About the knife...

[kyleb]

Is this item concave, or convex?

Well that would obviously depend on what the item you're alluding to is. But again, can you not name anything which is not a watch face, but very similar to one, be it convex, concave, or otherwise?

Paid has since revised his original belief of the "X" as the center of a circular object.

Yeah, and he's gone off track in doing so, as even intelligent people can do.

 

[Compassionate Reader]

Yeah, and he's gone off track in doing so, as even intelligent people can do.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one! I think he's right on in his newer assessment, based on newer information. If one only looks at all the original information on the case and the wmpd's (obviously flawed) assessment of it, one can go astray for sure!

 

[kyleb]

Well you've gone astray regarding your inference of what I'm looking at, as the wounds in question were originally mistaken to be "a belt buckle type injury" by Peretti. As for Paid's more recent claims regarding the wounds, do you recall our previous discussion on that?

 

[Compassionate Reader]

Well you've gone astray regarding your inference of what I'm looking at, as the wounds in question were originally mistaken to be "a belt buckle type injury" by Peretti. As for Paid's more recent claims regarding the wounds, do you recall our previous discussion on that?

It really doesn't matter what the wmpd (or Peretti) originally thought the wound was. What matters is what it is. (Hint: It's not a belt buckle or a compass or a watch or anything circular, like the butt of a survival knife.)

 

[reedus23]

It really doesn't matter what the wmpd (or Peretti) originally thought the wound was. What matters is what it is. (Hint: It's not a belt buckle or a compass or a watch or anything circular, like the butt of a survival knife.)

Hopefully some day we will know what it is. Until then, I'll patiently sit back and wait.

 

[primitivefuture]

It really doesn't matter what the wmpd (or Peretti) originally thought the wound was. What matters is what it is. (Hint: It's not a belt buckle or a compass or a watch or anything circular, like the butt of a survival knife.)

I don't see it being a match to those items either. It seems the wound pattern would be more uniform had it been caused by the butt of the knife. Do you agree?


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[Ausgirl]

Yeah, I'm responding to the coyness with which you dodged my question in kind. That said, if you you can bring yourself to give a straight answer to my question, then I'll be happy to answer yours.

You drive a hard bargain, Mr Kyle. But riddle me this: what has four points and isn't a fork?

I'm so not saying it out loud now.

 

[primitivefuture]

What brand is the "lake knife"? I can't recall and it isn't listed on the evidence sheet. Thanks in advance.


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[kyleb]

You drive a hard bargain, Mr Kyle. But riddle me this: what has four points and isn't a fork?

I'm so not saying it out loud now.

I've not heard that riddle before, but my best guess is that you're inferring that I'm a square. Is that the ticket?

 

[kyleb]

What brand is the "lake knife"? I can't recall and it isn't listed on the evidence sheet. Thanks in advance.

It's not brand name product, but it does have a name which can be seen here, and here is testimony from a guy who sold those knives.

 

[tnhybrid]

That wound looks like it could be inflicted by a circular bit from a hammer drill to me. (The center drill bit can be adjusted up or down in some of these models, IIRC.)

 

[kyleb]

There's no pattern of gouges and spaces on the semicircular wounds to make them consistent with teeth on hole saws, and center bits have points too while the severity of the x abrasion is fairly consistent throughout.

 

[Compassionate Reader]

There's no pattern of gouges and spaces on the semicircular wounds to make them consistent with teeth on hole saws, and center bits have points too while the severity of the x abrasion is fairly consistent throughout.

BBM

I thought that nons believed the gouges and spaces were caused by the serrated knife. Isn't this one of the wounds that was compared to the knife overlay in an attempt to prove that the Lake knife caused this wound?

 

[kyleb]

There's no pattern of gouges and spaces on the semicircular wounds.

 

[primitivefuture]

There's no pattern of gouges and spaces on the semicircular wounds.

But it looks like there is an irregular pattern. If the semicircular wounds were caused by the butt of the lake knife, I'd think the wound would be more uniform in shape.


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[kyleb]

They are uniform in shape, which is why Paid drew a circle over the one on Stevie Branch's forehead and suggested something much like a watch face. It's also why back in 1998, when the claims of human bite marks were being made to fuel the witch hunt against Mark Byers, Dr. Harry Mincer explained:

10 A. Well, when I was looking at -- at that body in particular
11 as I stated, there were many circular marks that were present
12 all over the neck, chin, cheek, above the eye, et cetera. And
13 they all seemed to me to have been made by a -- a circular
14 object that -- a hollow pipe or something that would have been
15 making such a -- such a mark on the face.

Granted, we don't have autopsy photos publicly available for much of what Miner talked about, but here I've marked the semicircular wounds on this one demonstrate their uniform hollow pipe like shape:

And check the measurements for yourself. While that consistency was apparently overlooked until 2002, it's an irrefutable matter of measurements which corroborates the consistency between the saw edge of the knife and other wounds identified at trial.

 

[primitivefuture]

They are uniform in shape, which is why Paid drew a circle over the one on Stevie Branch's forehead and suggested something much like a watch face. It's also why back in 1998, when the claims of human bite marks were being made to fuel the witch hunt against Mark Byers, Dr. Harry Mincer explained:



Granted, we don't have autopsy photos publicly for much of what Miner talked about, but here I've marked the semicircular wounds on this one demonstrate their uniform hollow pipe like shape:

And check the measurements for yourself. While that consistency was apparently overlooked until 2002, it's an irrefutable matter of measurements which corroborates the consistency between the saw edge of the knife and other wounds identified at trial.

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Edited to add: somehow, my entire reply was erased and I'm on the brink of doing a Yosemite Sam bit. Racka Fracka #%%^#%*>}?!*%#

 

[Ausgirl]

kyle, going on the pictures you've linked here:

http://i.imgur.com/wr90CMI.jpg

(and I -swear- there's a post out there somewhere with this brand knife, with a compass in..)

as well as : http://callahan.8k.com/images/lakeknife/knife8.jpg

You can see the place where the compass ought to go.

Here's a similar knife.. http://thewm3revelations.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/survivalknife.jpg

But what I wasn't seeing was that the compass is probably removable as it is here: http://www.days4safety.com/resources/w5218 Survival knife.jpg

.. so you can store matches and other survival thingies in the handle.

I still contend that with the compass in place, a blow from the butt of the knife could not cause BOTH the x-shaped laceration AND the circular mark which measures closely with the empty 'pipe' the hilt becomes once the compass is gone.

But wow, it didn't occur to me that the compass simply unscrewed like that. Obviously, I am no survivalist.


though I do make a mean kangaroo stew

 

[Ausgirl]

Here's one I think is perhaps closer in style to the lake knife:

http://www.orionfoundation.org/survival_knife.htm

You can see these compasses have various degrees of convexness, but my point remains the same, re the x mark.

I am VERY interested in how --precisely- those circular marks match the lake knife -- 1mm out even is NOT exact. There's a lot of these knives out there.. lots of different brands.

 

[kyleb]

But what I wasn't seeing was that the compass is probably removable as it is here: http://www.days4safety.com/resources/w5218 Survival knife.jpg

The compass is inside the cap on that one, so the hilt can be used as a hammer without messing up the compass. And yes, there's lots of such survival knifes with similar designs, but I doubt you found a picture of a Special Forces Survival II with the compass in it, as I've searched extensively on multiple occasions and the only ones I've found are sans compass, they apparently weren't secured in there very well. Absent any such photo the matter of whether or not the compass was shaped in such a way to leave the mark is conjecture, but my conjecture is based on the improbability of the mark winding up right at the center point of the semicircle by sheer happenstance, while yours is obviously based on a desire to exclude the knife along with any other evidence which implicates the three who were convicted of and eventually plead guilty to the murders.