AK, NY Israel Keyes - Who are all of his victims???

[GGE]

K He spent three days in Vermont before striking. He even took out a three-day fishing license and fished before the slayings.

To me this is one of the biggest clues there is.

We know he had a kill kit in VT, we know he killed in the same town as the kill kit he had stashed.

We know during the time immediately prior to killing, he got a fishing license. We know he carried a big stinkin bucket (of kill kit stuff, not of fishing stuff) through a nature area at some point during all this.

I'm sure if he carried a bucket and a fishing pole through a nature area that wouldn't get suspicion, right?

We also know he has so-far-unfound kill kits also in TX, WY, and WA. We know he kills right where the kits are. So if these kits were used (which I bet they were) then he killed someone in each of TX, WY, and WA (well ok we already knew that one).

And we know that when he goes to use a kit, he takes his time scoping out the place for a victim... and we know he tends to get fishing licenses and carry buckets around nature preserves during this time.

SO can't SOMEONE check TX, WY, and WA to see if he ever had a fishing license there at any point, and where??

Surely this isn't that difficult.

 

[GGE]

Long shot, given where he claimed killing, but when I read the ABC story abt him traveling the US/long distances to kill, and this:

link
my first thought was Amy Ahonen here in CO, given where her car was found, etc.

Just a thought.

Timeline check -

6/16/2011 - Flew from San Francisco, CA to Anchorage, AK

< 7/8/2011 - Amy Ahonen goes missing from Golden, Colorado >

9/15 - 9/25, 2011: FBI Timeline - Western US

Don't see why she couldn't be one of his victims as well just based on a quick check.

 

[GGE]

link to one of many articles about Garrett...

http://centralny.ynn.com/content/top_stories/561931/death-of-12-year-old-boy-ruled-a-homicide/

IMO the more I think about IK, the more I think that any male too young to be a spouse/boyfriend of a female he was interested in, or to be a source of money, would not be a likely victim of IK. MOO of course. Will still check the timeline though..

Timeline check:

9/15 - 9/25 2011: FBI Timeline - Western US

< 10/24/2011 Garrett Phillips found unconscious in his home, dies at hospital - death ruled a homicide - Potsdam, NY >

2/1/2012 - Sam Koenig was kidnapped and murdered


Well the timeline doesn't rule it out. I guess it's possible Keyes went in thinking there was easy cash, was confronted by the boy, and committed the homicide. I don't "feel it" though, IMHO.

 

[GGE]

Keyes is suspected of having at least 8 victims that he owned up too, but admitted that there were more. My question would be; how many more and who are they..
Seems to me that each time his cell phone & credit card activity went dark in the last decade and a half. He would have either been robbing banks or taking innocent victim's lives..

Yes, this was something it took me a bit to realize when I first saw the FBI timeline in January. I got caught up in trying to match the known travel dates and places with cases.. then I realized that it was when things went dark and we DON"T know where he was, that we must look for cases. You said it much better than me.

 

[GGE]

The pastor of the Church of Wells said Keyes attended the church, before it had opened a location in Wells, after Keyes killed Bill and Lorraine Currier of Essex, Vt. The couple disappeared in June 2011.

The pastor said Keyes attended again after a bank robbery. He then visited his family when they were living in Indiana. Keyes' mother and sister then relocated to Wells with the rest of the church.

ok wait, let me see if I have that right.

1. Keyes attended the church after 6/8/2011 (when he killed the Curriers), but before they opened their Wells location (which was when?)

2. Keyes then attended again on a later date after committing a bank robbery, but before his family relocated to Wells, TX from Indiana (and the pastor knew this, how? I'm sure IK didn't go arround announcing this. Nevertheless, we now know he robbed a bank after 6/8/2011 and before his family relocated- whenever that was.)

3. Keyes then visited his family when they still lived in Indiana, before they relocated to Wells, TX (and when was THIS? We know from his sister's testimony on the Church of Wells website that she and her sisters went to Texas in 11/2011 and then to Maine to visit their parents and then went "back home" to Indiana so we know it was sometime after this).

 

[Wondergirl]

Timeline check -

May 13, 2001 - DUI in Tacoma, Washington while serving at Fort Lewis, WA
July 8, 2001 - discharged from the Army (Ft. Lewis, WA) *he has said he couldn't wait to get out of the Army so he could start killing*

< November 21, 2001 - Kami Vollendroff and Eugene Hyatt disappear from Boiler Bay State Park in Depoe Bay, Oregon >

No further solid dates for the timeline for awhile, so this fits.

Also, Keyes said his first kill was in Washington in 2001. He has also said the couple he killed in Washington was in 2001 - 2005, and that the two individuals he killed in Washington were in 2005-6.

SO, the couple MUST have been his first kill, and they MUST have been killed in 2001, if we can trust what Keyes told LE... and thus far what he has told him has always checked out to the best of my knowledge. So I think this could be a real solid possibility here.

Great sleuthing. Have you sent that in?

 

[GGE]

Great sleuthing. Have you sent that in?

Thanks!

Nope, I've never sent anything in anywhere pertaining to this case or any other.

You guys here are my sounding board.

This case is the first one where I'm seriously considering sharing my map, thoughts, etc once I get it all worked out in my head (which I do by typing and re-typing and re-reading etc, which is why I'm here, really).

 

[digndoodle]

This is the opposite of what I understand to be true. Until the Curriers, none of his victims got any media attention and that was how he wanted it. He said he intentionally chose people who looked like they would be missed less than others, people who were in isolated locations doing solitary things. He said that only one of his prior victims had even ever been found (which is prime way to get media attention - let your victims be found), but it was wrongly ruled an accidental death. While it is true that LE found evidence on his computer that he had read articles online about the Curriers murder and then about Sam Koenig's, it is also true that they stated no other potential leads about potential victims was found on his computers. It is highly likely, IMHO, that he looked up info about their murder only after he heard about it in other mainstream media and realized that for the first time he had committed a crime that got attention.

The media attention was very likely the only thing different about the Curriers' murder as compared to all his others, and I think that difference started his decline right then. He started doing things differently right then, like looking up his victim on his home computer. He'd never done that before - LE found no evidence of him doing that with any prior victims.

When he kidnapped Sam he broke another of his rules - committing a crime in his own town. He was already cracking. And then it happened again - the media attention - and IMHO it further contributed to his undoing. Again, he read about his own crime online - now for the second time. He started breaking still MORE of his own rules, hitting up ATMs in his own town and sending a ransom note, etc... crazy stuff he never did before. But then again, he'd also never committed a crime that had gotten so much attention before.

Hi GGE, I will have to go back and get the article where he was talking to authorities, he said he loved to go home and watch TV coverage or get on his computer and watch all the media attention his victims got and he also came out and said he got about the same rush from knowing he had committed the perfect crime that even LE could not come up with any leads
The one victim he talked about being ruled as an accident is when he told APD he didn't like male victims as much as female because they seemed to not get as much attention and he went on to tell them 1 he had killed (I think Wash. State or Calif.) got ruled as an Accident........in a recent article one of the investigators took several items out of HIS BOAT and what appeared to be blood spatters and showed them to Keyes to try and get more info...they did not specify as of yet if he told them anything about the items from the boat he owned, and then shortly he killed himself.....I feel this was the man ( posted a way back) that they ruled an accident after it looked as if he fell out of his boat and I believe it said the man may have been quiet wealthy...I will have to look to find it...They seized his home computer and in the last article if you will go back and read, the FBI person (the man) said he would sit for hours a day looking at known places Keyes had been and then turn around and go through Keyes Home Computer.....You can bet there was tons and tons of possible victims in that computer....
That is why I feel Keyes was in Florida, no matter what the released timeline states..and he did quiet a bit of dirty work there....at the time of Jenn's abduction there is an almost 3 months un-accounted for on the FBI timeline...........I have never took the FBI timeline at real value, it was released in just a few short days after he killed himself...NO WAY could they have gotten all his travels..absolutely no way....That is what bothered me so bad, it seemed they only wanted to link him to the upper US States and Canada...that is why I was happy when this last article came out, he did fly to Florida and Alabama...and when the search a little more...He will be linked to more lower states I'm sure
About Tara Grindstead...when I said he had been probably watching her for a long time...I meant maybe 2 or 3 days as he did the Curriers.., I feel Keyes traveled a lot and while he was on the road he went through many towns and seems he liked to pick smaller towns...Ocilla Georgia is rural, and small.......I feel he was around there somewhere because there was a Potatoe Festival going on and about all the people there went and enjoyed this event...and Tara had been to a beauty pagent that night helping the young ladies with makeup, then left and went to some friends for a cookout.....I have in my mind always wondered if Keyes could have been a guest at this cookout???, if not I can almost assure you he was lurking somewhere in this small town, perhaps just blending in with local people enjoying the festival
I also feel Young Keyes started out in highly populated public places and I have a thousand reasons as to why.....Just like the Boca Mall Murders....the Jane Doe that he let live along with her son....He took her billfold and told her to tell the police he was short, fat and black....I'm sure he never dreamed she would go to Police and give them such an accurate description of him....and I feel he knew he could be recognized anywhere with this sketch out in public places....He ran scared and I feel this is when he went sneaking back to Wash. State and Anchorage and changed his MO...Jane Doe describes a bag he carried, one of the zip ties was very tight around her neck, he reached in a bag and drew out a KNIFE???...and she saw other items such as cheap sunglasses and etc...He carried his Kill Kits in his young years I feel, and I almost say he was probably homeless at this time if not staying with Cheyne Kehoe or his relatives
GGE....I will say you have to get into the whole KEYES......and that includes people like his childhood friends Chevie and Cheyne....I hope you are familiar with these 2 men and then the father was also arrested for murder, Chevie said nothing but HATE was ever talked about in his homelife....If Kirby Kehoe talked like this to his kids...Did Keyes Father teach the same...YES....I feel it was very possible...The Kehoe's and Keyes were friends, went to the same church and (2)...I stress 2 of the Keyes brothers were seen at an Aryan Nation Meeting and that would have been when Keyes was right at 14 yrs. Old.....He did not start killing after he got out of the Army...I will NEVER believe that...

I believe his 1st victim was Julie Harris she would have been 12 yrs old...she had prosthetic legs...she was reported missing March 3rd 1996...ON April 12 Julie's prosthetic legs and purse were found and then on April 27 of that same year her body was found in the river...This was not far from Keyes home where he grew up at and NOTE*** His parents had turned him out of the house by this time and I'm sure he had no money to speak of....Sadly I feel this young lady was his 1st murder victim and below is a link that the FB page for Keyes thinks fits his next victims
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/1997/jul/30/girls-body-offers-few-clues-in-double-killing-but/

 

[gogrannypop]

I don't believe that IK had anything to do with Garrett. (I see this kids adorable face everywhere I go). I truly believe that Garrett is a domestic incident. Although I am unsure if his murder will ever be solved.

Just basing this on local gossip and rumors and JMO.

 

[GGE]

Hi GGE, I will have to go back and get the article where he was talking to authorities, he said he loved to go home and watch TV coverage or get on his computer and watch all the media attention his victims got and he also came out and said he got about the same rush from knowing he had committed the perfect crime that even LE could not come up with any leads

I read that article again earlier today. I think we just interpreted it differently, that's all.

The one victim he talked about being ruled as an accident is when he told APD he didn't like male victims as much as female because they seemed to not get as much attention and he went on to tell them 1 he had killed (I think Wash. State or Calif.) got ruled as an Accident

I've never read this or heard this. If you can find a news link for this that would be very much appreciated!

in a recent article one of the investigators took several items out of HIS BOAT and what appeared to be blood spatters and showed them to Keyes to try and get more info...they did not specify as of yet if he told them anything about the items from the boat he owned, and then shortly he killed himself....

I also didn't see this article. I hope you can help me find it so I can read it, so far your articles that you link have been wonderfully helpful.

I feel this was the man ( posted a way back) that they ruled an accident after it looked as if he fell out of his boat and I believe it said the man may have been quiet wealthy...I will have to look to find it..

Well, we're three for three now... if you can find a link for this as well, that'd be great. I haven't ever seen anything saying the one person who he killed whose body was recovered, who was ruled an accidental death, was (1) male or (2) looked like he had fallen off a boat OR (3) was from Washington or California.

So, if you have a news link for these statements that'd be excellent. I'm sure you know we can't post rumor or speculation on WebSleuths without noting it as such, we're supposed to back things up with news links, and right now these are things that you are stating that I've never read anyplace else - even anywhere in this thread, so that's why I'm asking. I'm admittedly out of the loop though, I haven't read many articles about IK in the past few months. Hope that didn't come off rude or anything, sometimes it's hard to properly convey how I mean something online, it's easier in person when you can see my smile - Thanks again.

They seized his home computer and in the last article if you will go back and read, the FBI person (the man) said he would sit for hours a day looking at known places Keyes had been and then turn around and go through Keyes Home Computer.....You can bet there was tons and tons of possible victims in that computer....

Oh if I was speculating I might say "I bet there was tons and tons of possible victims in that computer". But I'm not speculating, I'm going by what LE said to media, which was that they only found evidence of him researching the Curriers and Sam Koenig on his computer. Unless I missed a new article that said otherwise?

That is why I feel Keyes was in Florida, no matter what the released timeline states..and he did quiet a bit of dirty work there....at the time of Jenn's abduction there is an almost 3 months un-accounted for on the FBI timeline...........

Yup, that's why I agree with you about him being probably down south, maybe in Florida, killing someone, maybe Jennifer. Because he has the time unaccounted for, and those are the times he was off killing people.

<SBM>

.Jane Doe describes a bag he carried, one of the zip ties was very tight around her neck, he reached in a bag and drew out a KNIFE???...and she saw other items such as cheap sunglasses and etc...He carried his Kill Kits in his young years I feel

Interesting, and quite possible. I have to think on that. Thanks for that idea! (ETA: the KNIFE would then explain Louise Chapuit being stabbed multiple times but still being a strong contender as one of his possible victims - she went missing in 2001... the early years... when he may have carried a kill kit containing a KNIFE -- thanks again for this idea!!)

and I almost say he was probably homeless at this time if not staying with Cheyne Kehoe or his relatives

GGE....I will say you have to get into the whole KEYES......and that includes people like his childhood friends Chevie and Cheyne....I hope you are familiar with these 2 men and then the father was also arrested for murder, Chevie said nothing but HATE was ever talked about in his homelife....

If Kirby Kehoe talked like this to his kids...Did Keyes Father teach the same...YES....I feel it was very possible...The Kehoe's and Keyes were friends, went to the same church and (2)...I stress 2 of the Keyes brothers were seen at an Aryan Nation Meeting and that would have been when Keyes was right at 14 yrs. Old.....

I've read some of this information before. I"ve not explored it thoroughly yet.

I believe his 1st victim was Julie Harris she would have been 12 yrs old...she had prosthetic legs...she was reported missing March 3rd 1996...ON April 12 Julie's prosthetic legs and purse were found and then on April 27 of that same year her body was found in the river...This was not far from Keyes home where he grew up at

SBM - I've also read this theory, that this girl was his first victim. I, personally - JMO - do not believe that's true. I believe that IK gave accurate information to LE, and he stated his first kill was 2001. Again, we will have to agree to disagree.

I quite enjoy your posts, you keep me on my toes, I hope you keep that up. :seeya:

 

[GGE]

http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-801944
Terry and Darleen Anderson, where murdered in their home in Mongo Indiana in LaGrange County on Oct 21, 2005.

TImeline check:

Flew from Los Angeles, CA to Belize on 10/3/2005. No known rental car. Left Belize on 10/31/2005.

< 10/21/2005 - Terry and Darleen Anderson are murdered in their home in Mongo, Indiana >

Okay I have to say even for IK, this just isn't likely. JMO

 

[GGE]

Yes, I wonder about those trips he made to Mexico. One thing that struck me as odd in the timeline that the FBI released was his very brief trip to Hawaii. He arrived one day and left only two days later. A few days after that he was in Mexico. Did he kill someone in Hawaii?

All you can do on a trip that short is dispose of evidence REALLY far from where the crime was committed.

IMHO

 

[GGE]

David Metzler and Heidi Childs are the college couple, still unsolved. Check out the weapon used and what the killer took.

http://www.wjla.com/articles/2012/03/david-metzler-heidi-childs-murder-has-new-leads-74363.html

ETA - his whereabouts are unaccounted for in August 2009. I mean it's most likely a long shot but you never know. They do have DNA in their case.

Timeline check -

7/2009 - according to FB, he visits CA for his grandmother's 90th birthday

<8/26/2009 - David Metzler and Heidi Childs are murderd at Jefferson Nat'l Forest, Virginia; Heidi's purse and credit cards, are stolen + other things >

9/11 - 10/3, 2009: FBI Timeline - Southern US

once again he is unaccounted for at the time of a likely sounding murder. another possibility!

 

[digndoodle]

Quote:
I believe his 1st victim was Julie Harris she would have been 12 yrs old...she had prosthetic legs...she was reported missing March 3rd 1996...ON April 12 Julie's prosthetic legs and purse were found and then on April 27 of that same year her body was found in the river...This was not far from Keyes home where he grew up at
SBM - I've also read this theory, that this girl was his first victim. I do not believe that's true. I believe that IK gave accurate information to LE, and he stated his first kill was 2001. Again, we will have to agree to disagree.

I quite enjoy your posts, you keep me on my toes, I hope you keep that up.
__________________
My Bestest Map (Israel Keyes)

Everyone has their own personal tragedies, just like you do.
So, try to be extra kind to someone today - it might just make all the difference!

GGE....You keep me on mine also...LOL....I don't disagree with anything at this point but one thing I believe Keyes killed way before 2001....even growing up he killed family pets.....Other kids ran from him over a cat and he said he knew then his thinking was not right and he would have to change...with that being said...I do feel that this was probably his 1st victim...very close to when the family turned him out...I'm sure he had nowhere to go and was very short of money and don't you think he was very angry in his teenage mind??? His parents turned him out and denied him any communication with his siblings or any of the family...He was full of rage I'm sure and ONLY in my mind...I feel the reason the young lady he confessed to brutally raping was perhaps living in that community and I can almost bet that the parents somehow worked all this out to not be reported....Keyes was still at home then, turned out of the family home and all of a sudden the Dad UP and moves the entire family clear across the US to Maine...very shortly after all this happened....There has to be a reason this was not reported and I've read where Amish will forgive one of their own quickly for rape, it is all over the Amish communities when you get deep into reading about them.....I just feel these 2 families worked out something to get Keyes not turned in for this and then the Keyes family UP and moved to Maine

 

[GGE]

Agreed that this event prompted the family to move clear cross country, and agreed that rape is often not given the weight it deserves in the Amish community, based on what (admittedly relatively little) I know about the culture. Agreed about him being filled with rage, brutilizing/killing animals as a younger person as well. Also aware of being turned out by his parents... just disagree about his first human kill. At least for now. I haven't been convinced otherwise yet. In fact, my own theory is that he joined the Army because he was so disgusted with himself that he failed to follow through with his original plan of killing is rape victim, and he wanted to be programmed to kill, IYKWIM. JMO, MOO, etc. I think that was another part of why he didn't kill until he left the Army, and exactly why he said he "couldn't wait to get out of the Army" so he could begin killing. This was an exact quote.

He couldn't WAIT to get out of the Army so he could try what he learned because he was just SURE he could "do it right" this time... all in my own opinion of course.

 

[GGE]

John Handrahan disappeared in the SF area a couple of days before Keyes went to Hawaii (and SF is a likely place to catch a Hawaiian flight). On December 11, after Keyes would have been back, his vehicle was found, and his wallet turned up elsewhere.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/h/handrahan_john.html

Oh boy, this one doesn't look good.. I mean, for IK or for his extremely likely victim. Because this looks darn likely IMO.


Timeline check:

Flew from Seattle, WA to Boston, MA on 11/2/2008. Flew from Boston back to Seattle between 11/2 and 11/5/2008. Flew from Seattle to Anchorage, AK on 11/5/2008. (WTF dude, just stashing a kill kit quick, BRB? seriously who does all that traveling in that time frame?)

< 12/1/2008 - John Handrahan disappeared from San Mateo, CA >

12/5/2008 - Flew from Anchorage, AK to Honolulu, HI. No known rental vehicle. Left Honolulu 12/7/2008. (ok same question as above. only reason to go that far for 2 days only is to get rid of evidence REALLY far from where you committed a crime, IMO.)


Sounds totally possible to me that this guy could've been a victim who IK utilized for travel funds, although the amount of traveling it would've taken for IK to be in CA on 12/1 and in AK on 12/5 to then fly to HI until 12/7 is staggering... then again look who we're talking about here.

 

[GGE]

Could this have been the one that was determined to be an accident he was talking about?

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58419&highlight=2007

NY - Edward A. Ratynski Jr., 53, South Fallsburg, 13 Dec 2007 - Fell thru ice?
http://www.recordonline.com/apps/pbc...110341/-1/NEWS

Edward A. Ratynski Jr., 53, was reported missing Dec. 18 from the South Fallsburg boardinghouse he had moved to recently. He was last seen on Dec. 12.

Ah yes, I'm familiar with this case. I researched this one awhile back. There's a problem or two with this timeline though.

12/4 - 16, 2007: Flew from Anchorage, AK to Indianapolis, IN on 12/4/2007. Rented vehicle and drove 537 miles. Left Indianapolis on 12/16/2007.

<12/12/2007 - Boca Raton Mall Murders - sketch looks IDENTICAL to IK, JMO >
*problem - Boca Raton is 2400 miles round-trip from Indianapolis but his rental car only had 537 miles put on it*

< 12/13/2007 - Edward Ratynski goes missing from South Fallsburg, NY >
*problem - Fallsburg is 1450 miles round trip from Indianapolis but the car only had 537 miles put on it*
*problem 2 - even if we ignore the mileage problem, there's a sketch of a suspect in a different murder that took place just one day earlier that looks identical to IK so that one should be considered more likely if we're willing to ignore the mileage issue*

 

[Lucky 1]

Hello all!

I have been following this case and wanted to share a blog with the most comprehensive information on IK I have seen:

http://israelkeyes.blogspot.com/

Not my blog, but she has really put some time and effort into it.

 

[GGE]

You're probably right. I think we should start by looking for victims towards the beginning and ends of the date ranges LE provided.

Good thinking!

Let's check to see if this theory holds up against known incidents:

1. Flew from Seattle, WA to Manchester, NH on 4/7/2009.
2. Rented a vehicle and put 1,047 miles on it.
3. Checked into Handy Suites motel in Essex, VT for a 2-night stay on 4/8.
4. Abducted and killed someone in or near New York - disposed of the body in NY.
5. Robbed a bank in Tupper Lake, NY on 4/10/2009.
6. Left Manchester, NH on 4/14/2009.


1. Flew from Anchorage, AK to Chicago, IL on 6/2/2011.
2. Rented a vehicle the same day - 6/2/2011 - and drove to Essex, VT.
3. Arrived in Essex, VT on 6/5 & checked into same Handy Suites motel as before.
4. Killed the Curriers on 6/8. Drove to visit relatives in Maine, stopping in NH on the way back to dispose of evidence in a National Forest, then drove to Parishville, NY to dispose of evidence.
5.
6. Left Chicago, IL for San Francisco, CA on 6/15/2011. Flew from San Francisco to Anchorage on 6/16/2011.


1. Killed Sam Koenig in Anchorage, AK on 2/1/2012
2. Flew from Anchorage, AK to Houston, TX on 2/2/2012.
3. Rented vehicle and drove 2,847 miles.
4. Went on a 2 week cruise out of New Orleans from about 2/3 -2/15, 2012.
5. Robbed Azle, TX bank on 2/16/12. Burned down home in Aledo, TX.
6. Left Houston on 2/17/2012.


Okay, one of these lists is not like the other. What's missing, folks?

 

[GGE]

Keyes is described as highly organized. From what I understand, as he traveled, he left stashes in various parts of the country. Is it possible he stashed the gun in a prior visit, perhaps he traveled by car, found his victims, waited for the right time, and returned to the state to complete the crime, the shooting at a later date? I don't know if he was organized in this way, if he could delay whatever satisfaction he got from killing. I don't think he could board a plane with a gun.

ok I've read so much controversy about the gun being brought to Chicago, let me just post this part of this article for anyone who hasn't seen it yet.

"In his checked luggage on the Chicago-bound flight, Keyes has a handgun — which is legal, because it is declared, unloaded and secured, according to FAA regulations. Also in his bag is a homemade silencer, which is illegal simply to possess, to say nothing about carrying it across the country on an airplane. But Keyes has disassembled the silencer into its PVC piping parts, and it raises no red flags with screeners."

http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/...chorage-Texas-Arizona-serial-killer-Ted-Bundy