8 Die in Crash on Taconic State Parkway

[delaney]

I know that getting in a car after having too much to drink, is
common, some even have kids in the car when they attempt to drive.
What I have a hard time understanding is that Diane chose to START drinking while driving when she was responsible for the saftey of all those children.

When I went through re-hab what helped me the most...(besides liz taylors
first rehab in 80...think ,if its ok for liz, its ok for me..she saved my life..women did not admit to this back then)...is the Jellinek Curve.


http://aisleb.blogspot.com/2008/06/jellinek-curve.html.

If the Curve has already been posted,sorry.

 

[eleven]

I don't understand this: If she was trying so desperately to hide her drinking, why would she freely admit that she wasn't feeling well and was having difficulty seeing things?

I really think there is so much more to this story.

 

[SleuthyMama]

I absolutely believe she was freaking out that she was going to get caught and I absolutely think that played into her already confused state. I also believe that her focus, once on the Taconic, was tunnel visioned - she was just trying to get home and not get caught

SCM, I'm going to ask you to let us into your head for a second.

I know that none of us can ever really know why Diane did what she did but knowing what I know about your experience with addiction, would you be able to tell me what you think you might have done, had you been in her place?

Terrified that you might be caught, would you admit that your niece was right...and admit to your own brother you weren't feeling well? Or would you completely try and play it off like there wasn't a thing wrong and you would have those kids home safe and sound in no time?

I have a hard time imagining that someone who could be scared out of her mind that the jig might be up when she gets home would admit that yeah, something is wrong and she wasn't in control of the situation.

 

[SleuthyMama]

eleven, that's exactly what I'm trying to ask as well. Thank you.

 

[tapu]

Seems like Emma had already said that "there's something wrong with Aunt Diane," and mentioned both her speech and vision problems. So Diane couldn't really say "I'm fine." Instead, she probably indicated that she was sick, rather than drunk, to explain it away for her brother. I know that's something I would do when drinking. I remember one time I was slurring my words and I told the person on the phone with me that "I hadth bidthen mah tung!!"

 

[SleuthyMama]

Thanks Tapu. I appreciate your honesty and openness on this thread as well as SCM's.

I understand that Emma had already said something was wrong w/ Diane but I still think that someone who had to be as careful and cunning as Diane must have been to hide her chronic drinking problem could have still explained things away when she got home.

She could have said that it was a headache, it was indigestion from Mickey D's...she could have come up with any excuse. I think explaining away an 8 year old's take on the situation would be much easier than explaining away an adult's take on the situation. Who else would back Emma up? All the other kids were too little to really grasp the situation.

 

[JBean]

I have a question for thoise of you that have shared your road to recovery.

Was there ever a time in your married life that your spouse and close family members had no idea this was a part of your life at all? I don't mean currently hiding it successfully, I mean that this was a complete unknown to your family and spouse and they did not ever know you had an abusive past.

I can see successfully,hiding that one has fallen off the wagon and started abusing again. Hiding it so others don;t know youhave relapsed. What I am struggling with is hiding the entire problem from everyone forever. I don't think anyone has come forward and said they knew she battled this problem at any point in her life yet have they?
IOW,I don't think you become an abuser overnight, so I have discarded that notion. I completely understand the idea of using without anyone knowing, but I cannot wrap my head around the possibility of no one knowing anything ever during her entire battle with alcohol.

 

[tapu]

I have a question for thoise of you that have shared your road to recovery.

Was there ever a time in your married life that your spouse and close family members had no idea this was a part of your life at all? I don't mean currently hiding it successfully, I mean that this was a complete unknown to your family and spouse and they did not ever know you had an abusive past.

I can see successfully,hiding that one has fallen off the wagon and started abusing again. Hiding it so others don;t know youhave relapsed. What I am struggling with is hiding the entire problem from everyone forever. I don't think anyone has come forward and said they knew she battled this problem at any point in her life yet have they?
IOW,I don't think you become an abuser overnight, so I have discarded that notion. I completely understand the idea of using without anyone knowing, but I cannot wrap my head around the possibility of no one knowing anything ever during her entire battle with alcohol.

Good questions. I would challenge the idea that no one becomes an abuser (of alcohol) overnight. I don't want to go into my exact details with that, but let's just say that, if we were talking about cigarettes, I went from a puff to a pack-a-day just like that.

As for hiding your using completely, forever. I think closeted alcoholics hide their alcoholism and their usage details clear up until they don't. I think Diane Schuler probably kept things well hidden right until her luck ran out and she got found out. I wish she hadn't been found out in such a tragic way, but I think that happens more than just this time.

It seems a common story, when someone goes into the program or rehab, for people close to them to say, "But you never seemed like you were an alcoholic!" And, "I didn't even realize you drank!"

 

[capoly]

Thanks...I should have read this sooner. So she took the Sawmill? That's not any easy road to manage straight folks. So she goes North and decides to find the Taconic? Intersections like that are up and down the Taconic. If you're not on the "right side" of the highway (think road), you could mistake it for a pull out. I wouldn't even call these intersection "ramps" in a lot of places.

Sorry if this has been discussed:

But while the parkway functions as a "limited access" type of highway, safety is an issue. The parkway was designed for a more pastoral era and is in need of modernization. At-grade crossings and closely-spaced access points are inconsistent with the parkway's function and introduce unexpected conflicts with other vehicles.


http://www.dutchess29.org/state_documents/Taconic_Task_Force_Report_2_from_PoJo.html

Hi RR0004,

My post quoted was in response to another post so want to clarify that the SawMill route remains a speculative route. No one has come forward publicly to say they saw her on SawMill.

imo that route requires too much thought so am still leaning towards the Sprain Brook route as it allows for auto pilot movement.

It's said there's a reason for everything.....so hope we are doing our part in that reason for the sake of Emma.

 

[grace60]

No criminal charges
http://www.lohud.com/article/2009908180409

Barbara yesterday said that"we have been told that" Diane's liver, kidneys and other body parts showed no signs of prior alcohol abuse.
http://www.nypost.com/seven/08182009/news/regionalnews/taconic_husband_in_the_clear_185185.htm

Not sure if we can believe what Barbara says but this one can be proven easily I would think.

 

[Hopeful One]

OT: JBean your new avatar is freaking me out!! :crazy:

Thanks for the link, grace. I was just about to post that.

 

[southcitymom]

SCM, I'm going to ask you to let us into your head for a second.

I know that none of us can ever really know why Diane did what she did but knowing what I know about your experience with addiction, would you be able to tell me what you think you might have done, had you been in her place?

Terrified that you might be caught, would you admit that your niece was right...and admit to your own brother you weren't feeling well? Or would you completely try and play it off like there wasn't a thing wrong and you would have those kids home safe and sound in no time?

I have a hard time imagining that someone who could be scared out of her mind that the jig might be up when she gets home would admit that yeah, something is wrong and she wasn't in control of the situation.

This is a question I have been asking myself and it's hard to know, especially when we don't know how impaired she was and how bad she was feeling, but I am 99% sure I would have acted very similarly to Diane.

Once I get on the phone with my brother, If I am able to act like nothing is wrong and I didn't know why Emma had called then is my first choice. But as I talk to my brother, I piece things together - Emma's worried, she's gotten her father worried, I DO feel like hell and I am slurring a little. So I try to buy time.

I go to choice number 2 - I tell a little bit of the truth "Yes, I am feeling badly and confused and having some visual disturbances - I don't know what's wrong with me." This buys me some time because I am absolutely incapable of telling my brother who has entrusted me with his kids, who thinks I am an awesome mother and person and who doesn't know how much I drink the truth and I'm still thinking I can wiggle my way out of this - after all, I've been fooling him and everyone well for a while now.

Then, once I realize my brother iss coming, PANIC and the desire to buy some more time would rush over me. I would come up with a plan to get myself out of this.

I would leave the phone on the side of the rode because that works into the story I am planning to tell my brother. My plan at this point is to not drink anymore and to sober up in the ride to my brother's house. When I get to his home, I will call him on his cell phone and say, "OMG - I am so sorry - you must have been worried to death - but when we were talking earlier and I was feeling so terrible, I had gotten out of the car to get some fresh air and talk to you and then I flaked and left my phone there. I don't know what happened - I was feeling so bad and so weird, but then after I spoke with you, I started to feel better again, whatever it was passed - I think I just need to get home and rest - I will call the doctor tomorrow morning, blah blah blah"

By the time my brother gets back home to his house, I will have had time to brush my teeth, straighten up and really swing home with this story. I know my brother will buy my story because he has no reason whatsoever to think I would lie to him.

I realize my brother is coming for us and I can't be found, so I start looking for a different route to his house - a route that he wouldn't normally take. This is how I wind up on the Taconic. Once I'm there, I am completely focused on getting us home and sobering up and going over my story in my mind so I can put on the performance I need to put on. I have complete tunnel vision. Then - the collision.

Remember - my story isn't going to be perfect - there will be some holes - my brother may not understand my actions, BUT it will buy me the time I need to act sober again and it's the best plan I can come up with.

 

[Hopeful One]

No criminal charges
http://www.lohud.com/article/2009908180409

Barbara yesterday said that"we have been told that" Diane's liver, kidneys and other body parts showed no signs of prior alcohol abuse.
http://www.nypost.com/seven/08182009/news/regionalnews/taconic_husband_in_the_clear_185185.htm

Not sure if we can believe what Barbara says but this one can be proven easily I would think.

I wonder about this one. My sister drank for 15 years, ten of those years included very heavy, daily drinking. After rehab, her liver was tested and looks great. I was shocked by this.

My question is, is there ALWAYS damage if you've been a heavy drinker? Can a heavy drinker just be "lucky" and not have their liver damaged? He says it doesn't show signs of prior abuse but how can they really know that? What if her problem only developed in the last year or so? That doesn't seem like a significant enough amount of time to cause visible damage, but of course, I'm no doctor.

 

[southcitymom]

No criminal charges
http://www.lohud.com/article/2009908180409

Barbara yesterday said that"we have been told that" Diane's liver, kidneys and other body parts showed no signs of prior alcohol abuse.
http://www.nypost.com/seven/08182009/news/regionalnews/taconic_husband_in_the_clear_185185.htm

Not sure if we can believe what Barbara says but this one can be proven easily I would think.

Although I would surely trot this out if I were Barbara, if she was early stage alcoholic and had not been drinking abusively for a very long time, her kidneys and liver and other body parts wouldn't reveal much. Additionally, plenty of hardcore, longterm alcoholics don't show damage in liver, kidney, etc....

 

[southcitymom]

I wonder about this one. My sister drank for 15 years, ten of those years included very heavy, daily drinking. After rehab, her liver was tested and looks great. I was shocked by this.

My question is, is there ALWAYS damage if you've been a heavy drinker? Can a heavy drinker just be "lucky" and not have their liver damaged? He says it doesn't show signs of prior abuse but how can they really know that? What if her problem only developed in the last year or so? That doesn't seem like a significant enough amount of time to cause visible damage, but of course, I'm no doctor.

There is not ALWAYS damage if you are a heavy drinker - many factors play a role in what your liver looks like - genetics, how long you have been drinking, etc....My Father is an alcoholic and has been for many years and his liver functions are great.

 

[Hopeful One]

Thanks for that, scm. That sums up exactly what I think happened.

I've been thinking a lot about if she HAD just stopped the van and waited for her brother. Would he have been absolutely FURIOUS with her for putting his children in danger? Sure. But would he have forgiven her over time? I wonder about this.

I was incredibly naive when my sister was using. I knew she drank a lot but I never EVER would have considered her an alcoholic. And I never would have believed she used other drugs. I let her babysit my children, for God's sake!!! When I think of this now, sheer terror washes over me, knowing what could have happened. I was SO STUPID. I remember yelling at her at Family Day during a meeting when she was in rehab. "I TRUSTED YOU WITH MY CHILDREN!!!!!!!! HOW COULD YOU DRINK WHEN YOU WERE WATCHING THEM??????"

But, I just didn't know. So many of us are so naive without even really realizing. Unless you've been through it, you just don't know.

Now, I forgive her. I'm almost more angry with myself for not seeing what I should have seen. Those are MY children and it's MY responsibility to protect them. Instead, I let my alcoholic, drug-addicted sister babysit them nearly once a week for years. It could have ended as badly as this story.

However, had she come to me and said, "You know what? I know I've got your kids right now and I know I shouldn't have, but I've had way too much alcohol. Can you come get them?" What would my reaction have been? I just don't know.

 

[Intermezzo]

I know that getting in a car after having too much to drink, is
common, some even have kids in the car when they attempt to drive.
What I have a hard time understanding is that Diane chose to START drinking while driving when she was responsible for the saftey of all those children.
When I went through re-hab what helped me the most...(besides liz taylors
first rehab in 80...think ,if its ok for liz, its ok for me..she saved my life..women did not admit to this back then)...is the Jellinek Curve.


http://aisleb.blogspot.com/2008/06/jellinek-curve.html.

If the Curve has already been posted,sorry.

BBM
I agree ...she CHOSE..and her choices that day led to horrific deaths.

 

[CrankyPants]

I just had to thank all of you who have been so willing to share your addiction experiences with us. I have learned a lot!

I am wondering if, now that you look back on it, were their signs of your addiction that those close to you did not pick up on? Are there things that we can learn to be alert for? Nothing can be done for these 8 now, but for the rest of us to learn from the experience so that such a tragedy is not allowed to happen again.

 

[grace60]

Although I would surely trot this out if I were Barbara, if she was early stage alcoholic and had not been drinking abusively for a very long time, her kidneys and liver and other body parts wouldn't reveal much. Additionally, plenty of hardcore, longterm alcoholics don't show damage in liver, kidney, etc....

I agree about the early stages of alcoholism. I can also see how easy it would be for her to hide it. Hubby works nights, she gets home around 6 pm send the sitter on her way and she starts to have a few drinks. Kids in bed by 8 or 9 she could drink a hour or 2 more. I doubt hubby jumped into bed as soon as he got home and may have often fallen asleep on the couch after he got home. She could have done this 2 or 3 times a week.

 

[Hopeful One]

I just had to thank all of you who have been so willing to share your addiction experiences with us. I have learned a lot!

I am wondering if, now that you look back on it, were their signs of your addiction that those close to you did not pick up on? Are there things that we can learn to be alert for? Nothing can be done for these 8 now, but for the rest of us to learn from the experience so that such a tragedy is not allowed to happen again.

I'm not scm (don't ya love her? She has such great insight and she's incredibly well-spoken) but my sister is a recovering alcoholic and drug addict. She drank heavily for YEARS before I realized there was a problem. And even then, it took me more years to realize how serious that problem was.

She could drink enough to put me on the floor and I couldn't tell she had been drinking. She would come to our house, sneak drinks, and fill the bottles up with water so we didn't know.

Looking back now, I think her mood swings were a big indicator. But, I only correlate the two now. Back then, I probably never would have thought, "Oh!! Alcoholic!"