AK - Samantha Koenig, 18, Anchorage, 1 Feb 2012 - #2

[bdawk20]

um...why am I under the impression, the camera was from the parking lot and not inside the hut---?? ( I could have made it all up in my head...) I for some reason think she voluntarily approached her abductor and its clear she knew them, that why the tape isn't released, and that's why there are no civilian search parties for her--- are we sure the cameras were inside the coffee hut?

There is a camera inside the hut. Joe Friday pointed it out in a pic that is posted somewhere probably in the 1st thread. I remember it was a pic of 3 or 4 girls inside, and it was one of those black "bubble" types up in the far corner behind them. Interestingly, I do remember that it was opposite the door, so if he obscured it (as the owners said), he would have had to have walked in and right towards it (and past Sam) to get to it....unless there is more than one. With how tiny the business is, I think that one would have pretty much covered the whole area. I will see if I can go back and find that pic to re-post..

 

[bdawk20]

OK, I found it, but I can't get the URL to work to re-post the pic. <modsnip>

 

[GateKeeper]

um...why am I under the impression, the camera was from the parking lot and not inside the hut---?? ( I could have made it all up in my head...) I for some reason think she voluntarily approached her abductor and its clear she knew them, that why the tape isn't released, and that's why there are no civilian search parties for her--- are we sure the cameras were inside the coffee hut?

YES!!!!:great:
I truelly.TRUELLY believe that Sam knew her "abductor".
IMO...of course.

 

[Knox]

If her phone was left behind why didn't anyone answer it when James repeatedly called the phone the next morning before the phone went dead?

It just doesn't make sense that her phone was left behind. A phone ringing over and over in a small hut like that would be annoying. Someone would have found it, answered it, talked to James and realized Sam had not been seen or heard from since the night before.

We know she received a call from James and her BF prior to her shift ending so I don't think the reason no one would have noticed the phone if left behind is because the phone was in silent mode. If the phone was tucked away in her purse or cubby on silent mode than she wouldn't have picked up the phone when James or her BF called prior to the abduction.

I'm sticking with the phone was with her or had been disposed of somewhere and the phone was not left behind in the coffee hut. I don't think the abductor would have made her place the phone in silent mode and place it where ever her other belongings where in the coffee hut. We know the phone had to be on or all the phone calls James described would have gone directly to voice mail. So if the phone was in the coffee hut it should have rang and gained the attention of the workers there in the morning.


JMO

She could have had it on silent and it was in her purse, I do that when I am at work. Then check it to see if I have any calls or texts.

James said he spoke to Sam 90 minutes before her shift ended that night. Does that mean she called him or he called her, that wasn't clear in his comment.

 

[ak81]

This is a YouTube video that shows both the inside and outside cameras that Common Grounds has. (I don't know if this was shown before..) The stand (a different one of their 3 locations, but same camera system) was hit by a drunk driver a few years ago. This just gives an interesting perspective of what might've been seen by the cameras.
http://youtu.be/uCj_XrtE_wI

 

[GutFeeling!]

um...why am I under the impression, the camera was from the parking lot and not inside the hut---?? ( I could have made it all up in my head...) I for some reason think she voluntarily approached her abductor and its clear she knew them, that why the tape isn't released, and that's why there are no civilian search parties for her--- are we sure the cameras were inside the coffee hut?

I was under that impression too, because initially the police said she left the coffee place and walked towards a road, with the abductor, and then they couldn't see her. That could have been seen from the inside I guess, but it makes sense to think the camera was outside.

 

[mamacita]

Just my 2 cents.. if I was working all alone at night... let alone in a little hut in the middle of a parking lot... I would have my phone on me at all times... plus this doesn't strike me as the type of place where the girls would get in trouble for having their phone with them. And if she had already been communicating with her dad and bf that night via phone, I doubt she put it away, out of sight.

 

[bdawk20]

Just my 2 cents.. if I was working all alone at night... let alone in a little hut in the middle of a parking lot... I would have my phone on me at all times... plus this doesn't strike me as the type of place where the girls would get in trouble for having their phone with them. And if she had already been communicating with her dad and bf that night via phone, I doubt she put it away, out of sight.

I was thinking that since her bf spoke with her last, that call/text was letting her know he was on his way. I wonder if at that point, she put the phone away in her purse because she should have been leaving soon?

 

[bdawk20]

Just thinking.....just because her belongings were apparently left behind at Common Grounds doesn't mean they were left out in plain view. I believe a description of her coat is included in her missing poster, so she wore that, but maybe he put her purse with her phone, etc. in a cabinet, or maybe it was even found right outside in a trashcan? This would explain why the morning shift wasn't bothered by her things being left....maybe they didn't see them, but were found later once the video alerted the owners/LE to the abduction.

 

[Joe Friday]

OK, I found it, but I can't get the URL to work to re-post the pic. <modsnip>

<modsnip>

The post might of gotten deleted because there was pictures of ladies that were working at Common Grounds but were not named who knows. I usually just copy the URL for a photo and post it here on WS and if the photo is deleted elsewhere then the picture will be gone also. That might be why you couldn't get the link to work.


Common Grounds has really cleaned up their fb photo's also. They did away with a lot of the pictures they had posted including the ones I posted earlier showing where the camera was located inside the building and what view I thought the camera would have captured.

<modsnip>

Maybe LE called and said get that picture off there too. Who knows. We will have to see if this picture disappears.


<modsnip photo>

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

Very common in AK. (Hubby's a private pilot.). As for the planes there, many are seaplanes or bush planes (can be landed on any relatively flat land, no runway necessary.)

link

Thanks for the informative article regarding seaplanes/bush planes!

Wow! Your Hubby's job must be exciting, but must make you cringe!:seeya:

 

[Joe Friday]

Both main airports in Anchorage are towered fields and records would have been kept of all departing aircraft that night. The tower at Merrill Field would have only been open until 10:00PM that night however.

The two main airports which planes would use in Anchorage are Ted Stevens Anchorage International Airport & Merrill Field Airport.

Radio communications are also recorded and you can listen to the archives if you would like to see which planes took off that night after Sam was abducted.

The following links cover about 30 minutes starting at 8:00PM local time.

Ted Stevens Anchorage International Airport PANC http://archive-server.liveatc.net/panc/PANC-Feb-02-2012-0500Z.mp3

Merrill Field Airport Radio PARM http://archive-server.liveatc.net/pamr/PAMR-Feb-02-2012-0500Z.mp3

You will need to go to this link http://www.liveatc.net/archive.php if you would like to listen to other dates and times, include the airport identifier which I included after the airport name above for other times and dates. Times are listed in UTC time and 8:00PM Anchorage time is 05:00 UTC time on the following day. So 8:00PM Feb 1, 2012 local time will be 0500 Feb 2, 2012 UTC time.


If you hear a plane on the radio and you want to find out what kind of plane it is and who owns it you can do that at the following link by entering the tail number of the plane. "Heavy" planes are large airliners. http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_Inquiry.aspx

 

[bessie]

I've removed the photos copied and pasted from FB. First of all, the rule regarding public FB pages says generally you can reference a post with a comment that will help other members find it -- like the date and time for instance -- then provide a link. We are not allowed to copy and paste. The rule applies to photos, as well, especially when the photos depict individuals who are neither the victim nor a suspect. It is also a violation of the rules to post or reference a mod-deleted post.

Aside from the rules, caution and common sense suggest it's a bad idea to post those photos. An employee has been abducted from the coffee shop and remains missing. At this time, we have to presume the possibility that the perp is a stranger, and his motivation is unknown. The safety of the other employees is a high priority. If we place ourselves or our daughters in their position, I doubt that we would want those images circulating on the web. (Personally, I also question whether it's wise to point out the security cameras and their placement inside the shop.)

I'm glad to hear that the coffee shop is removing photos from FB. That should tell us something right there.

 

[Seek&Find]

Thanks for the informative article regarding seaplanes/bush planes!

Wow! Your Hubby's job must be exciting, but must make you cringe!:seeya:

You're welcome. . Flying is his hobby for 20+ years. We've flown all over the US, but not in AK. (We pondered it, but there's a ton of safety equip you have to have on board.)

 

[Wondergirl]

<modsnip>

The post might of gotten deleted because there was pictures of ladies that were working at Common Grounds but were not named who knows. I usually just copy the URL for a photo and post it here on WS and if the photo is deleted elsewhere then the picture will be gone also. That might be why you couldn't get the link to work.


Common Grounds has really cleaned up their fb photo's also. They did away with a lot of the pictures they had posted including the ones I posted earlier showing where the camera was located inside the building and what view I thought the camera would have captured.

<modsnip>

Maybe LE called and said get that picture off there too. Who knows. We will have to see if this picture disappears.


<modsnip photo>

Joe, I wondered why that business had those pictures of the Common Ground girls on there, dressed like that, especially given the circumstances.

I confess, I just don't get the whole Coffee Shack thing. It seems pretty unwise to me.

 

[Knox]

I found a case tonight that made me think of Samantha's. Hoping nothing like this has happened to her, but it was hard not to let my imagination draw a parallel. I wish we knew more about Sam's life and what she was doing in the time leading up to her abduction.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-watch-torture-dismember-Carina-Saunders.html

 

[KrazyKatLadi]

I found a case tonight that made me think of Samantha's. Hoping nothing like this has happened to her, but it was hard not to let my imagination draw a parallel. I wish we knew more about Sam's life and what she was doing in the time leading up to her abduction.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-watch-torture-dismember-Carina-Saunders.html

This happened not too far from me. Terrifying stuff! Sounds like a horror movie.

I think she was taken for trafficking. That post by her dad about knowing she had been hurt but wanted her back fixable and something about being passed along to others gives me this feeling. I hope I'm wrong.

 

[Joe Friday]

Joe, I wondered why that business had those pictures of the Common Ground girls on there, dressed like that, especially given the circumstances.

I confess, I just don't get the whole Coffee Shack thing. It seems pretty unwise to me.

What was wrong with the way the women that were working at Common Grounds were dress? Most of the pictures show women dressed no different than the way you would see women dressed to work at any other retail establishment that does not have uniforms for their employees to wear.

Some pictures were fun or seasonal pictures where the women dressed up in costume for Halloween, Christmas or some other holiday like St. Patrick's day. I didn't think any of the pictures were distasteful or sleazy.

What I meant by cleaning up fb was pictures had been deleted, not cleaning up bad pictures. Some of the current or past employees of Common Grounds might have asked to have the pictures deleted that showed themselves on fb also regardless of what they were wearing since Sam was abducted also. Just as a safety measure for their own sake..


I don't think the reason Sam was abducted has anything to do with the pictures on fb. I didn't see any pictures posted on fb of Sam while she was working at the Common Grounds before her abduction. She was supposedly only working there about a month.

JMO

 

[Joe Friday]

I seriously doubt that the perp learned that the Common Grounds had video surveillance or where the camera's were located inside or outside of the Common Grounds building from looking on fb. These camera's are not hidden and anyone that would have driven by the stand would have realized the establishment had video surveillance whether they were planning something evil or not. But that is JMO.

IMO I don't think the perp actually tampered with or covered the camera's in someway to keep his image from being captured on the surveillance system either. I think that he wore clothing such as the hoody and possibly a mask that kept him from being identified by what the camera's captured, just as many bank robbers wear masks because they know banks have surveillance cameras. Seeing a man wearing a mask could have been what triggered Sam's reaction as the perp approached as seen on the video as described by LE. If the perp was wearing a mask it might explain why Parker, LE's spokesperson said that the face of the suspect is not that discernable.

“Whoever this is took very obvious and deliberate measures to avoid being captured on video, I can absolutely confirm that, and I do not believe the police have anything hugely substantial to go on.”

“Obviously the face of the suspect is not that discernable in those videos and that would be a wonderful thing if we had a photograph of the suspect but we obviously don't have that at this time,” said Parker.

http://www.ktva.com/home/outbound-x...ease-Video-of-Koenig-Abduction-138943419.html

Knowing now where the camera's are located on the outside of the building as shown on MSM photo's and video's I know these camera's are in plain view of anyone that drove past the coffee hut and I can determine that the perp also likely thought or knew the coffee shack had a working surveillance system and this is why he likely took measures to not show his face or park a vehicle where the camera's would have captured video of his face or vehicle.

Surveillance systems are usually installed more as a deterrent to stop crime than they are in the hopes of capturing a crime in progress. IMO surveillance camera's are purposely placed in the view of the public to alert them of the fact that the business has a surveillance system. Many camera's you might see at a business are nothing more than a dummy camera installed in the hopes a would be criminal will be deterred from committing a crime thinking a camera will capture their actions. This practice is a cheaper alternative to installing a functioning surveillance system but just as effective to abate crime. Personally I think the more people that know a business has a surveillance system the less likely that business is going to be targeted for a potential crime. For this reason I don't think it is bad to mention that a business has camera's or other surveillance systems, but that is JMO.

 

[Jersey*Girl]

I seriously doubt that the perp learned that the Common Grounds had video surveillance or where the camera's were located inside or outside of the Common Grounds building from looking on fb. These camera's are not hidden and anyone that would have driven by the stand would have realized the establishment had video surveillance whether they were planning something evil or not. But that is JMO.

IMO I don't think the perp actually tampered with or covered the camera's in someway to keep his image from being captured on the surveillance system either. I think that he wore clothing such as the hoody and possibly a mask that kept him from being identified by what the camera's captured, just as many bank robbers wear masks because they know banks have surveillance cameras. Seeing a man wearing a mask could have been what triggered Sam's reaction as the perp approached as seen on the video as described by LE. If the perp was wearing a mask it might explain why Parker, LE's spokesperson said that the face of the suspect is not that discernable.



Knowing now where the camera's are located on the outside of the building as shown on MSM photo's and video's I know these camera's are in plain view of anyone that drove past the coffee hut and I can determine that the perp also likely thought or knew the coffee shack had a working surveillance system and this is why he likely took measures to not show his face or park a vehicle where the camera's would have captured video of his face or vehicle.

Surveillance systems are usually installed more as a deterrent to stop crime than they are in the hopes of capturing a crime in progress. IMO surveillance camera's are purposely placed in the view of the public to alert them of the fact that the business has a surveillance system. Many camera's you might see at a business are nothing more than a dummy camera installed in the hopes a would be criminal will be deterred from committing a crime thinking a camera will capture their actions. This practice is a cheaper alternative to installing a functioning surveillance system but just as effective to abate crime. Personally I think the more people that know a business has a surveillance system the less likely that business is going to be targeted for a potential crime. For this reason I don't think it is bad to mention that a business has camera's or other surveillance systems, but that is JMO.

You know your stuff Joe Friday! Don't forget to add that all states have a video policy, certain laws to abide from. In a majority of states, you cannot record somebody without posting somewhere that there is video surveillance. The fact that Common Grounds has pictures on their site of the placement of the cameras doesn't put their employees at risk IMO bc either way they are in plain view. From what I understand there is even one in the outside right above the door, as well as by the windows. So, by removing them from FB (if that's what they're doing) isn't making it less easy for a potential criminal to scope them out. The cameras are in plain view. Literally, as they should be.

I wonder what the law is in Alaska that pertains to video surveillance. I live in NJ & you can't even record being harassed on your own personal telephone without letting the person on the other end know they are being recorded. There are also different laws with personal property as compared to a business, even more laws compared to the public.

In every mall in America there is security. Go into a dressing room. Does anybody see cameras? No. What do you see? You see a sign right by the mirror that says shoplifting is a crime & you are being monitored by hidden surveillance. There it is, plain view, advertised & predictable.