AK - Samantha Koenig, 18, Anchorage, 01 Feb 2012 - #7

[Ransom]

That is probably because on this case there were so many incredible rumors. Rumors about her father, her being involved in drugs, the boyfriend...you name it. The rumors were flying.

I always thought this was a random abduction and she would be found dead sadly. I think people go way overboard with the gossip and speculation in many of these cases. Sadly the victims lives are often scrutinized to a point of absurdity.

JMHO

Thank you and AMEN. FB rumors, "comments" under online articles, reward fund distractions, etc. grew legs and became "facts". RIP Samantha.

 

[BeeBeeOh]

It was one of the ""odd" things noticed during the speculation phase of us arm chair detectives.

 

[Ransom]

I still don't understand the mystery about online presence- or lack thereof-


why was Samantha's FB and online existence obviously scrubbed?

Link(s) for this please. TIA.

 

[Fire Dragon]

I wanted to reply to individual comments, but decided to just make one comment. There is so much here that isn't garden-variety urban crime.

• I don't believe the ice has changed much in a month. Warm ambient air temperatures and hot sunshine doesn't melt the ice underneath a substantial snow layer. Snow is insulation. Lake ice lasts long after there's no ground coverage of snow at all.
  You can see from the photos that there is no overflow. It means nothing melted.

• I'm unfamiliar with the term "Tribal Patch", in someone's comments. I don't know what that is and I've never heard it before.
  Neah Bay is a reservation. It's "Indian Country."
  There's no requirement that you be Makah or Native American as a condition of employment with the tribe. That's a FACT.
  Tribal initiatives actively seek to employ tribal members. People who already live there and always have. Reservations often have high rates of unemployment and few available jobs. Tribes are motivated in "job creation." It's a disservice to put that out there - that tribes won't hire you unless you're Native American. It's simply not true anywhere.

• Israel Keye's profile - military service, living in Washington state, moving to Alaska, self-employment, owning property elsewhere - isn't much different than most Alaskans. Not unique. Not indicative of some kind of wandering lifestyle. Pretty typical for Alaska. Think about it for a sec. Most of Alaska is folks from somewhere else. MOST of the urban population is people who moved there for a job.
  
  Honestly, I don't see that it's much different than any other American. Americans move around a lot.

 

[BeeBeeOh]

I cannot provide links to FB pages of people who are not suspects.

 

[Deleted member 718]

I am so curious about how Samantha was located, even if IK confessed....unless they took him out there with them and he pointed out the spot?

What about her cell phone?

 

[Ransom]

I cannot provide links to FB pages of people who are not suspects. And you have to read through their history up to 9 months ago. But all of the people still have public pages, should you want to see for yourself. Also, here on websleuths if you read through the earlier threads, you will see where a few posters realized this at the same time (very early in the case). (I read all, every single post) of the threads in the past week, and could not pin point the exact post.

Cannot sleuth them = cannot discuss.

 

[ryanemsmom]

I wanted to reply to individual comments, but decided to just make one comment. There is so much here that isn't garden-variety urban crime.

• I don't believe the ice has changed much in a month. Warm ambient air temperatures and hot sunshine doesn't melt the ice underneath a substantial snow layer. Snow is insulation. Lake ice lasts long after there's no ground coverage of snow at all.
  You can see from the photos that there is no overflow. It means nothing melted.

• I'm unfamiliar with the term "Tribal Patch", in someone's comments. I don't know what that is and I've never heard it before.
  Neah Bay is a reservation. It's "Indian Country."
  There's no requirement that you be Makah or Native American as a condition of employment with the tribe. That's a FACT.
  Tribal initiatives actively seek to employ tribal members. People who already live there and always have. Reservations often have high rates of unemployment and few available jobs. Tribes are motivated in "job creation." It's a disservice to put that out there - that tribes won't hire you unless you're Native American. It's simply not true anywhere.

• Israel Keye's profile - military service, living in Washington state, moving to Alaska, self-employment, owning property elsewhere - isn't much different than most Alaskans. Not unique. Not indicative of some kind of wandering lifestyle. Pretty typical for Alaska. Think about it for a sec. Most of Alaska is folks from somewhere else. MOST of the urban population is people who moved there for a job.
  
  Honestly, I don't see that it's much different than any other American. Americans move around a lot.

Re: the lake ice. I respectfully disagree. I have been ice fishing at numerous lakes, and have seen ice break up in a lake while there is still snow on it. The snow will melt to a much thinner depth, but once the sun starts beating down on it the ice thins fast.

http://climate.umn.edu/doc/ice_out/ice_out_description.htm

This is a nice synopsis about lake ice thawing. The ice definitely thaws from the bottom up, and it is why lakes get really dangerous once the sun is beating down. The surface will look normal, but the ice is thin.

 

[Fire Dragon]

Forgive me if I violate the rules. I've read the guidelines and will do my best.

It's a bit difficult to discuss the more esoteric bits, if there's no link to apply.

 

[Deleted member 718]

Forgive me if I violate the rules. I've read the guidelines and will do my best.

It's a bit difficult to discuss the more esoteric bits, if there's no link to apply.

Welcome to Websleuths Fire Dragon!!

Just be sure to say it's your opinion. Or a theory you have in mind. It's only your second post here, so the moderators will be most happy to help you get started. I think Bessie is the moderator for the Samantha forum. Find a post by her and send her a private message with a more specific question. She's as helpful as can be.

I look forward to reading what you have in mind.

 

[Ransom]

I know someone with a screen cap of someones FB page from 2011 that shows that Sam commented on her picture. May I post that to prove myself? (I feel like I am on trial and desperetly want to prove I am not wack a doodle)

I in no way think you are a wack a doodle. You can't SC someones FB per TOS (TOS is terms of services = Rules) ... just my opinion.

BUT ... you can private message our Moderator (Bessie) and ask.

Here's our Bessie's post. http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7757073&highlight=Bessie#post7757073

Click on her name and a screen will show. Click on private message. Ask her your question. HTH.

OR as a shortcut: click on your own post that I quoted where the triangle RED ! is. A box will show up. Ask your question, send and she'll get back to you.

 

[Deleted member 718]

Re: the lake ice. I respectfully disagree. I have been ice fishing at numerous lakes, and have seen ice break up in a lake while there is still snow on it. The snow will melt to a much thinner depth, but once the sun starts beating down on it the ice thins fast.

http://climate.umn.edu/doc/ice_out/ice_out_description.htm

This is a nice synopsis about lake ice thawing. The ice definitely thaws from the bottom up, and it is why lakes get really dangerous once the sun is beating down. The surface will look normal, but the ice is thin.

"Investigators cut a dive hole through ice 2 1/2- to 3-feet thick.

That's still pretty thick ice. From what I've seen, ice starts melting around the edges of a lake. The center is the last to thaw. It turns into a slushy mess not really an ice breakup.

Read more here: http://www.adn.com/2012/04/03/2406095/details-in-koenig-case-remain.html#storylink=cpy

 

[BeeBeeOh]

ok i think i did it right... also edited my previous posts until answered.

 

[bessie]

I know someone with a screen cap of someones FB page from 2011 that shows that Sam commented on her picture. May I post that to prove myself? (I feel like I am on trial and desperetly want to prove I am not wack a doodle)

No, I'm sorry. We can't post screencaps of FB pages of people other than the victim and suspect.

ETA: I don't find it odd that her FB was removed. It happens sometimes.

 

[Psychic Sleuth]

I know someone with a screen cap of someones FB page from 2011 that shows that Sam commented on her picture. May I post that to prove myself? (I feel like I am on trial and desperetly want to prove I am not wack a doodle)

Oh I believe you and wasn't implying I didn't. It's just I've heard comments like this that were very non specific. I'm guessing here....but perhaps to avoid the scrutiny of those rushing to her FB page to check it out her family deleted the account or asked FB too? I just don't think it's all that strange and if my loved one were missing I might do the same.

I have another idea and that is perhaps she did have someone stalking her and she removed it herself prior to going missing. (Although I think this is less likely)

 

[907]

Does ice thickness really matter? Or was it just a question?

I will have to agree more with firedragon here...

IMO, the ice has melted very little so far. Heck, the roads are barely melted off and they are black an retain heat.

there is still a good snow layer on that lake in the video, the snow both reflects the light and acts as insulation.

Another thing in the freeze process in mid jan and mid feb is the snow we had. The more snow on the ice, the more as it acts as an insulation to the outside air. Once the lake has ice on it, and then snow, the amount and rate at whcih it freezes slows.

So, even though there was record cold, the ice wouldn't necessarily be record depth, because we also had record snow.

So, arguably, the lake had more ice in Feb, than now.... but it is de minimis IMO.... if it is 2'6" currently, then it may have been 2'8" then...

 

[Ransom]

Forgive me if I violate the rules. I've read the guidelines and will do my best.

It's a bit difficult to discuss the more esoteric bits, if there's no link to apply.

This will help with your stance and mine too about the Makah People @ Neah Bay employment.

http://www.makah.com/pdfs/AppForm.pdf

HTH for those that wonder if "outsiders" can be employed.

 

[bessie]

What about her cell phone?

If they could track her cell phone, she would've been found much sooner. By this time, her cell phone wouldn't be transmitting because the battery would be dead.

 

[Ransom]

Does ice thickness really matter? Or was it just a question?

I will have to agree more with firedragon here...

IMO, the ice has melted very little so far. Heck, the roads are barely melted off and they are black an retain heat.

there is still a good snow layer on that lake in the video, the snow both reflects the light and acts as insulation.

Another thing in the freeze process in mid jan and mid feb is the snow we had. The more snow on the ice, the more as it acts as an insulation to the outside air. Once the lake has ice on it, and then snow, the amount and rate at whcih it freezes slows.

So, even though there was record cold, the ice wouldn't necessarily be record depth, because we also had record snow.

So, arguably, the lake had more ice in Feb, than now.... but it is de minimis IMO.... if it is 2'6" currently, then it may have been 2'8" then...

It doesn't make a difference in my opinion.

Please everyone read this about the efforts that good men risked to find our Samantha:

http://www.adn.com/2012/04/03/2406095/details-in-koenig-case-remain.html

ICE DIVING IN MURKY LAKE

Before a pair of divers went into the water Monday, the team used sonar and a remotely operated vehicle to look under the ice, Bartenfeld said. Investigators cut a dive hole through ice 2 1/2- to 3-feet thick.

"If you can cut down on the amount of work in the water, that's good. You're working in an environment that's hostile to human life," said Chacon, who's been diving for the FBI for 17 years, longer than any other agent.

That evening, Bartenfeld and another diver slipped into the murky, dark lake water. They couldn't see, but they were guided by the sonar, he said. They felt well-prepared. They are ice-diving certified and use layers of extra FBI procedure to ensure safety, Chacon said.

The divers were tethered to land through hoses that supplied air from a surface tank and provided a channel for communications and depth measurements. They wore helmets to protect their heads from the cold and ice.

They didn't have to dive deep, maybe 40 feet. They stayed in the water just under an hour.

Support crews included FBI paramedics, other divers monitoring equipment, and Anchorage police. About two dozen people were there in all.

much more at the link for the HEROES that found Samantha Koenig.

 

[bessie]

Forgive me if I violate the rules. I've read the guidelines and will do my best.

It's a bit difficult to discuss the more esoteric bits, if there's no link to apply.

Hello, Fire Dragon. If you've read the guidelines, you should be fine. But if you're ever in doubt, pm me or one of the mods listed at the bottom of the main page of this sub-forum. Any of us will be glad to help you.

:welcome3:
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