Actress claims President George H.W Bush sexually assaulted her

[Spellbound]

People have been standing by letting men get away with this behavior since the beginning of time. There is always a justification, a jump to be on the man's side, and fingers pointing at the victim. Always. And then they ask "Why didn't she come forward sooner?" Well, look around. That's why.

And I thought the majority of members here were advocates for victims of this kind of behaviour. Wrong.

Right!?! This is a victim friendly website last I checked.

Since I seem to be the only one giving GW any benefit of the doubt, I will speak for myself here. I am NOT condoning his possibly inappropriate actions, I just have big doubts he intended it that way.

having been a victim of sexually inappropriate contact, I have great empathy for a victim. Unfortunately, I also have an understanding of inappropriate behavior by mentally deficient individuals, and I do believe there is something medically going on with senior Bush the last few years. This is probably the very first time I have ever given a possible predator a doubtful benefit on what his intention may have been.

All JMO

 

[bluesneakers]

If his dementia is so bad he's groping young women and making inappropriate comments someone should step in and help him and his victim(s).

 

[Spellbound]

If his dementia is so bad he's groping young women and making inappropriate comments someone should step in and help him and his victim(s).

Yes, they definitely should!

 

[Sleepyface]

As per his office he tells a routine joke (that his favourite magician is ‘David-cop-a-feel&#8217 sometimes followed by good natured patting.

MOO He 100% percent knows what he is doing, and he has done it a lot. http://uk.businessinsider.com/president-george-hw-bush-sexual-assault-actress-2017-10?r=US&IR=T

 

[kaen]

If the former president's office knows that he has a regular joke, I agree he knows what he is doing. Rather than taking opinions, I am just looking at the statements made. I doubt that people are so awestruck with him that he needs to put them "at ease" at this point. The idea that the office staff knew and did not counsel him is appalling. This is clearly not dementia or a medical issue. They are admitting this is a joke and action he has done before and it is well-known within the office.



"Following Lind's allegation, the office of former President George H.W. Bush released a statement Wednesday saying Bush had, on occasion, "patted women's rears in what he intended to be a good-natured manner."

"To try to put people at ease, the president routinely tells the same joke — and on occasion, he has patted women's rears in what he intended to be a good-natured manner," the statement read.

"Some have seen it as innocent; others clearly view it as inappropriate," the statement continued." http://uk.businessinsider.com/president-george-hw-bush-sexual-assault-actress-2017-10?r=US&IR=T


The article has another woman's account with a "quote" that Barbara Bush said he was going to get himself put in jail. If the former president was a low functioning 30 year old male or a man who had been drinking to the point of inebriation, many would be calling this an assault and advocating he be arrested for the behavior. Many would argue that there should be culpability for that behavior b/c is not explained/excused by their impairments. Also, if he were in a nursing home and had done these behaviors someone would have spoken with him as the actions would have been deemed an assault and cause the facility to be a risk of losing its license. The former president has his wife by his side, secret service agents, and a cadre of staff who have witnessed his actions. These people who love and work for him owe it to him to school him on how his behavior needs to change.

These women are victims. They are not flaunting their bodies (although they don't deserve it even if they did). They are not having a drink or dinner with him (although they don't deserve it even if they did). You can write anything down about these women you want but they have not done anything to deserve what happened to them. I don't understand how people could be making excuses for his behavior, either in his private life or on this site.

The days of accepting the behavior of a "dirty, old man" should have been over a long, long time ago.

 

[kaen]

Since I seem to be the only one giving GW any benefit of the doubt, I will speak for myself here. I am NOT condoning his possibly inappropriate actions, I just have big doubts he intended it that way.

having been a victim of sexually inappropriate contact, I have great empathy for a victim. Unfortunately, I also have an understanding of inappropriate behavior by mentally deficient individuals, and I do believe there is something medically going on with senior Bush the last few years. This is probably the very first time I have ever given a possible predator a doubtful benefit on what his intention may have been.

All JMO

Even if he has some cognitive impairments as you theorize, the people around him who I assume do not have cognitive impairments are then responsible to keep others safe and take care of the situation. Those in his sphere are not stating he is incompetent but rather he has made the same joke on more than a few occasions. Those around him should not place people next to him for a photo op. Those around him should apologize and assure victims that they won't let this happen again. This is not a man who is mobile and out of a caretaker's sight. These instances have been avoidable since the first staffer, secret service agent, family member, or personal assistant heard it being made. One could argue that those around him could be arrested for not handling a situation where a man they are responsible for is assaulting others. We say that with cases here where children have done horrible things that their parents should be held to account. This is no different.

From gunslinging granny's articles above (http://dailycaring.com/9-ways-to-handle-alzheimers-and-sexually-inappropriate-behavior/),
1. Manage inappropriate behavior when it happens

Stay calm and be patient.
Gently but firmly tell the person that the behavior is inappropriate.
Match your body language to your words – frown and shake your head. People with dementia are better at reading nonverbal cues.
Maintain consistent, firm boundaries. Don’t accidentally encourage inappropriate behavior by sending mixed signals, like briefly allowing the behavior one time and then reacting negatively the next time. Be consistently firm every time, saying “No, stop. I don’t like that.” or “Stop, that’s not right.”


No one seems to be managing his behavior if they are not speaking with him about it, In the articles from Business Insider, the comment that Barbara Bush made does not fit the category of managing his behavior, And, if the office knew he did this, they should have warned anyone standing next to him that he does X and this is how they handle it. I bet the women would have opted to have a man stand next to him if they knew his behavior had to be managed. IMHO.

 

[jjenny]

Well, exactly. He is in a wheelchair. If he is known for that sort of behavior (which is what it seems like), he shouldn't be put in close proximity to women he could do this to. Sound like people around him treat it as a "good natured" joke.

 

[TTF14]

People have been standing by letting men get away with this behavior since the beginning of time. There is always a justification, a jump to be on the man's side, and fingers pointing at the victim. Always. And then they ask "Why didn't she come forward sooner?" Well, look around. That's why.

I hate when people say this, too! It's as bad as the original action!

 

[Spellbound]

As per his office he tells a routine joke (that his favourite magician is ‘David-cop-a-feel&#8217 sometimes followed by good natured patting.

MOO He 100% percent knows what he is doing, and he has done it a lot. http://uk.businessinsider.com/president-george-hw-bush-sexual-assault-actress-2017-10?r=US&IR=T

Well, exactly. He is in a wheelchair. If he is known for that sort of behavior (which is what it seems like), he shouldn't be put in close proximity to women he could do this to. Sound like people around him treat it as a "good natured" joke.

OMG .... indeed, I gave him a bit of compassion he does not deserve. This article clearly shows he knows what he is doing and this has not been a one-time nor accidental touch. I am appalled, both with him and for those around him who allowed this to go on.

I appreciate the discussion and for allowing me to voice my former opinion, and for those who brought me “to the light”. Never, ever should this be overlooked and allowed to continue. one time, I might be able to forgive (only if it was truly unintended); blatant and repeated behaviors cannot be tolerated. Those who allow it are just as guilty.

I am truly appalled. :badmood:

 

[Hiandmighty]

If we are going to call it assault every time a demented old man puts a hand on a woman's butt, go arrest every 90 year old man then....

It's bad for trainee nurses who have to deal with demented old men in the hospital/nursing homes. Those old men grab the womens hands and stick it on their penis. Gross!!!

But, yes, instead of rolling eyes, they need to keep him away from women.

ETA: I'll go read the article...

 

[human]

A couple of years ago,I was talking with an old man in his 70’s. When I said goodbye, he kissed me on the lips. Honestly, compared to what other women have gone through, in comparison it was nothing. But it made me sick for months. The violation.

We know this man and he feels that women are second class citizens. He hates Hillary and Angela Merkel. Women should never be the head of a country.

At age in his 70’s, he is online looking for a woman under 40 so he can have children, His ex and children fled from him 20 years ago.

He may be having dementia, but he was this way for years. I have a feeling men who think they can touch women have been that way always.

Gack and more gack. But for more intense touching and other assaults, gack is not an appropriate word.

The trauma. The violation. I have not had that kind of trauma . The ripping into your very soul and being.

How dare they!

 

[CoolJ]

The "cop-a-feel" joke is NOT a joke. It is a tactic for sexual deviants to display their power. I have seen men use this exact same tactic in the past. It is a predators tool.

 

[Hiandmighty]

More with a different picture: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...oman-claims-George-H-W-Bush-grabbed-butt.html

 

[human]

More with a different picture: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...oman-claims-George-H-W-Bush-grabbed-butt.html

Boys will be boys. Just a little locker room humor

 

[Sleepyface]

Oh right, I see, totally innocent & normal behaviour to make people more comfortable as his arm falls lower than most people at the waistline, *just* a joke to put people at ease.

... so remind me again why he hasn’t touched the men he has met in the last five years, on the to put them at ease too? :dunno:

 

[bluesneakers]

If the former president's office knows that he has a regular joke, I agree he knows what he is doing. Rather than taking opinions, I am just looking at the statements made. I doubt that people are so awestruck with him that he needs to put them "at ease" at this point. The idea that the office staff knew and did not counsel him is appalling. This is clearly not dementia or a medical issue. They are admitting this is a joke and action he has done before and it is well-known within the office.



"Following Lind's allegation, the office of former President George H.W. Bush released a statement Wednesday saying Bush had, on occasion, "patted women's rears in what he intended to be a good-natured manner."

"To try to put people at ease, the president routinely tells the same joke — and on occasion, he has patted women's rears in what he intended to be a good-natured manner," the statement read.

"Some have seen it as innocent; others clearly view it as inappropriate," the statement continued." http://uk.businessinsider.com/president-george-hw-bush-sexual-assault-actress-2017-10?r=US&IR=T


The article has another woman's account with a "quote" that Barbara Bush said he was going to get himself put in jail. If the former president was a low functioning 30 year old male or a man who had been drinking to the point of inebriation, many would be calling this an assault and advocating he be arrested for the behavior. Many would argue that there should be culpability for that behavior b/c is not explained/excused by their impairments. Also, if he were in a nursing home and had done these behaviors someone would have spoken with him as the actions would have been deemed an assault and cause the facility to be a risk of losing its license. The former president has his wife by his side, secret service agents, and a cadre of staff who have witnessed his actions. These people who love and work for him owe it to him to school him on how his behavior needs to change.

These women are victims. They are not flaunting their bodies (although they don't deserve it even if they did). They are not having a drink or dinner with him (although they don't deserve it even if they did). You can write anything down about these women you want but they have not done anything to deserve what happened to them. I don't understand how people could be making excuses for his behavior, either in his private life or on this site.

The days of accepting the behavior of a "dirty, old man" should have been over a long, long time ago.

A good natured slap on the rear? An inappropriate joke to put a woman at ease? No. Just no.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Why did the actress not make a scene - pun intended - when GHWB put his hand on her behind? Why did she not push his hand away or turn around and glare at him? I would have done both! I would not let any man other than my husband touch my derriere for any reason, and I wouldn't stand quietly and not say (or do) something to let the man know that I don't approve.

This was a photo/video op that was obviously more important to the actress than her dignity. The time to do something about this is when it's happening, not weeks, months, years after the incident. :moo:

 

[Poppyflower]

Why did the actress not make a scene - pun intended - when GHWB put his hand on her behind? Why did she not push his hand away or turn around and glare at him? I would have done both! I would not let any man other than my husband touch my derriere for any reason, and I wouldn't stand quietly and not say (or do) something to let the man know that I don't approve.

This was a photo/video op that was obviously more important to the actress than her dignity. The time to do something about this is when it's happening, not weeks, months, years after the incident. :moo:

Not everyone will respond the way you do. Sometimes it is shocking when these things happen and you go almost paralyzed, unsure of what to do. Many people do not want to make a scene, especially with an ex-president. I've been in similar situations and I don't want to make a scene, I want to be far away from the person as soon as possible.

Have you had a man (not a husband or boyfriend) put his hand on your and tell you a dirty joke before? If so, how did that make you feel?

You can speculate as to how you would think you would react, but in my experience being violated is a very paralyzing and almost out of body experience. You go into survival mode and just need to get away from the person.

Once again, this woman isn't being seen as a victim in this thread. I find it disturbing. It is never ok for someone to put their hand on your in a sexual way (unless there is consent). NEVER. Whether you make a scene afterwards or not, no one should have that happen to them.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

^ At 67, I've had enough life experience to know that I would most definitely tell any man who touched me or spoke to me inappropriately that I do not approve of his actions/speech. I actually did exactly that when I was 14 years old and attending a family wedding. A drunken uncle made advances towards me, and I pushed him and told him to get away from me! My parents witnessed the interaction and told the man to stay away from me.

 

[Poppyflower]

I'm happy that you had support and felt like you could speak up. Not everyone has that. So awesome that in addition to being supported that your parents spoke up to the man!