911 Call- THE TRUTH

[RiverRat]

That's mame. Great job, Sabreena - I love how you cut to the chase!

Maybe she can clear up a few matters for us while she is here.

In Nancy's interviews with law enforcement, she claimed that John Ramsey molested her when she was a child. She also reported the same thing in regards to Fleet White.

Mame made friends with Nancy, a/k/a "The Witness" and set out to avenge her honor. Thank goodness, Fleet was not damaged as a credible witness............can't say that for others though.

Turns out that the only real mystery is where is Nancy now and why mame's home forum now is John Ramseys stomping grounds? Does this mean that mame has changed her opinion, again?

RR

 

[candy]

Fleet White has hurt his own credibility as a witness with own actions. Like Donald Foster, it's his own actions that have hurt his credibility, not what others tried in vain to do to him. Fleet White got himself jailed for contempt of court, not Nancy Krebs, not the Ramseys, not Alex Hunter, but Fleet White through his own actions of contempt got himself a jail sentence. That hurts his credibility and the fact that he does not want the public to see his sworn deposition testimony in the Wolf case. And his lawsuits that have been dismissed for having no evidence, like his recent one against DA David Thomas in Jefferson County where, uncoincidentally, Fleet was jailed for contempt.

 

[Shylock]

Originally posted by DejaNu
The only important thing to keep in mind is that this 911 tape was preserved evidence in a homicide case and therefore should not be erased, modified, appended or molested in any fashion by anyone.

Not exactly true, Deja. Did you ever see a report that was ordered under the freedom of information act where they had blackened-out areas on the page that are still confidential? They would have done the same here on the audio tape by just erasing the area they want to keep confidential. Neither the BPD or Keenan are under any mandate to release evidence as being complete.

 

[Nedthan Johns]

The operator only says Patsy four times and it’s followed by about five or six seconds of noise, probably keyboard typing that somehow this aerospace corporation allegedly came up with the conversation between Ramsey family members...

Ned: Probably keyboard typing? Probably implies he doesn't know either. Why would ANY aerospace corporation give a DAMN about what is said on a 911 tape in a murder case? Even more proff what they heard wasn't made up.

 

[RiverRat]

Candy - are you saying that without The Ramseys, Alex Hunter and Krebs/mame targeting him to pin a homicide charge on, Fleet's own actions would have resulted in his arrest?

BTW - Do you still recommend forwarding posts to Fleet's attorney?

RR

 

[candy]

Here's what the Judge said about Fleet White's excuse, it had nothing whatsoever to do with his legal responsibility to honor a subpoena in court, and threw him in jail for the maximum, one month, in jail:

http://www.cybersleuths.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=003214#000018

Mr. White took it upon himself to decide whether or not the subpoena is one that should be honored.
Exhibit A submitted on behalf of Mr. White and consisting of some six and a half pages is essentially not relevant or material to this proceeding with very, very few exceptions, most of which I have now stated in this ruling. Mr. White’s view of the Ramsey case and of all of the events surrounding the Ramsey case has absolutely nothing to do with his obligation or the obligation of any other citizen to comply with a properly served subpoena unless and until an order has been entered quashing that subpoena.
What this Court frequently finds it necessary to say both in criminal cases involving serious crimes and in domestic relations cases and sometimes in civil cases is, Mr. White, and this applies to everybody, you don’t get to make the rules. And you thought you did even after Judge Tidball made it clear to you that you didn’t. The subpoena that was served upon – the subpoenas that were served upon Mr. White, although this probably isn’t terribly relevant, were subpoenas caused to be served by Gary Lozow, a highly competent and responsible criminal defense attorney. And it is not up to Mr. White or any other witness in any case to decide “Well, I don’t think there was any legitimate basis for me to be subpoenaed, so I just won’t go.”
This Court has been involved in the legal process for over 40 years and often in those 40 years, and frankly mostly in civil cases, has encountered people like Mr. White who think they either know enough about the underlying case or their time is too important that they decide they will not comply with subpoenas. It happens with physicians, it happens with politicians, it happens with celebrities. And one of the messages that the Court has to send by the sentencing in this case is none of those people get to make the rules. And when a doctor gets subpoenaed in a personal injury case or when a celebrity gets subpoenaed in a domestic violence case or whatever the situation may be, the law does not treat people differently depending on their view of the underlying matter.
In this case, we’re dealing with a college educated successful businessman, a mature man. And yet, what has been presented to the Court is six and a half pages of unwarranted and baseless explanations as to why this individual, just like any other individual in our society, should not be required to respond to legally served subpoenas.

 

[DejaNu]

Candy, you've got to be kidding? FW got himself jailed for civil contempt of a subpoena and that's a BIG friggin' deal? Maybe where you live, kiddo, but here in the real world, that ain't chit. False/fabricated testimony to incriminate FW in disgusting child sexual exploitation matters and public savagery of his reputation on the basis that such phoney testimony is truth is a far greater moral and legal crime than civil contempt with a jail overnight could EVER be.

But I wonder if you'd be so incredibly disparaging if Mame got jailed for refusing to reveal a source. Would that make her the same kind of you promote FW to be????

Sabrina, no no no! The editing methodology you reference in the above post is known as redacting and under laws and FOIA, only personal info like addresses and phone numbers, social security numbers, may be legally removed from evidence. If you will listen to the tape again, we can clearly hear Patsy Ramsey state her full address. If this were merely a redacted version for public release, that tidbit of personal info would have been redacted, but it wasn't. The redaction defense doesn't fly, see?

 

[candy]

He didn't refuse to give up a source. He didn't have any excuse like that. His excuse, as the Judge said, was one the Judge was all to familiar with. He can't be bothered to honor this subpoena, thus, he got himself put in jail.
John Fernie honored a subpoena. FW couldn't be bothered to show up, in the opinion of the judge who jailed him.

Then of course, he was subpoenaed in the Wolf case, and unlike the prime suspects who could potentially face the death penalty and opened every word of their deposition to public scrutiny, Fleet locked up every word of his.

 

[Show Me]

Curious Candy...for years you suported Fleet. Why the about face now?

 

[candy]

I never supported Fleet White's open contempt of the Court in the Miller case ever. I spoke out about it well before he was jailed, saying he had hurt himself immeasurably as a witness in the Ramsey case forever by getting himself tossed in jail. You don't see the Ramseys acting in contempt of the cases they have had to be subpoenaed and give depositions in. They are smart and would never do such a thing to destroy their credibility.

I never supported ST when he didn't take a subpoena from the Ramseys in the Wolf case either. That hurt him with Judge Carnes.

I never supported either of them or anyone else who tried to seal their sworn legal depositions, when the Ramseys were opening theirs and making a big deal of the matter of people who were sealing them to the attorneys.

 

[Shylock]

Originally posted by DejaNu
The editing methodology you reference in the above post is known as redacting and under laws and FOIA, only personal info like addresses and phone numbers, social security numbers, may be legally removed from evidence.

I don't know where you get that idea, but it's wrong. Maybe you are thinking about court depositions or something. People are getting evidence files from the FBI now under the Freedom of Information Act and sometimes half the file is blacked out because it's still case-sensitive.

If Keenan or the BPD wants to edit the 911 tape and release it that's their perogative.

 

[Correy]

That tape is not the same as a transcript. It is EVIDENCE. Whoever tampered with it is in beeg trouble.

 

[Toltec]

I heard Patsy say Help Me Jesus, Help Me Jesus, Help me Jesus...then static. (no more typewriter clicking away.

Looks like the portion after Patsy's cry for Jesus was erased.

Where can I get a copy of the 911 tape? Do I get in touch with the DA's office in Boulder?

 

[Blazeboy3]

http://63.147.65.175/news/jon0821a.htm

and then re-read!!!


At the end of Patsy's frantic call, the receiver apparently was left off the hook. With the call still being recorded, voices could be heard in the background.

Patsy Ramsey can be heard screaming, and then a voice that police believe may be Burke's begs to help and asks what has been found, the source said.

Then, a voice identified as John Ramsey's is heard saying, "It's none of your business. Go back to bed. This doesn't pertain to you,'' or words to that effect, the source said.

Police sent a tape of the 911 call, which was made at 5:52 a.m., Dec. 26, 1996, to a laboratory to be enhanced.

Police Chief Mark Beckner declined to comment.

"We will not talk about the specifics of the case,'' he said.

 

[Shylock]

Originally posted by Toltec
I heard Patsy say Help Me Jesus, Help Me Jesus, Help me Jesus...then static. (no more typewriter clicking away.
Looks like the portion after Patsy's cry for Jesus was erased.
Where can I get a copy of the 911 tape? Do I get in touch with the DA's office in Boulder?

Patsy only says "help me jesus" twice. What she says before and after that is not very audible but sounds like "help me" without the "jesus" part.

Then there is a 5-second gap where they erased Burke and John's voice before they released the tape. After the gap the sound resumes for another few seconds until the recording ends for good.

You can get your own copy of both the tape and (or) CD by contacting D.A. Keenan's office.

 

[Britt]

Originally posted by Blazeboy3
Patsy Ramsey can be heard screaming...

(above quote from the Denver Post article)

Patsy is not screaming, not even close. It's more like a chant or a moan... eerie, actually.

 

[TLynn]

Toltec,

Did John really say "We have said to ourselves, look, there is never going to be a victory in this, there is no victory..."JR 6/24/98

"Victory" was in the RN - I also heard John once say on a TV show - "proper burial."

Didn't mean to stray from the 911 call (but I'm one of those that heard it on TV before joining the forum - so, I already know it exisits with Burke & John on it).

 

[DejaNu]

Shylock, where I am "getting" my info about redaction is from 30 years in the practice of law. Redaction is the general term of legal editing of anything, including evidence. Specifically, if a civil or criminal case is ongoing, redaction to written forms of evidence as well as tape recordings may be heavily redacted to preclude any tangible evidence by which the public distribution of would create a substantial harm to the prosecution. In cases that have been adjudicated or where evidence has previously and already been disclosed, the redaction of any written or tape recorded evidence is usually limited to personal info because public disclosure to such evidence either has already been done or would not impact a closed case.

In the case of this 911 tape, we do not know if the original recording and the original enhanced version have been preserved since Keenan took over the case. We know that Aerospace Corp. was provided a certified copy of the original, probably by way of a custodial affidavit from the BPD. That certification means that the copy provided to Aerospace was a true and correct copy of the original recording meaning no redactions, alterations, etc. or an EXACT replica of the original recording. This is important.

We do know that generational copies in at least two formats have been released publicly, one of which has now surfaced as allegedly altered in a substantially material way. Legal redaction would remove personal information without necessity of eliminating evidence since that evidence has already been made public. Therefore, there is no legal reason why this suspect copy with partial erasure by magnet of a highly controversial issue to the case would have been needed for legal purposes to preserve the investigation. This is true especially when considering the party who has been publicly releasing this version with explanation that it is "proof" that John and Burke's voices were never recorded! This is also highly important and revealing.

Any generational copy of either the original recording or the original certified enhanced version that is not legally redacted but illegally altered constitutes evidence tampering, obstruction of justice and several other criminal acts. It does not matter if the original of either remains intact. The fact that a generational copy was released publicly and has now allegedly been found to contain erasure of evidence to be promoted as truth could only be construed as evidence tampering. Who did the actual tampering is a more vital issue at this point.

 

[Shylock]

Originally posted by DejaNu
In the case of this 911 tape, we do not know if the original recording and the original enhanced version have been preserved since Keenan took over the case.

What's with all the hoopla. We don't know if the garrote has been preserved. We don't know if the negatives of the autopsy photo still exist. We don't know anything, so why get your panties in a knot.


Any generational copy of either the original recording or the original certified enhanced version that is not legally redacted but illegally altered constitutes evidence tampering, obstruction of justice and several other criminal acts.

Hogwash. Keenan is under no mandate to release evidence to the public AT ALL. And she's certainly under no obligation to release evidence in its entirety. The Ramseys have not been charged with a crime. When/if they are, their lawyer will be able to see the complete/unaltered evidence. Until then Keenan can do whatever she wants with the evidence in regard to public and private release.


Therefore, there is no legal reason why this suspect copy with partial erasure by magnet of a highly controversial issue to the case would have been needed for legal purposes to preserve the investigation.

What meathead came up with this "erasure by magnet" crap anyway? The sound file is on a CD. It's stored on the CD in DIGITAL format--meaning stored AS NUMBERS. You couldn't tell if the erasure was by "magnet" any more then if it was by "shotgun"...LOL

There is a 5-second gap in the recording after Patsy's voice is heard. It's logical to assume the gap is located where John and Burke are heard talking. That part was not released to the public because it's important evidence which proves the Ramseys are not telling the truth about what happened that morning. There is no way of telling what method was used to omit that part of the recording and create the 5-second gap. The only question is, who omitted that part, the BPD or DA (or both).

JMO

 

[Tricia]

Wouldn't Keenan be morally obligated to tell us something had been "redacted" from the 911 tape? After all when you do get something from the Freedom of Information Act you can at least tell something has been redacted by the black lines.

If the original 911 tape has not been altered then I think Keenan would be in the clear.

However it is very unethical not to tell us if something has been removed.

Shylock I am curious as to how much experience you have with recovery of digital data because only a meathead would assume they know everything unless they are involved in the new technology on a daily basis.

The CD was created from a cassette tape which was created from the original 911 tape. All data is on the CD from the tape even though an apparent attempt to alter the data was made.

How in the world did NBC miss Patsy saying, "Help me Jesus?"

Lin Wood has been proven a liar. I hope someone has told sent him the link to the FFJ thread about the 911 call. He is so busted.

Here is the link to the call.

http://www.jonbenetramsey.org/patsy911-FFJ.mp3

Here is the link to the thread.

http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3730

Feel free to pass this along to Wood. I would do it myself but I don't think he would open my email