AK - Samantha Koenig, 18, Anchorage, 01 Feb 2012 - #7

[ryanemsmom]

Yes, I completely agree with this. I hopefully will never be in this position, but hope if I am, I will be calm and brave enough to remember this. I would rather be shot AND killed on the street than taken anywhere, because the odds are truly against you. However, I think this is a very hard talk to have with your kids w/out scaring the heck out of them (even following the stranger danger tips).

I have had this conversation with my kids, and refreshed it today. It is actually easy when they have already been taught stranger danger. I and their schools have taught them to scream HELP! FIRE! at the top of their lungs if anyone tries to take them. Adding on the kicking and screaming part was natural. My older daughter I told to bite their hand if they try to cover her mouth to stop the screaming.

I am with you BrownRice though, that if, heaven forbid, this were to ever happen to myself or my kids, I and they would remember this.

ETA - We live in Anchorage and they are well aware of the SK situation. They have already had the heck scared out of them. Telling them she was found dead was one of the hardest things I have ever had to do, but I didn't want them hearing about it on the playground at school.

 

[swanniee11]

I have had computer problems, just finding this out now. So very sad! RIP Samantha. Heart breaking. Prayers to her family and friends.

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

No Death Penalty in Alaska? WTH? :thud:

Whisperer...this is O/T...but with your experience with rapist/murderers, I am curious at what age do these perps recognize their own destructive needs? Do they recognize that they are not considered to be acceptable members of society?
I have researched common behaviors witnessed in young killers I.e. harming animals, etc. But I am curious at what age do the perps themselves recognize their own deviance?
TIA

 

[NFYIAMY]

I've been tied up with work, family and life the last couple of days. Just logged in here to see if any progress had been made and my heart dropped when I saw the 'found deceased' attached to the link.

Makes me so very very sad. My heart goes out to her family.

 

[SmoothOperator]

Why would any person take the chance that they will be killed if they resist, rather than do as the kidnapper says, with the possibility that they will live a little while longer or manage to escape or be rescued?
I'm sorry, but 9 out of 10 people are not going to stand their ground with a gun pointed at them, especially young women. Survival is an instinct and everyone is going to fight to survive. Sometimes a victim has no choice. If the guy is bigger and stronger and has a gun, you think a young woman or a child could manage to stand in one spot while he's forcing them to walk? The best they could do is scream as loud as they can, which would probably get them clobbered on the head or a knife in their back.

And I believe you summed up what is precisely Whisp's point that she's hitting home.. at worst case scenario the bast*** retaliates for your having fought back, refused to go submissively, or stood your ground..he retaliates as you say by clobbering you on the head or stabbing at you with a knife.. and that's at worst case scenario which isn't the most likeliest.. most likeliest perp is not sticking around, but lets go with the worst case scenario of his retaliating with clobbering in the head, stabbing, and I'll even add in his retaliating by shooting with a gun.. all of these worst case scenarios are trumped in spades at what is the alternative of not standing your ground, fighting like hell with everything you're made of and even then some.. of not doing that and instead choosing to be submissive and not give the bast*** any "trouble".. what he has awaiting for you is what nightmares are made of.. torture, rape, and death to not get into any specifics..

So in looking at the truth of the matter whatever the bast*** inflicts upon you in retaliation for fighting him(ie. Like your examples clobbered in the head, stabbed and I add even possibly shot) those are NOTHING COMPARED TO THE BRUTALITY THAT WILL BE INFLICTED ONCE HE HAS YOU OUT OF SIGHT.. those tortures and inevitable death trump in spades everytime any or all of the "possible" things he may or may not attempt to do to you for fighting back and not going with him.. those IMO look like a day at the park when compared to the reality of what he has awaiting you.. that there is no doubt.. there is no question of he may or may not as there is in the "will he retaliate for fighting him scenario".. Nope.. it is a guarantee that he will inflict all of those horrors on you once he has secured you out of sight..

IMO Whisp's point is clear.. whatever may or may not be done to you when you fight for your life not to leave with the perp.. that no matter how horrific those possibilities of retaliation may appear, they are nothing in comparison with what is guaranteed that will be done to you if he succeeds in taking you..

That's jmo, tho and Whisperer may have a better or different way of explaining it..

 

[LucyOso]

That area, from my knowledge and past use is locked at a certain time at night.
The neighbor said that he has lived there only a month, but become familiar with sounds of people cutting holes, ice fishing, that he didn't really take notice until he saw all the tents and people. (or something like that, i am surmising based on crappy recollection).

That may have been how he got access to the lake at an odd hour. There is housing on the lake. IK is a carpenter. Maybe he was remodeling or perhaps, he did some work on one of those places. He was known to work at all hours of the night, so that would not raise flags if he was there working...

As for how strange it seems to me that they would know where to drill and find her so fast, it is possible he weighted her down. And even when an ice hole refreezes if you have a general location, it is possible to see the inconsistencies in the ice formation to get a pin point location of a previous hole.

Also: Perhaps police looked at some of the debit purchases made by IK and saw he bought an auger, poles, etc. Remember they did find the body of a male in another lake. Perhaps, they were tracking some movements like gas purchases and thinking he was going to dump the body in a lake. Because wouldn't that lake be frozen as well?

 

[LucyOso]

I watched a video on abc news.com about her father saying she had a restraining order she wanted to files against a man she didn't even know, but was to afraid to go through with it in court, perhaps frightened the notion may infuriate him?
Does anyone have more info on this, such as is this man IK?

Do you have a link for this video? Thanks!

 

[BrownRice]

I have had this conversation with my kids, and refreshed it today. It is actually easy when they have already been taught stranger danger. I and their schools have taught them to scream HELP! FIRE! at the top of their lungs if anyone tries to take them. Adding on the kicking and screaming part was natural. My older daughter I told to bite their hand if they try to cover her mouth to stop the screaming.

I am with you BrownRice though, that if, heaven forbid, this were to ever happen to myself or my kids, I and they would remember this.

ETA - We live in Anchorage and they are well aware of the SK situation. They have already had the heck scared out of them. Telling them she was found dead was one of the hardest things I have ever had to do, but I didn't want them hearing about it on the playground at school.

Yes, I've had these discussions very much with kids. But I mean - how do you say, if the bad guy has a gun (or whatever) you'd rather he kill you than you go with him (but he probably won't kill you).

I have such a heavy heart for her family tonight.

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

R.i.p. Samantha, I just this moment heard the news. :rose:

 

[LucyOso]

Whisperer...this is O/T...but with your experience with rapist/murderers, I am curious at what age do these perps recognize their own destructive needs? Do they recognize that they are not considered to be acceptable members of society?
I have researched common behaviors witnessed in young killers I.e. harming animals, etc. But I am curious at what age do the perps themselves recognize their own deviance?
TIA

This is a great question! I would love to here more about this.

I wonder with sociopaths if the recognize they are not "acceptable members of society". I think the go more for the what can society do for me, my acts are justified because I am better than society, etc...perhaps. I think they know what is "right and wrong" but not how it applies to them in some ways.

I don't think this is IKs first time. The first time happened around when he got caught for a DUI, possibly even leaving a scene or disposing of a body. I have read about how the after certain acts that polarize the mind, people will do drugs, drink, etc to suppress the guilt, etc. He got a DUI and he got away with it murder or rape and it filled his ego. And he learned to be more careful. Eventually, though he had to move as too many people disappeared in areas where he was. I seriously think he may have been a name that has popped up before and that is where a connection came into play. Ideas?

 

[sfbaynancydrew]

Is it possible he walked Samantha out onto the lake under duress or maybe under false promises of letting her go once they were far enough away from the street? He clearly had a gun from the video, maybe he knew of an open hole, shot her, pushed her in and that was it.

I'm starting to think that the "retaliation" the police feared from releasing the video may be his truck WITH the toolbox and identifying information. Perhaps once they got to him it was gone. I mean, he had, what 16 HOURS before she was even reported missing?

Perhaps the police are going on the "killed within hours" theory because she looked like she did when she went missing? I would imagine ice preserves the body (sorry for coming across so callous in text, I'm devastated by her murder, my thoughts are just racing). I would think if you had been held for a length of time, you'd be a little worse for the wear? Maybe Israel TOTALLY confessed down to exactly what he had done and this is what they're also basing it on?

Although if that was the case, why would they still be asking for witnesses/help identifying where the truck has been and where the camper shell is??

I hope they release a little more info soon.

RIP Samantha.

 

[akmom02]

Do you have a link for this video? Thanks!

I think they are probably referring to the video from Feb regarding CB, there's been nothing of this nature since then anywhere locally or that I can find at ABC except for that video.

 

[cluciano63]

I wonder if perhaps LE took IK with them to the lake, to point out the exact spot, as I cannot see how Samantha was found relatively quickly otherwise.

Nothing more from LE today, locally, I guess?

 

[ryanemsmom]

I wonder if perhaps LE took IK with them to the lake, to point out the exact spot, as I cannot see how Samantha was found relatively quickly otherwise.

Nothing more from LE today, locally, I guess?

I assumed the divers were using sonar to "see" underwater. It isn't a huge lake.

 

[sfbaynancydrew]

Do we have ANY user names on IK??? Still trying to find more of a web history.

All I've found so far is on skype:

israel.keyes

under: [email protected]

He obviously tends to just use his name.

Anyone else?

Also found this random profile citysearch (it's empty, but his user name)

http://my.citysearch.com/members/public/profile/israel.keyes

His email account is routed through a yahoo exchange.

There is a 2nd Skype name under Israel Keyes that might be the other IK (the other murderer). The user name is israelkeyes with an email of [email protected]

 

[joslmaman]

Interestingly enough, tonight as I was discussing this case with my mom (she is local, I just spend mysummers in Ak) she said she saw the surveillance video one time on tv. My sister heard from other people that they also saw the tape once. My mom says she is positive she saw it, and shortly after they pulled it and said it would not be aired...

Did any other locals hear or see this?

 

[akmom02]

Interestingly enough, tonight as I was discussing this case with my mom (she is local, I just spend mysummers in Ak) she said she saw the surveillance video one time on tv. My sister heard from other people that they also saw the tape once. My mom says she is positive she saw it, and shortly after they pulled it and said it would not be aired...

Did any other locals hear or see this?

No- the tape was never released to the media, which caused a lot of conspiracy theories locally and nationally for that matter and quite of bit of an uproar from the community in general. Many thought someone in the area may recognize the abductor by his gait or mannerisms and be helpful to finding Sam. The police described the video and some people made their own (youtube style) of what they thought may have happened on the video, but the only ones to see in the beginning were LE and the Common Grounds owners.

One of the tv stations (I "think" it was KTVA) filed a freedom of information request to have LE release it just recently. But viewing it at this point, IMO would only be ghoulish unless you were directly involved with the prosecution of IK.

 

[joslmaman]

No- the tape was never released to the media, which caused a lot of conspiracy theories locally and nationally for that matter and quite of bit of an uproar from the community in general. Many thought someone in the area may recognize the abductor by his gait or mannerisms and be helpful to finding Sam. The police described the video and some people made their own (youtube style) of what they thought may have happened on the video, but the only ones to see in the beginning were LE and the Common Grounds owners.

One of the tv stations (I "think" it was KTVA) filed a freedom of information request to have LE release it just recently. But viewing it at this point, IMO would only be ghoulish unless you were directly involved with the prosecution of IK.

I know that's what is being reported. I was just curious if anyone had heard otherwise.

 

[akmom02]

I know that's what is being reported. I was just curious if anyone had heard otherwise.

Nope- we're local and have been helping/watching/praying since the beginning, I don't think even JK has seen the video

 

[Cazzie]

Nope- we're local and have been helping/watching/praying since the beginning, I don't think even JK has seen the video

I completely understand why LE kept that video under wraps...even from JK...

It's just that those of us following the case from Day One wanted to see it, to help, to sleuth, etc..

Like I said, I understand why it wasn't released. LE/FBI obviously knew what they were doing and tracked IK down...all the way to Texas.

And now, sadly, Sam has been found. I'm pretty sure that IK gave them enough info to find her. JMO.