911 Call

[Nom de plume]

:seeya:GLAD TO HAVE YOU POSTING, CircuitGuy. My Smilie chart doesn't want to come up right now, or I'd give you the WELCOME signs too.

I'll help you out MM.

:welcome: CircuitGuy!

 

[dodie20]

about this call. If you go to youtube and listen to the regular 911s, not the enhanced ones, you can hear the background voices after PR 'hangs up the phone'. Now, what is being said is a whole other story. The experts have disagreed from one spectrum to the other...all the way from hearing no voices, to hearing an angry man, a young child, and PR saying, 'help me Jesus'. I hear the voices, so I have no doubt there's a conversation, but I'm not convinced about the young child. The Rs originally claimed that BR slept through everything. BR reportedly later claimed he was actually awake, but stayed in bed. JR later changed his story to accommodate this version, (through an enquirer interview, I believe). What I think may have happened after PR 'hung up the phone' was that SHE and JR had a conversation, minus BR. When BR was younger, (don't know about now), he seemed to tell the truth in spite of what his parents were saying-like JB being awake and walking into the house that night. Also, I read a reporter's account of his personal observations on PR. One of his points that jumped out at me, was that she was very child like at times and spoke like a little girl. So, I'm wondering if after her panicked sounding 911, she then reverted to a child's voice? Maybe it was something she did when she knew JR was mad at her? IDK, just guessing, but I'm not willing to assume BR was lying about staying in his bed. MOO.

 

[midwest mama]

I think there must be more to it than wishful thinking. I can't recall the names, but detectives from Boulder, and technicians from Aerospace all listened to he enhanced version, and all wrote down what they heard. They all wrote the same thing. If I recall it was a total of 4 people. It's hard to believe 4 people all imagined the same thing.

In addition to Kolar, ST also mentions this, and I see no reason to think he's lying.

What's puzzling is that if the enhanced version hasn't been made public, then how can people have heard it? Yet many claim they have.

IIRC, Geraldo Rivera played the enhanced version on one of his shows some years back. Some managed to capture the show on home recorders, and I also think there have been some posters here who claim they heard it.

I also seem to recall reading the episode disappeared from archive records kept by the show and studio soon after the airing. Kind of like the missing phone records, some of the police records, etc........

Long time no post, dodie - nice to see you back. I could agree that PR might revert to a childlike voice with JR. But, unless JR was using the royal "we" in "We're not speaking to you", that should indicate he is speaking for two (Patsy and him)??

Here's an article that has some references that are interesting from:
http://www.today.com/id/3079093/ns/today-today_hidden/t/new-video-audio-ramsey-case/

Just what happened after Patsy hung up the phone has been debated in law enforcement circles. One former Boulder police detective, Steve Thomas, believes after Patsy hung up, the phone didn’t really disconnect.
In his book, “JonBenet: Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation,” Thomas claimed that by enhancing the tape you can hear John and Patsy talking to their son Burke. He claims that’s important because the Ramseys reportedly told police their son was asleep at the time of the call. If true, Thomas claims it suggests the family was altering their story right from the start.

But both the FBI and Secret Service — who examined the tapes — said such a conversation could not be heard.

NBC News had the tape tested by experts at two different labs that examine 911 tapes to see if there was any conversation after the hang up.
“I would say my findings are much more in parallel with the FBI’s findings. There’s not enough there to give any sort of conclusive, intelligible argument,” says Frank Piazza of Legal Audio in New York City.

David Mariasy from Team Audio in Toledo, Ohio, agrees. “When it was suggested that we look for these other lines of dialogue and there’s two or three other people after the hang up, that didn’t happen,” he says.

During an interrogation about the call, Patsy Ramsey questioned one of the Boulder police detectives about his assertion there was a conversation after she had hung up the phone.
Police: “Was there any conversation immediately following your last word to the dispatcher?”
Patsy: “I don’t remember. I was out of my mind. My child was missing. I was trying to convey that to the person on the other end of the line. OK? I don’t remember. If you have it on tape, and you’d like me to hear it, I’ll listen to it and see if that jogs my memory.”
Police: “It’s on tape.”
Patsy: “OK.”
Police: “OK.
Patsy: “All right. Well if you’ve got it on the tape and we can play it, then I will try to help you. But I can’t remember which end was up about that time.”
At which point the detective changes the subject.


One of the things that makes this case so confusing is all the conflicting information published in the public domain.

 

[Chrishope]

about this call. If you go to youtube and listen to the regular 911s, not the enhanced ones, you can hear the background voices after PR 'hangs up the phone'. Now, what is being said is a whole other story. The experts have disagreed from one spectrum to the other...all the way from hearing no voices, to hearing an angry man, a young child, and PR saying, 'help me Jesus'. I hear the voices, so I have no doubt there's a conversation, but I'm not convinced about the young child. The Rs originally claimed that BR slept through everything. BR reportedly later claimed he was actually awake, but stayed in bed. JR later changed his story to accommodate this version, (through an enquirer interview, I believe). What I think may have happened after PR 'hung up the phone' was that SHE and JR had a conversation, minus BR. When BR was younger, (don't know about now), he seemed to tell the truth in spite of what his parents were saying-like JB being awake and walking into the house that night. Also, I read a reporter's account of his personal observations on PR. One of his points that jumped out at me, was that she was very child like at times and spoke like a little girl. So, I'm wondering if after her panicked sounding 911, she then reverted to a child's voice? Maybe it was something she did when she knew JR was mad at her? IDK, just guessing, but I'm not willing to assume BR was lying about staying in his bed. MOO.

I can hear "Help me Jesus" about 4 times, but not JR/BR.

 

[UKGuy]

IIRC, Geraldo Rivera played the enhanced version on one of his shows some years back. Some managed to capture the show on home recorders, and I also think there have been some posters here who claim they heard it.

I also seem to recall reading the episode disappeared from archive records kept by the show and studio soon after the airing. Kind of like the missing phone records, some of the police records, etc........

Long time no post, dodie - nice to see you back. I could agree that PR might revert to a childlike voice with JR. But, unless JR was using the royal "we" in "We're not speaking to you", that should indicate he is speaking for two (Patsy and him)??

Here's an article that has some references that are interesting from:
http://www.today.com/id/3079093/ns/today-today_hidden/t/new-video-audio-ramsey-case/

Just what happened after Patsy hung up the phone has been debated in law enforcement circles. One former Boulder police detective, Steve Thomas, believes after Patsy hung up, the phone didn’t really disconnect.
In his book, “JonBenet: Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation,” Thomas claimed that by enhancing the tape you can hear John and Patsy talking to their son Burke. He claims that’s important because the Ramseys reportedly told police their son was asleep at the time of the call. If true, Thomas claims it suggests the family was altering their story right from the start.

But both the FBI and Secret Service — who examined the tapes — said such a conversation could not be heard.

NBC News had the tape tested by experts at two different labs that examine 911 tapes to see if there was any conversation after the hang up.
“I would say my findings are much more in parallel with the FBI’s findings. There’s not enough there to give any sort of conclusive, intelligible argument,” says Frank Piazza of Legal Audio in New York City.

David Mariasy from Team Audio in Toledo, Ohio, agrees. “When it was suggested that we look for these other lines of dialogue and there’s two or three other people after the hang up, that didn’t happen,” he says.

During an interrogation about the call, Patsy Ramsey questioned one of the Boulder police detectives about his assertion there was a conversation after she had hung up the phone.
Police: “Was there any conversation immediately following your last word to the dispatcher?”
Patsy: “I don’t remember. I was out of my mind. My child was missing. I was trying to convey that to the person on the other end of the line. OK? I don’t remember. If you have it on tape, and you’d like me to hear it, I’ll listen to it and see if that jogs my memory.”
Police: “It’s on tape.”
Patsy: “OK.”
Police: “OK.
Patsy: “All right. Well if you’ve got it on the tape and we can play it, then I will try to help you. But I can’t remember which end was up about that time.”
At which point the detective changes the subject.


One of the things that makes this case so confusing is all the conflicting information published in the public domain.

midwest mama,
So if ST is wrong, and he misheard the tape, suggesting BR was absent. Why then should PR subsequently change her story about BR being asleep. Whats the percentage there?

I reckon the R's continually tweaked their version of events all way and possibly after JonBenet was discovered.

DocG's theory states JR hoodwinked PR via the RN, and that she dialled 911 when JR thought she might not?

Yet in the time between the 911 call and the police arriving she has decided that BR has been sleeping in his bed all this time, later she amends this.

So why does Patsy need to fabricate a version of events for BR if its her that is been duped?

.

 

[midwest mama]

midwest mama,
So if ST is wrong, and he misheard the tape, suggesting BR was absent. Why then should PR subsequently change her story about BR being asleep. Whats the percentage there?

I reckon the R's continually tweaked their version of events all way and possibly after JonBenet was discovered.

DocG's theory states JR hoodwinked PR via the RN, and that she dialled 911 when JR thought she might not?

Yet in the time between the 911 call and the police arriving she has decided that BR has been sleeping in his bed all this time, later she amends this.

So why does Patsy need to fabricate a version of events for BR if its her that is been duped?

.

C'mon UK - we've already danced this dance, haven't we? But, what the heck!

If BR came down from his room to overhear some of the call as it was being made, he may have had questions. If JR was there and upset at PR for putting in a call to 911 when he assumed she would read the note and NOT call, he might have been terse with BR and tried to stifle him. Last thing he needed at that time was his son getting worked up too.

Patsy, being mother bear, might have wanted to try to keep BR from being the object of JR's wrath, and also from becoming too upset by what the next 10 minutes might produce. It might have been a protective measure of hers to go to Burke and quickly assist him back to bed, telling him that JB needed their help, and they would come get him as soon as they could - just please stay here for now and they would be back soon.

Patsy and JR might have been unwilling to admit BR was not on the spot at the time as a protective measure - no need to add that confusion to the mix, and every reason to expect they would want to spare him any of the trauma that was unfolding.

When the R's later admitted that BR was in the immediate area as the call was being made, they had a solid IDI theory being promoted by the RST, and they had been told the call had been analyzed showing BR's voice could have been on it. Better to cop to the "catch" and rationalize trying to spare their child unnecessary trauma or that they were too traumatized to remember those details, than to keep up the ruse if there was real evidence against it. The public might buy that.

After all, there was lots of "I don't seem to recall" later on, wasn't there?

All :moo:

 

[DeDee]

Linda7NJ, the informative article you posted reminded me of something I heard a few months ago and did not see it posted in this thread.

In February 2013, statement analyst, Peter Hyatt, offered points to consider when listening to Patsy's deceptive 911 call. He begins by explaining examples of indicators for child sex abuse that behooves all of us to be aware of.

Interestingly enough, PH also mentions Amanda Knox in this discussion as well as Casey Anthony, Zahra Baker, Baby Lisa and Haleigh Cummins.

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/insidelenz/2013/01/23/crime-wire

What’s even more telling (I think) is the conversation going on before Patsy realized the call had been answered. It was left off from the transcript -- only referred to as “inaudible”. Her first recorded words were, “..., Hun. Hun, we need a (or “to”, or “the”)...” and then word “Police!” She’s already talking (not to the 911 operator) when the first click of the call being answered sounds, and it’s like she’s still talking to someone else before it registers in her mind that the call has been answered. Then she immediately goes into her “emergency” voice and says, “Police! 7, 5, 5, Fifteenth Street.” That is when she goes into her out-of-breath, “emergency” voice. Before the word “Police!” it’s more like a tired but comforting, motherly voice.

Listen for yourself:
http://www.acandyrose.com/patsy911-FFJ.mp3
.

Hun. Hun, we need a (or “to”, or “the”)...” and then word “Police!”

Mr. Hyatt mentions that when a caller addresses the 911 operator with a greeting then it is considered telling.

During an interrogation about the call, Patsy Ramsey questioned one of the Boulder police detectives about his assertion there was a conversation after she had hung up the phone.
Police: “Was there any conversation immediately following your last word to the dispatcher?”
Patsy: “I don’t remember. I was out of my mind. My child was missing. I was trying to convey that to the person on the other end of the line. OK? I don’t remember. If you have it on tape, and you’d like me to hear it, I’ll listen to it and see if that jogs my memory.”
Police: “It’s on tape.”
Patsy: “OK.”
Police: “OK.
Patsy: “All right. Well if you’ve got it on the tape and we can play it, then I will try to help you. But I can’t remember which end was up about that time.”
At which point the detective changes the subject.

Peter Hyatt offers telling explanations for word choices.

Thanks to Sogren, post #4, for providing the 911 transcript. When PH gets to the 911 analysis in the interview, it may be helpful to follow along.

PR: (inaudible) police.
911: (inaudible)
PR: 755 Fifteenth Street
911: What is going on there ma’am?
PR: We have a kidnapping...Hurry, please
911: Explain to me what is going on, ok?
PR: We have a ...There’s a note left and our daughter is gone
911: A note was left and your daughter is gone?
PR: Yes.
911: How old is you daughter?
PR: She is six years old she is blond...six years old
911: How long ago was this?
PR: I don’t know. Just found a note a note and my daughter is missing
911: Does it say who took her?
PR: What?
911: Does it say who took her?
PR: No I don’t know it’s there...there is a ransom note here.
911: It’s a ransom note.
PR: It says S.B.T.C. Victory...please
911: Ok, what’s your name? Are you...
PR: Patsy Ramsey...I am the mother. Oh my God. Please.
911: I’m...Ok, I’m sending an officer over, ok?
PR: Please.
911: Do you know how long she’s been gone?
PR: No, I don’t, please, we just got up and she’s not here. Oh my God Please.
911: Ok.
PR: Please send somebody.
911: I am, honey.
PR: Please.
911: Take a deep breath (inaudible).
PR: Hurry, hurry, hurry (inaudible).
911: Patsy? Patsy? Patsy? Patsy? Patsy?

As Peter Hyatt notices during the 911 call, Patsy does not say: She has blond hair. Instead, she implies: She is [a] blond [female]. Why? PH reveals much more chilling information for us to consider.

 

[Venom]

What’s even more telling (I think) is the conversation going on before Patsy realized the call had been answered. It was left off from the transcript -- only referred to as “inaudible”. Her first recorded words were, “..., Hun. Hun, we need a (or “to”, or “the&#8221...” and then word “Police!” She’s already talking (not to the 911 operator) when the first click of the call being answered sounds, and it’s like she’s still talking to someone else before it registers in her mind that the call has been answered. Then she immediately goes into her “emergency” voice and says, “Police! 7, 5, 5, Fifteenth Street.” That is when she goes into her out-of-breath, “emergency” voice. Before the word “Police!” it’s more like a tired but comforting, motherly voice.

Listen for yourself:
http://www.acandyrose.com/patsy911-FFJ.mp3
.

BBM- We've talked about dumping the body somewhere and PR not wanting that. Could that be what is going on while waiting for 911 to answer? Her telling JR, hun we got to (call the police)?

Edited to add: I could swear I read that PR says something to the we got to effect.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Linda7NJ, the informative article you posted reminded me of something I heard a few months ago and did not see it posted in this thread.

In February 2013, statement analyst, Peter Hyatt, offered points to consider when listening to Patsy's deceptive 911 call. He begins by explaining examples of indicators for child sex abuse that behooves all of us to be aware of.

Interestingly enough, PH also mentions Amanda Knox in this discussion as well as Casey Anthony, Zahra Baker, Baby Lisa and Haleigh Cummins.

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/insidelenz/2013/01/23/crime-wire





Mr. Hyatt mentions that when a caller addresses the 911 operator with a greeting then it is considered telling.




Peter Hyatt offers telling explanations for word choices.



As Peter Hyatt notices during the 911 call, Patsy does not say: She has blond hair. Instead, she implies: She is [a] blond [female]. Why? PH reveals much more chilling information for us to consider.

I can't hear the Hun hun... Sounds like crying mumblings to me.

I found the 911 call to be oscar worthy. IMO
I think, as a mother, I empathize with her projected pain too much and found it pretty darn believable. I give Patsy's acting two thumbs up.






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[otg]

I can't hear the Hun hun... Sounds like crying mumblings to me.

I found the 911 call to be oscar worthy. IMO
I think, as a mother, I empathize with her projected pain too much and found it pretty darn believable. I give Patsy's acting two thumbs up.

Try listening to it from these recordings...

This is just the beginning eight seconds of the 911 call:
http://www.mediafire.com/listen/hfi0fb6i0hex8io/jbr-911-begining.mp3

This is the full 911 recording. The connection is made about ten seconds in from the start:
http://www.mediafire.com/listen/fu3erup3bheq73c/Version-2.mp3

(The first "Hun" seems to be at the end of a sentence, and the second one the start of a new sentence that is interrupted by the 911 operator answering the phone.)

 

[Linda7NJ]

Try listening to it from these recordings...

This is just the beginning eight seconds of the 911 call:
http://www.mediafire.com/listen/hfi0fb6i0hex8io/jbr-911-begining.mp3

This is the full 911 recording. The connection is made about ten seconds in from the start:
http://www.mediafire.com/listen/fu3erup3bheq73c/Version-2.mp3

(The first "Hun" seems to be at the end of a sentence, and the second one the start of a new sentence that is interrupted by the 911 operator answering the phone.)

Listened...and listened, put my head phones on...
I can't hear it.
It's probably just me though, I'm one of those people than can never make out EVP recordings, I've never heard ( except on Geraldo) Burke on the 911 call at the end. I couldn't make out what he said without the subtitles on Geraldo.
I can never see faces in pictures of smoke, Jesus in toast, animals in clouds....my brain focuses in on all the missing parts..apparently other peoples fill in those missing parts.
I'm just a weirdo.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free

 

[Let_Forever_Be]

I know there has been claims that 3 voices are on the 911 call: Patsy, John and Burke. Some claim to have heard it. Some cannot hear it.

But is the fact that the Ramseys changed their original story from Burke being asleep to being awake that morning perhaps evidence of the fact they were trying to perhaps explain why his voice might have ( was?) on the tape should absolute evidence of it emerge? They were trying to pre-empt the possible suspicions thrown their way?

If anyone knows when the Ramseys changed their account vs when tests were done on the tape, I suppose that would cast light on the issue.

Yay or nay?

 

[madeleine]

Listened...and listened, put my head phones on...
I can't hear it.
It's probably just me though, I'm one of those people than can never make out EVP recordings, I've never heard ( except on Geraldo) Burke on the 911 call at the end. I couldn't make out what he said without the subtitles on Geraldo.
I can never see faces in pictures of smoke, Jesus in toast, animals in clouds....my brain focuses in on all the missing parts..apparently other peoples fill in those missing parts.
I'm just a weirdo.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free

same here...
and even if I am RDI this is one of the things I don't trust so much...it also would have been a huge risk to have BR near the phone when she called 911...:moo:

 

[dodie20]

Listened...and listened, put my head phones on...
I can't hear it.
It's probably just me though, I'm one of those people than can never make out EVP recordings, I've never heard ( except on Geraldo) Burke on the 911 call at the end. I couldn't make out what he said without the subtitles on Geraldo.
I can never see faces in pictures of smoke, Jesus in toast, animals in clouds....my brain focuses in on all the missing parts..apparently other peoples fill in those missing parts.
I'm just a weirdo.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free

I hear the voices and conversation, but I can't make out what they're saying and I'm not convinced that BR's voice is on the call. IMO, it could be PR and JR. BR said he was awake but in bed. And I sure don't hear the ' hun we need em'. And the inflections sound wrong for the 'help me Jesus' stuff. What I hear is a very angry 'what did you do, what did you do' and then someone answers with a soft 'nothing'.

 

[chlban]

Chrishope;7969393

I've always wondered if LS was paid by the Rs. He doesn't seem like a man who is easily taken in.

My first reaction was to shrug this off as unlikely, but then I remembered they bought John Douglas. So, I guess buying LS as well is not such a stretch.

Amazing what money can buy.

 

[ShadyLady]

Hi everyone.

I just finished John R's book. Does anyone think it odd that he got involved (after PR died) with a volunteer group that goes to India and works with very young women forced into lifelong prostitution??

{Ops....just noticed this is 911 call thread!}

 

[gramcracker]

I tried otg's link and it works but the tape won't play for me. is it the version rendered by Aerospace? anyway, these are some old WS 911 links and one from acandyrose with the history of the enhanced tape

2005: [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21416"]enhanced 911 call - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]


2008: [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75425"]"Geraldo" Show W/Enhanced Ramsey 911 Tape... - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]


1998-2004: http://www.acandyrose.com/s-geraldo911tape.htm

 

[questfortrue]

I tried otg's link and it works but the tape won't play for me. is it the version rendered by Aerospace? anyway, these are some old WS 911 links and one from acandyrose with the history of the enhanced tape

2005: enhanced 911 call - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


2008: "Geraldo" Show W/Enhanced Ramsey 911 Tape... - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


1998-2004: http://www.acandyrose.com/s-geraldo911tape.htm

Back in 2008 on WS was a discussion about the enhanced tapes and what was aired one time on Geraldo Show. Supposedly, it was aired only one time, then the tape (for legal reasons) was not played again and transcript was redacted. Several old-time WS’ers said they heard it, though there was disagreement whether it was Geraldo’s or another program. Perhaps someone else can answer this for me, but I’m not sure that the reproductions now on the internet today are enhanced versions. I know that there is something said, but since a number of us can’t make anything out of it, perhaps we’re not hearing what was played on Geraldo’s show so many years ago, nor the tape which Aeronautics Corp enhanced?

 

[UKGuy]

Hi everyone.

I just finished John R's book. Does anyone think it odd that he got involved (after PR died) with a volunteer group that goes to India and works with very young women forced into lifelong prostitution??

{Ops....just noticed this is 911 call thread!}

ShadyLady,
Odd, not at all. Thats JR's modus operandi, please excuse the latin.

JR is simply embracing the risen christ motif to equate his suffering with that of christ!

His ignorance regarding the placing of young girls into temple prostitution is indicitive of his christology.

.

 

[blefuscu]

The problem with these tapes is the power of suggestion. Once you know what you're supposed to hear then that's what you will hear. And some tape videos on YouTube even have subtitles so you can read what you're meant to hear. I can hear something on the tapes but I can't say what it is I hear as it's not clear to me.