9/11 remains to be placed below ground in museum, families upset

[Nova]

I agree that it is ridiculous that there is nothing built yet. Me, personally,I don't visit the graves of my loved ones.I find no comfort and feel they are in my heart,not at the gravesite. That being said,if it gives someone else comfort,they have every right to have a say in where the remains are put.I remember visiting Ground Zero a couple years after the attack. It happened to be Fathers Day. I think it was one of the saddest thing I ever witnessed. There were people there who just wanted to mourn their fathers and could only stand around an ugly fence. I think it would be wrong for them to have to go into a museum for times like that,and something like the tomb of the unknown soldier would be more appropriate.

I can't think of any place I'd rather go for contemplation than a museum. Most museums are every bit as respectful as churches, but they aren't aligned with a specific theology.

Per the link, we're talking 50 complainants out the thousands of relatives of 9/11 victims. I don't believe any solution will ever please all survivors.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Again, you and others speak of "the families" as if they all have the same opinion and speak with one voice. That just isn't true. It's not that NO survivors were consulted, but apparently some of the survivors feel they have a divine right to dictate everything that happens in Lower Manhattan.

No! They just want their wishes heard.
It's their family members too. They have every right to protest if they think it's wrong.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

I wouldn't want to be in a museum. Like an exhibit.
It's just my opinion.

I don't see a right or wrong here. But I do feel 100% ALL family members should be heard. I'd want that right if my loved one died there.

 

[hockeymom]

I can't think of any place I'd rather go for contemplation than a museum. Most museums are every bit as respectful as churches, but they aren't aligned with a specific theology.

Per the link, we're talking 50 complainants out the thousands of relatives of 9/11 victims. I don't believe any solution will ever please all survivors.

That would suit me just fine too Nova. The only cemetaries I like to visit are the really old ones.( I actually love looking at old gravesstones) My parents are buried at a cemetary that only allows a flat marker in the ground. They have lots of restrictions as to flowers,etc.. I find it very cold and it only reminds me that they are no longer with me. It gives me no comfort. I think a museum would be a great spot for contemplation and pray,but again I defer to the victims families.
I do have to wonder how they would deal with the practicality of the "grave" being inside the museum. I questioned before,would there be a fee to get in? If so,would family members have to pay each time they wanted in the building? Would they get a pass? How many family members would get a pass? Will it be a secure building? Must they pass through security each time they visit? Even from a practical standpoint,it might be better to have something outside of the actual building.

 

[AlwaysShocked]

Why not do both things? Since it is only 50 families of the 3,000 families affected, why not interr the bulk of the remains under the museum as planned and then ALSO have a monument-type of memorial located somwhere outdoors on the grounds near the museum. And it could contain a portion of the remains also.

Unless they don't want anything outside to discourage visitors from leaving items - as people continue to do at The Vietnam Wall Memorial - a modestly sized outdoor monument in a parklike setting with a few concrete benches nearby could/sould provide a quiet spot for family members to pay their respects without having to into a building.

I too was raised that you don't walk on top of graves! But when my husband's ashes were buried at a National Cemetery - the kind that all the white marble grave markers are the same, and they are all lined up in rows - I learned that in order to even get to the actual burial site, you are going to have to walk over top of peoples' remains.

That's just the way it is in a National Cemetery.

 

[dsntslp]

I stopped reading at "Pay to get in", sorry, ugh.

I'll be d*mned if anybody's remains in my family were ever put on display (enclosed or not!) and people payed to get in.

Pay to get in????

Please tell me this is wrong or a misunderstanding.

I'll come back and finish reading the thread tomorrow but right now "PAY TO GET IN??? WTH!!!???????

Why not put the remains at the very top, closer to God (or higher power). A special encasement at the very top.

 

[dsntslp]

I just realized that I do not think I have EVER had an outburst at WS like this.

Remains are remains. Personally...when I am dead I do not think I will care what they do with me.
Some people have religious and personal beliefs that need to be taken into consideration regardless of what I believe.

But pay?

That just irks me to the core, sorry.

 

[hockeymom]

I stopped reading at "Pay to get in", sorry, ugh.

I'll be d*mned if anybody's remains in my family were ever put on display (enclosed or not!) and people payed to get in.

Pay to get in????

Please tell me this is wrong or a misunderstanding.

I'll come back and finish reading the thread tomorrow but right now "PAY TO GET IN??? WTH!!!???????

Why not put the remains at the very top, closer to God (or higher power). A special encasement at the very top.

I was just speculating. Nothing has ever been said about paying. I just wondered outloud..,if its a museum,would it be something people had to pay for? If so how would that effect families.

 

[dsntslp]

Oh...true...folks pay to get in museums. I see what you are saying.

Hockey Mom, Thanks for the clarification, truly.



Are there any other instances where graves, remains or cremains are in a resting place where one does not get in if they do not pay?

Lets think here...Michael Jackson and Liz Taylor are in the same mausoleum.
I know there is security there. Is it open to the public? Do they charge?

I'm just asking, really. I don't know.

The political figure heads etc that I can think of are in mausoleums outdoors.

 

[dsntslp]

Wow, it suddenly occurs to me that terrorists like to blow buildings up from the bottom.

How many terrorists would think it exponentially increases the feathers in their cap to blow up the same people twice?

I am not even going to try and give words to the thoughts I have about that.

 

[Nova]

I wouldn't want to be in a museum. Like an exhibit.
It's just my opinion.

I don't see a right or wrong here. But I do feel 100% ALL family members should be heard. I'd want that right if my loved one died there.

That's easier said that done.

I don't believe anyone said the remains will be an "exhibit" in the museum.

Okay, so 50 relatives out of many thousands have yammered to the press. They've been heard. Now let's ignore them and rebuild.

Or do you have another solution? Some kind of vote, perhaps? Will parents get more votes per person than cousins or the same? How will the voters be certified? Shall we call in Price, Waterhouse now that the Oscars are over?

BTW: if I get shot in your front yard, do my relatives get to control your property afterward? I think you're setting a precedent here.

 

[Nova]

I stopped reading at "Pay to get in", sorry, ugh.

I'll be d*mned if anybody's remains in my family were ever put on display (enclosed or not!) and people payed to get in.

Pay to get in????

Please tell me this is wrong or a misunderstanding.

I'll come back and finish reading the thread tomorrow but right now "PAY TO GET IN??? WTH!!!???????

Why not put the remains at the very top, closer to God (or higher power). A special encasement at the very top.

It was just a question by hockeymom whether relatives would have to pay to get in. I don't think anybody here knows the answer.

But why not pay to get in? Cemeteries aren't free. Of course, the cost there is met with the purchase of the grave site, but that isn't possible in this case. So, in theory, why not charge per visit?

 

[Kimberlyd125]

That's easier said that done.

I don't believe anyone said the remains will be an "exhibit" in the museum.

Okay, so 50 relatives out of many thousands have yammered to the press. They've been heard. Now let's ignore them and rebuild.

Or do you have another solution? Some kind of vote, perhaps? Will parents get more votes per person than cousins or the same? How will the voters be certified? Shall we call in Price, Waterhouse now that the Oscars are over?

BTW: if I get shot in your front yard, do my relatives get to control your property afterward? I think you're setting a precedent here.

I find this post extremely insensitive and quite rude. These people have suffered and to say "ignore them and rebuild" is beyond ugly.

I hope you never have to face anything like this. And, I hope if I do I don't have people with attitudes like demonstrated in this post making decisions for the remains of my loved one.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

It was just a question by hockeymom whether relatives would have to pay to get in. I don't think anybody here knows the answer.

But why not pay to get in? Cemeteries aren't free. Of course, the cost there is met with the purchase of the grave site, but that isn't possible in this case. So, in theory, why not charge per visit?

These are the remains of the victims of an unspeakable tragedy! An American tragedy. To even suggest it would be ok to charge their family to visit is disgusting.

 

[Nova]

I find this post extremely insensitive and quite rude. These people have suffered and to say "ignore them and rebuild" is beyond ugly.

I hope you never have to face anything like this. And, I hope if I do I don't have people with attitudes like demonstrated in this post making decisions for the remains of my loved one.

The current plans treat the unidentified remains with dignity and respect. Arrangements have been made for a space for relatives to come and grieve in private. Much attention and care have been paid to the feelings of survivors; if that isn't enough for 50 of them, then, yes, ignore them and rebuild.

It's been 10 years. I'm not saying we should forget 9/11 or even that we could if we tried. But it's time to stop tiptoeing around every individual's feelings (as if everyone is ever going to agree on anything), build a suitable memorial and allow the community around the site to heal and thrive.

By the way, ever hear of a little monument to the U.S.S. Arizona? It's one of the most visited in the United States. It consists of a building erected in Pearl Harbor OVER a sunken battleship that still contains the remains of nearly 1200 sailors killed in a surprise attack. So, yeah, those thousands of visitors every year (millions since the memorial was built) walk OVER the graves of the dead; yes, the ship that is their coffin is ON DISPLAY, as in a museum.

How about we think things through before flying off the handle and calling other people rude and insensitive?

 

[Nova]

These are the remains of the victims of an unspeakable tragedy! An American tragedy. To even suggest it would be ok to charge their family to visit is disgusting.

As usual, your post is long on melodrama and doesn't actually respond to my post.

I doubt the relatives will be charged, but if they were, how would that really differ from any cemetery where the purchasing of a plot pays for space and upkeep NO MATTER HOW TRAGIC the death was? Fees would be paid per visit rather than in a one time purchase (which might work out to be a bargain for those with few relatives and friends).

 

[Kimberlyd125]

The current plans treat the unidentified remains with dignity and respect. Arrangements have been made for a space for relatives to come and grieve in private. Much attention and care have been paid to the feelings of survivors; if that isn't enough for 50 of them, then, yes, ignore them and rebuild.

It's been 10 years. I'm not saying we should forget 9/11 or even that we could if we tried. But it's time to stop tiptoeing around every individual's feelings (as if everyone is ever going to agree on anything), build a suitable memorial and allow the community around the site to heal and thrive.

By the way, ever hear of a little monument to the U.S.S. Arizona? It's one of the most visited in the United States. It consists of a building erected in Pearl Harbor OVER a sunken battleship that still contains the remains of nearly 1200 sailors killed in a surprise attack. So, yeah, those thousands of visitors every year (millions since the memorial was built) walk OVER the graves of the dead; yes, the ship that is their coffin is ON DISPLAY, as in a museum.

How about we think things through before flying off the handle and calling other people rude and insensitive?

Oh trust me! I did think things through. I stand by my opinion that saying "ignore them and rebuild" is rude and insensitive.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

It was just a question by hockeymom whether relatives would have to pay to get in. I don't think anybody here knows the answer.

But why not pay to get in? Cemeteries aren't free. Of course, the cost there is met with the purchase of the grave site, but that isn't possible in this case. So, in theory, why not charge per visit?

These are the remains of the victims of an unspeakable tragedy! An American tragedy. To even suggest it would be ok to charge their family to visit is disgusting.

As usual, your post is long on melodrama and doesn't actually respond to my post.

I doubt the relatives will be charged, but if they were, how would that really differ from any cemetery where the purchasing of a plot pays for space and upkeep NO MATTER HOW TRAGIC the death was? Fees would be paid per visit rather than in a one time purchase (which might work out to be a bargain for those with few relatives and friends).

Can you explain to me how my response did not actually respond to your post?????????????
What you call melodrama, I call my OPINION.
Charging family members to visit the remains of the victims of 9/11 would be disgusting.
JMO MOO IMO IMHO and all that jazz. :smile:

 

[Nova]

Oh trust me! I did think things through. I stand by my opinion that saying "ignore them and rebuild" is rude and insensitive.

When people wallow in self-pity long enough, "sensitivity" stops being a kindness. I think we've reached that point.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

When people wallow in self-pity long enough, "sensitivity" stops being a kindness. I think we've reached that point.

Well that's just sad. JMO
I would NEVER refer to the family members of 9/11 as wallowing in self pity or yammering to the press or any of the other things that have been stated in your posts this morning.

The remains are still in limbo. So, them caring about what are done with them is "wallowing in self pity"????
GMAB