of my state's citizens of the year for 2009.
I am not perfect, though, and don't ever claim to be.

 

[STEADFAST]

My fiance and I are social drinkers and have vodka in our car most of the time.
He drinks vodka red bulls, I drink vodka tonics. It's not really unusual.
It's not like we are sneaking swigs out of it on our way to work.

Missouri is one of the few states without an open container in vehicle law. In fact, Missouri has way more lax liquor laws than most states. (Which means I can buy liquor at Walmart when I'm there. Handy. ) Missouri's penalty for drinking while driving is about the same as New York's for having an open container in the car -- although in NY, you are also subject to jail time.
http://www.cga.ct.gov/2008/rpt/2008-R-0128.htm

So it probably seems perfectly normal for a Missourian to have an open container in the car, even for the passenger to be drinking from it. But in most places, that would be shockingly illegal.

 

[PrayersForMaura]

Missouri is one of the few states without an open container in vehicle law. In fact, Missouri has way more lax liquor laws than most states. (Which means I can buy liquor at Walmart when I'm there. Handy. ) Missouri's penalty for drinking while driving is about the same as New York's for having an open container in the car -- although in NY, you are also subject to jail time.
http://www.cga.ct.gov/2008/rpt/2008-R-0128.htm

So it probably seems perfectly normal for a Missourian to have an open container in the car, even for the passenger to be drinking from it. But in most places, that would be shockingly illegal.

There are some weird and often very different laws in every state, I am finding.
I read somewhere where you can't kill a mouse or something strange like that in one state!

In NY, my friend got a ticket talking on his cell while driving but here in MO, there are not such laws ... at least not that I am aware of. I see probably 3 drivers in every 5 cars that pass on their cell phone. One lady cut me off the road the other day and I had to change lanes really fast. I drove past her to get around her and saw her on her cell phone.

I did think, though, that there was an open container law here.
:waitasec:
I really don't know all the laws though, quite honestly.

I think it ought to be a law to use a blinker!! :crazy:

 

[RJA00]

Missouri is one of the few states without an open container in vehicle law. In fact, Missouri has way more lax liquor laws than most states. (Which means I can buy liquor at Walmart when I'm there. Handy. ) Missouri's penalty for drinking while driving is about the same as New York's for having an open container in the car -- although in NY, you are also subject to jail time.
http://www.cga.ct.gov/2008/rpt/2008-R-0128.htm

So it probably seems perfectly normal for a Missourian to have an open container in the car, even for the passenger to be drinking from it. But in most places, that would be shockingly illegal.

here in my little town of tn. you can only buy liqour at the liqour store and they cant even call it a liqour store, package store

my husband buys a bottle of brandy about once a year he takes a shot once in a blue moon when he feels a cold coming on.

my husband will not take our son in the store with him and he acts like he is breaking the law every time he walks in there.

we just dont drink. so it just does not feel normal to go into one

so if somebody asked me if my husband drank, i would probley say no but i guess i would not be telling the truth because he does take a shot every once in awhile

 

[Noway]

My fiance and I are social drinkers and have vodka in our car most of the time.
He drinks vodka red bulls, I drink vodka tonics. It's not really unusual.
It's not like we are sneaking swigs out of it on our way to work.

Missouri is one of the few states without an open container in vehicle law. In fact, Missouri has way more lax liquor laws than most states. (Which means I can buy liquor at Walmart when I'm there. Handy. ) Missouri's penalty for drinking while driving is about the same as New York's for having an open container in the car -- although in NY, you are also subject to jail time.
http://www.cga.ct.gov/2008/rpt/2008-R-0128.htm

So it probably seems perfectly normal for a Missourian to have an open container in the car, even for the passenger to be drinking from it. But in most places, that would be shockingly illegal.

http://www.cga.ct.gov/2008/rpt/2008-R-0128.htm

Good point -- the laws of the state you live in might dictate your behavior.

I still find it odd that she would transport the bottle back and forth when it was there in case he wanted a drink. Also, why not just have a bottle at home and a bottle in the camper?

Maybe keeping alcohol in your car is not that unusual ...


ETA: Sorry ... I bolded text in PFM's post and didn't address that part. It seems that DS was taking swigs while she was driving and that is a key point. The alcohol in the vehicle may not be odd but the alcohol in her system and in her stomach negates the "she never got drunk" defense. IMO

 

[southcitymom]

I'm in the glass house too. I don't for a second fool myself into thinking it would be impossible for me to do something while driving that would precipitate innocent people's death.

 

[SuziQ]

lol, I have had some experience with the different state open container laws. I have to remind family members that come to visit me from the Midwest, that they can't bring that open can of beer into the car with me. I have a friend from New Orleans that swears they have these little drive through huts where you can purchase blender drinks in cups and straws. They all think the open container laws are stupid. I have to explain to them stupid or not, the law is what it is here.

 

[SuziQ]

Personally I've never had the desire to drink and drive. Taxis, etc. are cheaper safer than a DUI. For me I can't enjoy a good buzz knowing I'll be taking a chance driving home later. I just never put myself in a position to drink if I knew I wouldn't have a safe way home. And yes I do drink and when I was younger I drank among other things. I do wonder though thinking back, about the condition of some of the people who drove me home!

 

[Blue_Dolphin308]

Husband is now under investigation

 

[RJA00]

ok i have been thinking about some stuff

She was last seen at mcdonalds right ? was she inside or in the drivethrough

do they have the video of her leaving mcdonalds
I would like to see if she had a 16oz cup in her hand when she was going out the door

Im not even go to write what im thinking because its probably crazy

 

[RJA00]

Husband is now under investigation

nvestigators say she stopped at a McDonald's in Liberty, N.Y., where witnesses reported seeing no signs that the woman was suffering any physical ailments.

She left the restaurant at about 10:45 a.m., state police said, and was last heard from when she made a cell phone call to her brother — the father of Schuler's nieces — at 1:02 p.m.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jAJAp341-paJmsICuZzSIf5lmV6wD99UTU100

I dont see how the husband could be in the wrong if witness seen her at 10:45 at mcdonalds and she was not suffering. I dont think she showing any sign when she left the campground jmo

jmo also that would be like saying if any of us have seen are husband or wife drunk, then we should never let them in the car with are kids

 

[grace60]

I stumbled upon a something while searching does vodka smell and have to wonder about this. http://tinyurl.com/lohprb Scroll sown about half way..... A new seemingly quiet trend has created a very hushed medical crisis.
Ya never know these days.

 

[tezi]

I stumbled upon a something while searching does vodka smell and have to wonder about this. http://tinyurl.com/lohprb Scroll sown about half way..... A new seemingly quiet trend has created a very hushed medical crisis.
Ya never know these days.

Good lord! Who would have thought?

 

[southcitymom]

I stumbled upon a something while searching does vodka smell and have to wonder about this. http://tinyurl.com/lohprb Scroll sown about half way..... A new seemingly quiet trend has created a very hushed medical crisis.
Ya never know these days.

From your link:

"Some girls have been placing tampons in vodka or other liquors and let the absorbent surface suck up several ounces of alcohol before inserting them. The tampons are in close contact with thin skin and are easily able to diffuse into the nearby capillaries, so the abuser becomes very intoxicated almost immediately. Since the alcohol enters the bloodstream, it passes the gastric fluids and digestive tract, taking an alternative and potentially deadly route. The medical experts say this method will allow the alcohol to by pass the liver. This is the most dangerous cocktail invented thus far, and the consumers aren’t thinking of their consequences."

I am glad you posted this, grace. I think anything that makes us all more aware of alcohol abuse is a good thing. I know one woman who did this with tampons (it's an old "treatment trick" - for a while they didn't automatically take your tampons when you checked in to be detoxed!). Alcoholics are extraordinarily resourceful and, as we might all learn from this case, can be unbelievably sneaky.

 

[southcitymom]

Husband is now under investigation

If this Husband is charged criminally, I will come back here and eat my hat and whatever crow is presented.

There will, of course, be civil suits for whatever insurance money is available. The mother's estate may also be pursued if civil verdicts exceed the insurance money available, but the husband's property will be safe - he cannot be held accountable for his wife's negligence unless it can be proven that he knew she was loaded or would get loaded on the drive home and, as I've said before, that's NOT going to happen.

MOO.

 

[Native New Yorker]

".....phone records showed that four calls were logged on Ms. Schuler’s cellphone in the last hours of her life — two incoming calls and two outgoing ones. He said that Ms. Schuler called her brother, Warren Hance, at 11:37 a.m., to say that she was in traffic, “running a bit late,” but that her nieces would be home in time for a scheduled performance rehearsal. At 12:08 p.m., Ms. Schuler received a call, but it is not yet known who made the call, Mr. Ruskin said.
Emma Hance called her father at 12:58 p.m. and said, “Daddy, there is something wrong with Aunt Diane and she is having trouble seeing and she is talking funny, she is slurring,” Mr. Ruskin said. That call was dropped after three minutes and Mr. Hance called back at 1:01 p.m., in a conversation that lasted nine minutes.
The authorities, who have recovered Ms. Schuler’s abandoned cellphone, will dig into the phone records as part of a criminal investigation by the New York State Police and the Westchester County district attorney’s office."

Bolding Mine

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/08/nyregion/08crash.html?ref=nyregion

 

[southcitymom]

".....phone records showed that four calls were logged on Ms. Schuler’s cellphone in the last hours of her life — two incoming calls and two outgoing ones. He said that Ms. Schuler called her brother, Warren Hance, at 11:37 a.m., to say that she was in traffic, “running a bit late,” but that her nieces would be home in time for a scheduled performance rehearsal. At 12:08 p.m., Ms. Schuler received a call, but it is not yet known who made the call, Mr. Ruskin said.
Emma Hance called her father at 12:58 p.m. and said, “Daddy, there is something wrong with Aunt Diane and she is having trouble seeing and she is talking funny, she is slurring,” Mr. Ruskin said. That call was dropped after three minutes and Mr. Hance called back at 1:01 p.m., in a conversation that lasted nine minutes.
The authorities, who have recovered Ms. Schuler’s abandoned cellphone, will dig into the phone records as part of a criminal investigation by the New York State Police and the Westchester County district attorney’s office."

Bolding Mine

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/08/nyregion/08crash.html?ref=nyregion

It sounds like that might have been the convo she (Diane) had with her brother telling him she felt bad and when he told her to pullover and stay put.

ETA - NNY - what do you find puzzling about the calls?

 

[Native New Yorker]

The fact that the call lasted NINE minutes is very odd to me....
I feel that is the key to what finally happened.....something that Diane was upset about, found out about....I do not know, but that is a long time to be on the phone, especially if one is feeling ill....certainly long enough for him to hear slurred speech, etc.....