AB's involvement?

[tlcya]

If she used the company vehicle that means AB would have been home for it to be there. The twin mattresses I had were the kinds with springs. I thought they used a piece of equipment to pull it out of the landfill, but maybe they weren't really showing the one they took into evidence.

Or maybe having watched just enough CSI to know better than to touch it, the employees used the equipment instead? Or perhaps were cautioned when LE gave up the search there of what to do when if they found a matress fitting that general description?

 

[vjlaw]

Or maybe having watched just enough CSI to know better than to touch it, the employees used the equipment instead? Or perhaps were cautioned when LE gave up the search there of what to do when if they found a matress fitting that general description?

Could very well be. I really don't think it would be very heavy either but it would not be too bendable to get in a regular car. Just thinking someone wouldn't tuck it under their arm and walk to a dumpster without being noticed. Especially if they got rid of it because they knew there was evidence on it. If they dismembered Zahra why not cut up the mattress and throw it in trash bags rather than carrying something so obvious. I am just wondering what was on the mattress that they would have known would be found by LE but not seen by the naked eye if someone looked into the dumpster and saw a mattress. If there had been lots of blood anyone could have seen that on the mattress. Not sure if it was the dumpster for the donut(?) shop, but if it was, employees could have easily looked in there and noticed the mattress.

 

[tlcya]

Could very well be. I really don't think it would be very heavy either but it would not be too bendable to get in a regular car. Just thinking someone wouldn't tuck it under their arm and walk to a dumpster without being noticed. Especially if they got rid of it because they knew there was evidence on it. If they dismembered Zahra why not cut up the mattress and throw it in trash bags rather than carrying something so obvious. I am just wondering what was on the mattress that they would have known would be found by LE but not seen by the naked eye if someone looked into the dumpster and saw a mattress. If there had been lots of blood anyone could have seen that on the mattress. Not sure if it was the dumpster for the donut(?) shop, but if it was, employees could have easily looked in there and noticed the mattress.

I agree a single person would not just hoist it over their shoulder. They would have to drag it, the size and shape would make it unmanagable even if the weight did not. But I have dragged full mattresses down a flight of stairs, down a long drive, to the pile we were amassing for the dump.

that, would mean to me vomit maybe, or some fluids not detectable by the naked eye. Or perhaps nothing that would stand out as anything other than gross at the time to anyone who saw it (before any one has heard of Zahra or knows she's missing) but was so objectionable it needed to leave the house. I hate to speculate that far because it is so disturbing to me but perhaps Z soiled the bed either in fear during life or in the normal occassional voiding that can come after death?

I need to get off here and go to bed. This turn of thought is too much for this late.

 

[vjlaw]

I agree a single person would not just hoist it over their shoulder. They would have to drag it, the size and shape would make it unmanagable even if the weight did not. But I have dragged full mattresses down a flight of stairs, down a long drive, to the pile we were amassing for the dump.

that, would mean to me vomit maybe, or some fluids not detectable by the naked eye. Or perhaps nothing that would stand out as anything other than gross at the time to anyone who saw it (before any one has heard of Zahra or knows she's missing) but was so objectionable it needed to leave the house. I hate to speculate that far because it is so disturbing to me but perhaps Z soiled the bed either in fear during life or in the normal occassional voiding that can come after death?

I need to get off here and go to bed. This turn of thought is too much for this late.

Yes, I know what you mean. I need to go to bed too. Good nite.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

In the 911 call AB said he was woke up by his dogs barking and found the fire. (Not an exact quote)

This comment of his has always bugged me. And strangely enough, it's something I've been pondering quite a bit this morning in relation to other thoughts.

He says: " We woke up. My dog woke me up."

Why the switch from "we" to "me" ? Is he saying the dog woke BOTH him and EB up? Is he saying the dog woke HIM up and he then woke HER up?

That's a mighty interesting comment to consider when asking yourself who it was that might have set the fire.

JMO

ETA: We know that EB wrote the ransom note, she's already admitted that. But do we know WHEN she wrote it?

 

[raisincharlie]

In the 911 call AB said he was woke up by his dogs barking and found the fire. (Not an exact quote)

Interesting comment by AB. I've always wondered why the dogs didn't wake him up when whoever was pouring gas on the mulch pile and in the cars rather than waiting for the fire to be actively in progress myself. Only conclusion I can reach is the dogs knew who was pouring gas but they didn't like fire.

Time the ransom note was written - 0230.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Interesting comment by AB. I've always wondered why the dogs didn't wake him up when whoever was pouring gas on the mulch pile and in the cars rather than waiting for the fire to be actively in progress myself. Only conclusion I can reach is the dogs knew who was pouring gas but they didn't like fire.

Or he's just flat out lying that the dogs woke him up. I don't think the dogs barked at all. I don't think AB ever went to sleep.

The question is...did EB?

 

[raisincharlie]

Or he's just flat out lying that the dogs woke him up.

Could be.

 

[vjlaw]

If AB poured the gas and touched the ransom note, I hope they find his fingerprint on the note.

 

[Clue Hopper]

What if someone didn't think in advance about the dogs barking? Having the fire go unnoticed until it became uncontrollable? Remnants or ashes of burned ransom found in car etc. Just thinking in a different direction for today.

 

[tlcya]

This comment of his has always bugged me. And strangely enough, it's something I've been pondering quite a bit this morning in relation to other thoughts.

He says: " We woke up. My dog woke me up."

Why the switch from "we" to "me" ? Is he saying the dog woke BOTH him and EB up? Is he saying the dog woke HIM up and he then woke HER up?

That's a mighty interesting comment to consider when asking yourself who it was that might have set the fire.

JMO

ETA: We know that EB wrote the ransom note, she's already admitted that. But do we know WHEN she wrote it?

Or the dogs didn't bark because as posted by another, they recongized the person in the backyard, but then set to barking once the fire was going as they were not okay with that.

I think the switch from we to me because it occurred to him after saying we that E had not been in the bed with him and therefore changed it to me. She may well have already been out of bed so he realized we was not accurate.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Or the dogs didn't bark because as posted by another, they recongized the person in the backyard, but then set to barking once the fire was going as they were not okay with that.

I think the switch from we to me because it occurred to him after saying we that E had not been in the bed with him and therefore changed it to me. She may well have already been out of bed so he realized we was not accurate.

I can't agree with you, here, TL. He switches from "we" in too many other areas, in addition to this one. For example: " WE saw her last night at around 2:30 am". That later becomes not "WE saw her", but "her MOTHER saw her". I think he has a script going in his head, but can't stick to it. He can't keep the story straight.

 

[Allusonz]

One other point to ponder is that the donut employee stated that he saw an individual with a lighter on the back porch. He does not state that he saw 2 individuals on the back porch with lighters

 

[tlcya]

One other point to ponder is that the donut employee stated that he saw an individual with a lighter on the back porch. He does not state that he saw 2 individuals on the back porch with lighters

agreed and this was also a topic of specualtion on the ransom note thread. Either there was only one person in the backyard, or the donut store employee could only see the person on the proch because of the lighter flicking on and off and another person was present on the yard in an area not visible from the employees vantage point.

 

[Scamperoo]

AB was in the house while his daughter was being systematically dismembered and disposed of and knew nothing? I don't buy that!
There are many valid reasons why he would have known but the one I think of continuously is the smell..Ugh yes I know. Humans for all of their normally lousy sense of smell have an extremely heightened sense for blood. Or more to the point the reaction between blood and the skin which gives a characteristic metallic smell and can be detected at 5 parts per trillion by humans, so if he couldn't see anything he could smell it if he were at anytime in the house. Thats apart from the smell of human decomposition which by itself lingers and is very distinct. He knew JMO

 

[tlcya]

I don't know where AB was. because -

I don't know when AB last set eyes on his living child (100%, genuinely, tuesday, thursday, 2am, etc.)

I don't know when (that night? Days prior? A week before?) the dismemberment happened.

I don't know where in the home the dismemberment happened. (my guess would be bathtub, only logical)

I don't know how much cleanup was necessary in Z's room as I don't know cause of death. The drywall removal suggest evidence but I do not know what it is. I do not know if painting was done in Z's room to cover up evidence on said drywall although it has certainly been SPECULATED about by me and others. If painting was done, IMO that could easily have been done by a lone person during the day while another was out of the house. (OT but did ya'll see that carppy paint job in Z's room? )

Therein lies a lot of my problem in being able to figure out who knew what when.

 

[Clue Hopper]

Is there a thread for just the lies? I'm trying to recall all of them at once and well.....it's hard to do. I keep forgetting some.

 

[tlcya]

here ya go hopper

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=119736"]Elisa Baker & Adam Baker lies **LIST ONLY** - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

It is a thread for justs listing the lies/inconsistencies, not really discussion

hth

 

[Jacie Estes]

I think of the fathers of missing/murdered children; Mark Klaas, John Walsh, Ed Smart and Chuck Cox. Each one of them was active and proactive after their children went missing. They all searched for their children. Klaas and Walsh started foundations and have been very visible as advocates. Both Smart and Cox are visible and have started foundations for awareness; Chuck Cox is still in limbo, not knowing where his daughter Susan is, still he speaks and searches.

AB has done nothing remotely compared to the efforts of the aforementioned. He just follows his Mum around. IMHO that speaks volumes. Where is his outrage, where is his desire to bring truth forward? He is just IMHO doing a passable CYA job. Poor Zahra, she looked up to him. She called him Daddy; he failed her. IMHO

 

[Mrs G Norris]

^ Could not agree more Jacie!