Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #175

[Deleted member 306806]

I love the footnote 162 that Ford didn't make a 1965 Comet but Mercury did. This is what I refer to when I say the Defense states something as fact in the Memo then footnotes that it really isn't actually correct. I'll wait for BB to explain in her own words what she saw.
View attachment 482522
classiccars.com

MOO

Mercury-make cars and trucks were also referred to as “Ford Mercury”. Also see “Lincoln-Mercury”. The Ford version of the Comet was the Maverick.

 

[sunshineray]

What was in the disclosure then? Any chance he read / learned something in it that only the killer would have known, and was then able to recite whatever he'd learned to his mother or wife? That can happen - that police inadvertently provide information to a suspect that is later used as part of a confession, or admission of guilt, or ends up appearing "incriminating".

We won't know anything specifically offical (except that he made them, spoken by prosecutor in court and on the record) about RA's multiple confessions until trial...as it should be, specifics for the jury.. JMO

 

[somequestions]

Can you link the statement that a Comet was the vehicle seen?

I am not doubting it was said, many others have seen this statement. I just would really like to read the statement in it's entirety.


Thank you!

It is in the Franks Memorandum. That Franks memorandum is very long, 136 pages, so I do not know exactly what page.

A summary of the information is that BB, the same witness who supposedly saw bridge guy on platform 1 on the Monon High Bridge left from the Mears entrance at 2:14 pm according to the Hoosier Harvest Store video. She passed the old CPS building where she claims at 2:15pm, there was a car that, in her opinion, resembled a 1965 Mercury Comet she remembered from her past. When asked the color, she said the car was NOT black in color. The defense claims this proves that Richard Allen's black Ford Focus was already gone from the old CPS building at 2:15pm because of how incredibly different a black Ford Focus looks compared to a 1965 Mercury Comet(that was also not black in color according to the witness). And this is why eyewitness testimony can sometimes be way off.

There is however, the Hoosier Harveststore surveillance cameras, which we do not know about in terms of evidence. According to the PCA, investigators have a car that resembles Richard Allen's black Ford Focus passing the Hoosier Harveststore surveillance camera at 1:27pm heading towards the old CPS building.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Below is a quote from the link below. What could they have recorded all that time that would have no audio?

"Due to DVR program error discovered on 9-20-2017 all recordings up to February 20th.
2017, were recorded over. There is no detectible audio found on this drive."

2024 2/7 Def Motion to Dismiss-Destroyed Exculpatorymotion_to_dismiss_exculp.pdf

drive.google.com

 

[Betty P]

One of his current lawyers IS certified as a DP Attorney.

I checked a few weeks ago and didn't find him on the state's list. Which one is alleged to be DP certified? TIA

 

[photographer4]

I'm not sure when they turned RL's property back to him; I'm guessing it was a few days later. I remember him saying they had his property all lit up.

B Mac said they thought they were just sticks originally. They didn't take the tree bark, either.

There almost has to be a whole series of photos taken at the scene that day before anything was disturbed.
I assume the photos were taken by one photographer with one camera.
What triggered LE to come back for the sticks several weeks later is the question.

That is an excellent response, and I thank you for it!! I hadn't even begun to consider what triggered them to go back for those suddenly! I do think they released it days after the kids were found because we had a video of RL showing a reporter the general area where the police tape was up - but how soon did that happen after the murders?

 

[Salah11]

When I was going over the Franks motion one of their arguments is one witness claimed they saw a person in a Tan jacket not Blue so it couldn’t possible be RA.

But looking at the Bridge guy it looks like he has a Tan Jumper on underneath so who’s to say he hadn’t at that stage opened his coat up at that stage?

 

[photographer4]

So nobody else parked there that day?

Has it been ruled out as involved as I fail to believe there was only two cars seen that entire day?!

It’s a process of elimination and obviously RA was spotted bloody and muddy going back to where he parked his car.

Mooo

someone was spotted muddy going towards the direction where a parked car had been.

It is alleged by the prosecution that person was RA. It isn't a proven fact, yet. I'm wondering if the car was connected to the killer - if RA was muddy and bloody and returned to his car immediately post murder, then wouldn't there also be some sort of evidence in his car? The Defense has claimed no DNA ties him to the kids - so did he just walk home and shower post murder and then walk back to collect his car, free of evidence on his person / clothes?

What did he do next? When did someone next see RA post murder? Who saw him and what was he doing? Was he relaxed, smoking a pipe watching tv? Or did he go out and come home later than usual that evening? I'd really like to know so many more things before I am willing to say for sure I believe RA is who was muddy and bloody spotted by a witness.

 

[Ravenmoon]

Apologies. It was other specific exculpatory interviews allegedly recorded over/lost per the new motions, not RA’s confessions.

Sources:

'Recorded over' | Richard Allen's attorneys claim key evidence destroyed in Delphi murders case

The defense claims that a week's worth of police interview recordings, from right after the 2017 killings, were destroyed.

www.wthr.com

MOTION TO DISMISS FOR DESTROYING EXCULPATORY EVIDENCE

2024 2/7 Def Motion to Dismiss-Destroyed Exculpatorymotion_to_dismiss_exculp.pdf

drive.google.com

MEMORANDUM OF LAW IN SUPPORT OF DISMISSAL

2024 2/7 DefMemoSupportDismissal.pdf

drive.google.com

Exculpatory Evidence:

Exculpatory evidence, on the other hand, supports a defendant's innocence. It can include proof of an alibi, an eyewitness statement, video footage, audio recordings or any other physical evidence that shows doubt that the person in question committed the crime.


It bothers me quite a bit that there is the insinuation that this type of evidence has been destroyed.

Does it make ANY SENSE that police would willingly destroy evidence that could have ended the search for the killer within weeks of the murders? Why would LE protect the likes of people like PW or EF just to wait 6 years to accuse RA?

EXCULPATORY Evidence implies that there was definite proof that one of these individuals was the responsible party. Why is it so difficult to accept that all were investigated and ruled out, therefore nothing could be deemed exculpatory??


JMO

EBM to add:

Is it exculpatory if there is definitive proof that NONE of these people were at or even near the crime scene?

 

[steeltowngirl]

Can you link the statement that a Comet was the vehicle seen?

I am not doubting it was said, many others have seen this statement. I just would really like to read the statement in it's entirety.


Thank you!

At pg 113

DELPHI: Memorandum in Support of Motion PDF | PDF | Prosecutor | Police

DELPHI: Memorandum in Support of Motion.pdf

www.scribd.com

 

[Tealgrove]

With respect to another car parked in the area that fateful day, if it’s possible this many years on, I would suggest you visit the scanner thread for the day the girls were reported missing.

Please remember that information in the scanner thread cannot be brought to the main thread.

 

[photographer4]

Great find! thanks for posting it.
Was this one included in any of the documents?

I'd love to know what car HE described to LE and when he did so? I'd also like to know if he provided them his work record because he said it was there 8:45 am and still there at 2:15pm as he was leaving. I'd also like to know, when did LE tell him they didn't even know what colour the car was that was parked at CPS? Has the D interviewed this person???

 

[Betty P]

At pg 113

DELPHI: Memorandum in Support of Motion PDF | PDF | Prosecutor | Police

DELPHI: Memorandum in Support of Motion.pdf

www.scribd.com

All we're seeing here is the defense's "interpretation" of the evidence. Like this "In the state's XYZ document it says the witness said ......, but that was wrong". Since we can't see the state's documents, we don't know if the defense is telling the truth or "bending it" or leaving out other relevant information.

That's why states have a trial, before a judge, with rules the attorneys on both sides must follow when presenting evidence. Just the fact these defense attorneys are cheating in such an egregious manner makes me skeptical of anything they say. JMO

 

[somequestions]

I think the only place I've seen it was in the FM, from the attached exhibits.

View attachment 482420

What is remarkable to me is that at the time Richard Allen is being interviewed in October 2022, he would have no way of knowing that Dulin, the conservation officer had lost the tape recording of the interview concerning when Richard Allen arrived and left the Monon High Bridge area. The fact that Richard Allen might have changed his story in October 2022 is also remarkable in that Richard Allen must have thought his previous tip report narrative would not be found, even if it was only written.

The testimony of the conservation officer, Dulin, is going to be damaging for the defense, especially combined with the Hoosier Harveststore surveillance video 1:27pm sighting of a car resembling a black Ford Focus heading towards the old CPS building. But since Dulin did not even record Richard Allen's last name correctly, people might be skeptical about what Dulin wrote about the timeline. It is strange how in this case Richard Allen provides so much of the evidence against him.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

What was in the disclosure then? Any chance he read / learned something in it that only the killer would have known, and was then able to recite whatever he'd learned to his mother or wife? That can happen - that police inadvertently provide information to a suspect that is later used as part of a confession, or admission of guilt, or ends up appearing "incriminating".

Per the defense. Discovery documents dropped off to Westville for RA to review on March 24th, 2023 had NOT been given to RA prior to his multiple confessions on April 3rd, 2023.

 

[Salah11]

someone was spotted muddy going towards the direction where a parked car had been.

It is alleged by the prosecution that person was RA. It isn't a proven fact, yet. I'm wondering if the car was connected to the killer - if RA was muddy and bloody and returned to his car immediately post murder, then wouldn't there also be some sort of evidence in his car? The Defense has claimed no DNA ties him to the kids - so did he just walk home and shower post murder and then walk back to collect his car, free of evidence on his person / clothes?

What did did someone next see RA post murder? Who saw him and what was he doing? Was he relaxed, smoking a pipe watching tv? Or did he go out and come home later than usual that evening? I'd really like to know so many more things before I am willing to say for sure I believe RA is who was muddy and bloody spotted by a witness.

To play devils advocate here the car was searched 5 years 8 months later after the fact so no doubt that car had been washed and cleaned a millions time by that stage. Likely new carpets put in from wear and tear and so on.

It would be a lot more suspicious not finding something if it had been one or two months after the fact not nearly 6 years later.

MOO

 

[photographer4]

Yes, I think logic would dictate that if an expert was called to investigate a cult angle including the CS runes and etc. they would have had to have shared the photos and documents.

jmo

Would the LE have thought to have the consultant sign a non-disclosure agreement? If not, what (aside professionalism) would have precluded them from providing information to outside persons? B McD seemed to be familiar with and know all about it, so I wonder, what did she know, when did she know it and what was her source? I am NOT accusing anyone - I am just asking, would LE have had any outside consultants sign an NDA?

 

[Betty P]

Would the LE have thought to have the consultant sign a non-disclosure agreement? If not, what (aside professionalism) would have precluded them from providing information to outside persons? B McD seemed to be familiar with and know all about it, so I wonder, what did she know, when did she know it and what was her source? I am NOT accusing anyone - I am just asking, would LE have had any outside consultants sign an NDA?

We can't say what they did or will do in the future. The trial hasn't begun yet. That's when we'll learn what LE has done. Right now, its just gossip and guessing. JMO

There's also a legal process that LE has to follow in order to hire experts, have them examine evidence, etc. No, they're not allowed to have experts sign non-disclosure agreements. They're actually required to testify in court and explain their work and how they reached their conclusions. They're familiar with the process, the law, etc.


ETA:

For anyone wondering about which defense attorneys in Indiana are eligible to handle Death Penalty cases, here's a link to the Indiana Death Penalty Roster. Andrew Baldwin and Brad Rozzi are not on this list.

https://ingov.sharepoint.com/sites/PDComPortal/Lists/2022%20Death%20Penalty%20List/Website%20View.aspx?env=WebViewList

 

[photographer4]

To play devils advocate here the car was searched 5 years 8 months later after the fact so no doubt that car had been washed and cleaned a millions time by that stage. Likely new carpets put in from wear and tear and so on.

It would be a lot more suspicious not finding something if it had been one or two months after the fact not nearly 6 years later.

MOO

I hear you. I do. But I think perhaps generally we underestimate how long DNA evidence can survive various crime scenes - despite washing, and vacuuming etc. An interesting link that may help:

Rolling Evidence: Forensic Files reveals how cars end up at crime scenes - Hagerty Media

All it takes is a tiny bit of DNA from either kid anywhere inside that vehicle and he's toast. There is no way a guy got into a car muddy and bloody and got home directly from the scene without any transfer of evidence from the scene to his car (mud, folliage bits etc). I'd believe he walked home, cleaned up and then went back for a car later - but even that would make me wonder how the heck he got from the scene to home without being seen as muddy and bloody by anyone else?

So, if RA did it, AND he drove himself home immediately after the murders? I'd believe DNA could have been found in the vehicle he drove. BUT - so far, we've heard NO dna links him to the crime??

 

[photographer4]

We can't say what they did or will do in the future. The trial hasn't begun yet. That's when we'll learn what LE has done. Right now, its just gossip and guessing. JMO

There's also a legal process that LE has to follow in order to hire experts, have them examine evidence, etc. No, they're not allowed to have experts sign non-disclosure agreements. They're actually required to testify in court and explain their work and how they reached their conclusions. They're familiar with the process, the law, etc.

Couldn't an NDA preclude them from discussing with non parties to the proceedings? EG: silence until trial unless meeting the Defense? I'm genuinely asking - I'm not a lawyer.