A good read - Black Tape and other interesting bits

[aussiesheila]

There's another thread about panties, where I guess this discussion has gone to, but I've been asking for years and never got an answer,

"Do Colorado or Atlanta or W. Va. artists ever use black duct tape for transporting paintings? In Michigan they don't. For any exhibit, picture WIRE has to be attached by eye screws exactly 2 and 1/2 inches down. Masking tape is used during the painting,just to keep the back clean, and you have a large portfolio, a form of luggage, flat, in which to carry the finished creation, some with the handle located at the bottom so you carry it under your arm. There are metal clips at art supply stores for fastening a canvas into its frame.

It's possible a painting could be too big for a standard portfolio, but PR's were never described as particularly large, and black duct tape still wouldn't likely be useful in any way that I can think of.

Eagle1, I think the piece of duct tape was already in that basement from some time prior to December 25. But I don't see why it would have had to have come from a painting, it could have come from anything, I would have thought. There was an incredible amount of junk in that basement and there could very well have been some package that had duct tape around it that was opened down there and bits of duct tape from it left lying around.

I think that one of the people involved in the coverup saw the duct tape on the floor or wherever, and got the bright idea that having a piece of it across the mouth of the body they had on their hands and intended dumping in the mountains, would add an element of authenticity to the planned 'she was the victim of a kidnapper' scenario, so they picked it up and put it on JonBenet's body after she had been killed.

 

[Eagle1]

Yes. Maybe the black duct tape was in the train room, or, used to tape down Christmas lights wiring, some of which was run through unlocked slightly open windows, any of which someone could have used for easier entry than the basement window.

 

[UKGuy]

If Jonbenet dressed herself to go to the Whites dinner she may have put on the size 12 panties AND the longjohns to wear under her pants. The longjohns would keep the panties from slipping down or around and hold them tight to her body because they are made to fit that way. To believe this you would have to discount the story the Ramseys tell about Jonbenet falling asleep in the car and carring JB up to her room and Patsy putting the longjohns on her. I don't believe any of that ever happened because I don't think she ever made it to bed that night. Patsy said she put them on her because she "couldn't put her hands on the pink ones she wore the night before." The PINK ones were laying right on her bed, for all to see. But Patsy has to take credit for putting the longjohns on her to prove her story of JB never waking up that night. I'll bet Patsy was shocked beyond measure when she found out about the size 12 panties. IMO she didn't know because JB put them on and then put on the longjohns and Patsy wasn't involved with her dressing for the Whites so she didn't have a clue WHAT she was wearing under there.

Bluecrab you do not know if the police have the size 6 panties in evidence or not. We do not know all of the evidence. Nobody who has gone public, Steve Thomas, Lou Smit, has given up ALL the evidence. There are still many things we don't know. The panties are one of them. If you find out differently please let us know and it will substantiate your claim.

trixie,
As you suggest , 'we do not know all of the evidence', but something we do know is that JonBenet was wiped down, and there are bloodstains on JonBenet's genitalia, that have no corresponding smudge or match on her size-12 underwear.

So it maybe Patsy was not so shocked to hear about the size-12 underwear, its entirely possible she re-dressed JonBenet!

The wine-cellar is a wholly staged crime-scene, its quite likely that JonBenet was killed at another location, there is no forensic evidence to suggest an intruder, so John, Patsy, and Burke Ramsey are all prime suspects.

There is forensic evidence that links Patsy Ramsey to the wine-cellar, but that is a staged crime-scene, so JonBenet's actual killer may be another Ramsey?


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[Eagle1]

".....and there are bloodstains on JonBenet's genitalia, that have no corresponding smudge or match on her size-12 underwear." [/QUOTE]


I like the way you put it, that the reason SOMEONE put the big panties on her was that her others contained evidence. That's right to the point.

They may have been packaged so the perp just saw the day of the week, and had no idea they'd be a different size, though. For him it was a trick drawer, a little comedy of errors within a tragedy. He probably never knew any woman who'd store wrong-size underwear in the same drawer with her child's whole supply, where it would be seen every day.

PR would have known they were the pair they'd bought for the cousin and that they were way too big ! I'm a mother several times over and just can't believe the mother would do such a thing, and think nobody would notice.

In other words, your way of saying it has sort of showed me some perp probably thought he was seeing-things when they turned out to be so big, or maybe he thought that was how they were supposed to look. Inexperience.
He was in way over his head, trying to redress her to look normal.

I don't think my hubby was ever asked to dress our little girls, as he might have put a left shoe on a right foot or something like that. He does lots of other things better than I do, of course. Trust me, a mother just would not have done that. (Or, if PR did, I'll eat my words. Plain, no mayo.) :bang:

 

[UKGuy]

".....and there are bloodstains on JonBenet's genitalia, that have no corresponding smudge or match on her size-12 underwear."

I like the way you put it, that the reason SOMEONE put the big panties on her was that her others contained evidence. That's right to the point.

They may have been packaged so the perp just saw the day of the week, and had no idea they'd be a different size, though. For him it was a trick drawer, a little comedy of errors within a tragedy. He probably never knew any woman who'd store wrong-size underwear in the same drawer with her child's whole supply, where it would be seen every day.

PR would have known they were the pair they'd bought for the cousin and that they were way too big ! I'm a mother several times over and just can't believe the mother would do such a thing, and think nobody would notice.

In other words, your way of saying it has sort of showed me some perp probably thought he was seeing-things when they turned out to be so big, or maybe he thought that was how they were supposed to look. Inexperience.
He was in way over his head, trying to redress her to look normal.

I don't think my hubby was ever asked to dress our little girls, as he might have put a left shoe on a right foot or something like that. He does lots of other things better than I do, of course. Trust me, a mother just would not have done that. (Or, if PR did, I'll eat my words. Plain, no mayo.) :bang:

Eagle1,

If you accept the wine-cellar crime-scene is largely staged, then its possible Patsy placed the size-12's on JonBenet, her reasoning may have simply been they were the correct day of the week, or that as you suggest nobody would think she would re-dress JonBenet in such a large size, in other words like the ransom note, its meant to point elsewhere.

The more central point about the size-12's and the forensic evidence or lack of, is that if she had been wearing them prior to being killed then you would expect some additional forensic evidence, possibly to match her sexual assault.

As I have speculated elsewhere I think its likely that one Ramsey staged a violent crime-scene to cover up what actually occurred elsewhere in the house.

But another Ramsey decided to revise and amend the crime-scene, e.g. wiping her down, and placing the size-12's on her, possibly to mirror the initial assumption that she may have been abducted from her bed, remember her barbie night gown lay close to her body, if she had been re-dressed in that and her gap top removed, then I suspect John and Patsy's story about placing JonBenet in bed would have been different. And Lou Smit's Intruder theory would appear much more credible!

Although it appears to be an insignificant detail, in the wine-cellar, JonBenet was wearing no socks, yet she according to Patsy and John, they cannot recollect removing her socks!

 

[Eagle1]

Well, in my very last sentence I admitted I'd eat my words if it should turn out that PR DID put the 12's on her to point to someone else just BECAUSE a mother would never put such a wrong size on her little daughter. Possible if she were the one doing all the staging and "staging within staging", but of course I've never been of the opinion she did the staging.

The suitcase containing evidence pointing to JAR, for instance, and the dictionary, also pointing to a family member, I just don't think she did.

I'll just grant you w/out having thought about it much at all, that more than one person could have done the staging, MAYBE. Haven't really thought about that, but someone might have an idea about it.

 

[Camper]

Staging entailed a LOT of busy work to be done. Was it too much for one person to have accomplished, or did it need mental input and help from another person.

Have to admit, WE have no convicted perpetrator of any kind, its been going on ten years now.

Grabbing the BIG GIRL panties in a panic could cover a quick action by a staging person. I do think the person/s who did the staging were very quick thinkers.

Good performer/s in a panic situation. Adrenalin going full speed.

IF done by one person, it was a tidy job, with no loose ends that were tied up by the BPD at least.


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[Toltec]

Does anyone subscribe to TIME Magazine? You can access the archives for free....just type in JonBenet Ramsey.

One thing I read that was unusual was that a TIME Reporter said there was duct tape on her mouth AND on her NECK!

 

[Eagle1]

Did they say all the tape was just alike, all black, like electrical tape? I've never seen black duct tape, which doesn't mean it couldn't exist, of course.

Maybe it was meant to keep the cord from cutting into her neck, meaning either that her death was an accident or that no marks would have been part of the coverup?