a "zonked" theory

[rashomon]

SuperDave:
rashomon:
Does everybody agree that Burke remembers correctly?
In that case I wonder how their family discussions go regardning this,
it's kind of :bang:

It is not about everybody agreeing that Burke rmembers correctly. All I wanted to point out is that there exist conflicting testimonies re JonBenet being asleep or awake when they got home.
And then there's the pineapple evidence, which would not fit into your theory either.

 

[sissi]

Beaten...where? Whose opinion is it that JonBenet had been beaten? I recall nothing like that in Coroner Meyer's autopsy report. He only describes her skull fracture and the wounds associated with the strangling, and the random scratches and abrasions on her body - none of which are consistent with JonBenet having been beaten.

Evidently Meyer made it clear enough that it's been broadcast since the beginning and has been acknowledged by all. We "must" consider this, we DO NOT have all of the evidence, we have the "leaks", and when you have only leaks to go on, THAT'S when you have to consider the sources and their motives.

I don't remember if ST put "beaten" in his book, I don't remember if Schiller did, or any of the others, either. But, if they neglected to include this fact it would "only" be to promote a theory based on "chosen" information. We can't solve this case without including All information.

 

[Nuisanceposter]

As if I place great stock upon what the media has to say about Meyer's autopsy.

I googled "JonBenet beaten" and got a number of links that mention "JonBenet's beaten and strangled body" being found. That is not Meyer's phrase, that is what all of the newspapers reported - the exact same phrase "beaten and strangled". I believe the "beaten" part refers to the fact that her skull fractured...not that her entire body had been beaten, or that there was evidence of her being beaten anywhere on her body other than on her little head.

You mean the leaks coming right out of Alex Hunter's office? Yes, that was terrible. That man ought to be made to answer for his unprofessionalism in the JonBenet Ramsey murder investigation.

 

[sissi]

As if I place great stock upon what the media has to say about Meyer's autopsy.

I googled "JonBenet beaten" and got a number of links that mention "JonBenet's beaten and strangled body" being found. That is not Meyer's phrase, that is what all of the newspapers reported - the exact same phrase "beaten and strangled". I believe the "beaten" part refers to the fact that her skull fractured...not that her entire body had been beaten, or that there was evidence of her being beaten anywhere on her body other than on her little head.

You mean the leaks coming right out of Alex Hunter's office? Yes, that was terrible. That man ought to be made to answer for his unprofessionalism in the JonBenet Ramsey murder investigation.

You do realize most of the leaks were from Steve Thomas .

If you recall, Kane was hired to " indict a ham sandwich" a slam dunk that never happened.

I do believe the blow to the head has been adequately described as such. It should not be confused with "beaten".

 

[Nuisanceposter]

Well, which wounds described in the autopsy are the ones showing that JonBenet was beaten?

 

[BlueCrab]

Well, which wounds described in the autopsy are the ones showing that JonBenet was beaten?

Nuisanceposter,

You are right. According to the autopsy, JonBenet was not beaten. Unless that part of the autopsy was redacted, there is no evidence of a beating.

In that regard, however, I would like to see a crimescene photo of the left side of JonBenet's face. I've never seen one, and there are rumors ...

BlueCrab

 

[BBB167893]

"Does everybody agree that Burke remembers correctly?"

Couldn't say for sure.

"I believe the 'beaten' part refers to the fact that her skull fractured...not that her entire body had been beaten"

That is correct, NP. Sissi, I took a few journalism courses in college. You'd be amazed at how lazy they can be sometimes. The "beaten" part refers to the head wound. That's all.

"You mean the leaks coming right out of Alex Hunter's office? Yes, that was terrible. That man ought to be made to answer for his unprofessionalism in the JonBenet Ramsey murder investigation."

Damn right. I'd put Smit and Thomas (surprised?) in that as well.

"If you recall, Kane was hired to " indict a ham sandwich" a slam dunk that never happened."

I don't know if he was hired to do that, but now we know that the GJ was NOT going by the evidence, but on their sadly naive belief that "no parent could do this." Trust me, Patsy would have been eaten alive on the stand.

 

[sissi]

Oh, but they were going by evidence, evidence we don't have, evidence that the likes of Thomas and others wish they had not had. Of course those people were idiots, IYO, all naive and going on emotion. Who would you have liked to have been seated on that grand jury?

 

[BBB167893]

Oh, but they were going by evidence, evidence we don't have, evidence that the likes of Thomas and others wish they had not had. Of course those people were idiots, IYO, all naive and going on emotion. Who would you have liked to have been seated on that grand jury?

What are you on about? The juror even said it was their "belief" that no parent could do this. If the prosecutor didn't make the case that they could have, that's a problem, too. I didn't say they were idiots. I said that they were naive. Big difference. There are a LOT of people who don't think a parent could do this. Ron Walker had some thoughts on that. In fact, here they are:

From FBI agent Ron Walker, who was at the Ramsey house on 12/26/96 from the A & E program "Anatomy of an Investigation"

FBI Agent Ron Walker: Well, as much as it pains me to say it, yes, I've seen parents who have decapitated their children, I've seen cases where parents have drowned their children in bathtubs, I've seen cases where parents have strangled their children, have placed them in paper bags and smothered them, have strapped them in car seats and driven them into a body of water, any way that you can think of that a person can kill another person, almost all those ways are also ways that parents can kill their children.

Is that good enough?

Who would I have liked to have been seated on the grand jury? Well, I can't think of anyone specifically, but I would have preferred people with a more realistic outlook on life!

 

[Bev]

of a beating, Sissi. The only injuries were to the outside of the neck and the headblow.

 

[aussiesheila]

The car pulls into the garage. Everyone is really tired and is quick to get in to the house.
JBR has already fallen asleep and its JR's job to carry her up to her bed. This is awkward he think to himself as he struggles to get her out of the car without waking her up.
He starts to lift her out, his grip is not that great but he is weary and want to get inside.
A sudden slip of her body and she leaves his grip, her head falling down on the doorframe of the car with a thud. Adrenaline rushing through his body, he quickly
gets another grip lifting her up and holds her tight.
That was close he thinks to himself as the adrenaline fades away.
But what was that sound, that didn't sound right. Almost like a crack...

His hand finds the back of her head and he can't feel nothing wrong, no blod...
He starts to carry her inside, should I start a scene, should I check up on her, no it was nothing,
just imagining...

PR calls from the stairs, what are you doing down there.
Coming, JR answers...
He carries her upstairs into her bed and PR takes over from there.
PR starts to take her pants of.
Wow, she is really zonked she thinks to herself, what a christmasday she have had...

Everybody goes to bed, but JR can't sleep. He can't get that cracking noise out of his head.
He sneaks down to JBR and feels her head. No, this does not feel right, it is too soft...
Panic starts to set in, he checks her pulse but can not really detect any, he is to upset.
He put two fingers into her back and start to press, harder and harder, no reaction...
He put his thumb behind her ear, that soft sensitive spot he thinks, and starts to press, no reaction...

Now panic reigns. What should I do, PR will not forgive me for not telling her earlier, what a fool I am,
No I can't tell her that I fumbled away our daugters life...
I must come up with something, think, think...
What options do I have. I can't leave the house, what if I be missed.
I must have a story ready at 5.30 when the alarm is going of.

Kidnapping might be a solotion. But somehow the body must turn up at our house.
Could be that the kidnappers killed her right away and just tried to get money from us.
Ah, and if something goes wrong, the kidnappers just breaks the operation off and there we sit with our daugter in the basement.
How would they kill her,
a knife, no I can't make myself do that to her.
a gun, out of the question, too loud.
a strangling, of course. How would a pro strangle someone? with a garrote of course.
He carries her down in the basement. Ties a cord around her neck.
Oh I need a handle, he looks around and see the paintbrushes. One of those will due.
He ties the stick to the cord. Yes, that looks pretty convincin he thinks to himself.

He walks upstairs, grabs the flashlight from its drawer and start to write a RN in the dimmed light.
He leaves the RN at the usual place where he and PR leaves notes to eachother.
She will find it in the morning. I will tell her to call 911 and that will sound pretty convincing to the police as it will be genuine.
Also by calling the police, we makes the kidnappers abort the operation.

This theory does not explain
the pineapple. I am willing to accept that this was infact crab...
This theory does not explain the 12 sizes underware. Although I think that JR is the only person who would actually do this.
So I think this fact also can be accounted for but I don't have a convincing explaination of it at the moment.
This theory does not take into account any sex abuse. Lets say this was punitive punishment by PR at earlier occations.

This theory does explain why JR so categorically defends PR even though he can't really know for sure.
This theory does explain why JR does not wan't to be interview until 4 months later.

You should put this in the Members' Theories thread tumble. That way people it won't get lost in the downstream of threads and people can refer back to it easily. It doesn't matter if you don't have all the answers, all theories are works in progress.

I just wish the thread was arranged so I could delete the earlier versions of my theory or at least another thread for discarded theories.
HOPE A MODERATOR READS THIS!!!!!!!!


Your theory - a good effort. I wish more people would go to the trouble of tying everything they believe all together in a complete theory.

 

[sissi]

of a beating, Sissi. The only injuries were to the outside of the neck and the headblow.

and..some pretty huge bruises on her shoulder. If they weren't from being "hit" perhaps they were from the force of someone holding her while attaching the garotte. BTW, Meyers testimony tipped the grand jury in such a way that we can consider that he had MUCH more to say than WE know.

 

[trixie]

I've been saying for years that there has got to be another autopsy report or a revised one that has not been made available to the public. Anybody remember that?

 

[tumble]

aussishiela:
Your theory - a good effort. I wish more people would go to the trouble of tying everything they believe all together in a complete theory.

Thanks for support. Maybe I post it in the theories thread. This was a first try and I didn't realize the importance of the pineapple at the time. Maybe I can explain that somehow within this theory later.

 

[BBB167893]

"some pretty huge bruises on her shoulder. If they weren't from being "hit" perhaps they were from the force of someone holding her while attaching the garotte."

I don't remember reading about any shoulder bruises. Besides, that idea doesn't wash. The garrote was built ON JB's body. Her hair being tied into it confirms that. The person would need BOTH hands to tie it. Now, either they had THREE arms, or, more likely, she was already unconscious or dead.

In fact, Werner Spitz said exactly that:

"Someone went to a great deal of trouble to stage strangulation and sexual assault. All of this happened when she was unconscious."

"BTW, Meyers testimony tipped the grand jury in such a way that we can consider that he had MUCH more to say than WE know."

Actually, that's open to interpretation. The actual quote was:

"the person who presented the testimony having the greatest impact was the coroner when he described the injuries that were inflicted upon JonBenet, and I think she specifically mentioned the head injury. The GJ said she (they) just couldn't believe that parents could inflict such injuries on their child."

The "she" refers to the grand juror. IOWs, one can interpret that to mean that the coroner stated his findings just as in the autopsy report and they just ASSUMED that "parents could inflict such injuries on their child." The grand juror even said in her interview on TV that she went into the grand jury assuming that no parent could do this. That would seem to confirm what I said: imo, they were naive.

I reiterate:

FBI Agent Ron Walker: Well, as much as it pains me to say it, yes, I've seen parents who have decapitated their children, I've seen cases where parents have drowned their children in bathtubs, I've seen cases where parents have strangled their children, have placed them in paper bags and smothered them, have strapped them in car seats and driven them into a body of water, any way that you can think of that a person can kill another person, almost all those ways are also ways that parents can kill their children.

 

[sissi]

Okay, what I saw was what appeared to be an area, a large area made up of multiple bruises. On her small body it would appear about the size of a man's hand.As it's described in the autopsy...upon re-reading, it could very well represent finger pressure from a hand forcing her down. This could have been pressure applied while attaching the garrotte. Now Super Dave, since you have concluded this isn't a three handed perp, are you suggesting there were at least two involved in garrotting this child? These marks are not described as two, a few, they are described as several.

Several linear aggregates of petechial hemorrhages are present in the anterior left shoulder just above deltopectoral groove. These measure up to one inch in length by one-sixteenth to one-eight of an inch in width.

 

[BBB167893]

Okay, what I saw was what appeared to be an area, a large area made up of multiple bruises. On her small body it would appear about the size of a man's hand.As it's described in the autopsy...upon re-reading, it could very well represent finger pressure from a hand forcing her down. This could have been pressure applied while attaching the garrotte. Now Super Dave, since you have concluded this isn't a three handed perp, are you suggesting there were at least two involved in garrotting this child? These marks are not described as two, a few, they are described as several.

Several linear aggregates of petechial hemorrhages are present in the anterior left shoulder just above deltopectoral groove. These measure up to one inch in length by one-sixteenth to one-eight of an inch in width.

Okay, so they weren't "bruises" to speak of. In that case, they could have been left by the strangulation itself. I just read that part. Seems a little too straight to be a hand? Incidentally, severale means more than one. It could be few, it could be many. It doesn't say for sure. Plus, I think a hand holding her down would leave more of a mark. The report says "very superficial abrasion." That suggests a scrape, not bruising.

Definitely not a three-armed person, correct.

Two? Hmm. Well, maybe, but I doubt you'd like me to elaborate on that!

Was agent Walker's statement helpful to anyone? I hope so! I spent a good deal of time finding that! I'd hate to think I wasted it!

 

[sissi]

Okay, so they weren't "bruises" to speak of. In that case, they could have been left by the strangulation itself. I just read that part. Seems a little too straight to be a hand? Incidentally, severale means more than one. It could be few, it could be many. It doesn't say for sure. Plus, I think a hand holding her down would leave more of a mark. The report says "very superficial abrasion." That suggests a scrape, not bruising.

Definitely not a three-armed person, correct.

Two? Hmm. Well, maybe, but I doubt you'd like me to elaborate on that!

Was agent Walker's statement helpful to anyone? I hope so! I spent a good deal of time finding that! I'd hate to think I wasted it!

NO they were bruises. What would you like to suggest, that Patsy and John were now garrotting their child to death. It certainly fails to pass the test for other RDI theories.

 

[tumble]

could the shoulder bruise be from a knee?
police often use knees to hold down offenders.

 

[BBB167893]

NO they were bruises. What would you like to suggest, that Patsy and John were now garrotting their child to death. It certainly fails to pass the test for other RDI theories.

No, I would not like to suggest that, because, imo, there was one person.

But, just for the tally books, there is enough to suggest to me that they both were involved, and, in the case of two people, I find that idea much easier to buy than the idea that there were two intruders. Heck, I've told you what I think of the "one intruder" idea!

Guess no one thought much of Agent Walker's take, eh?