AL - Karen Shahan, 53, murdered, Homewood, 23 July 2013 #1

[pastorpk]

So it sounds like the gay talk is just rumor. Let's drop it for now. If something comes out in the media, we can revisit the issue.

Salem

Thank you!

 

[enzeder]

After listening to the press conference it appears to me that although LE was aware of the fact that RS was making plans to leave the country I don't believe that he had permission from LE to do that at all. A female reporter asked Chief Roberson "did you know about that?" and he replied "We look at social media too - it wasn't news to us when you publicized that"....

Press Conference
Video: http://www.myfoxal.com/story/243504...art=true&topVideoCatNo=default&clipId=9690949

 

[enzeder]

Alabama pastor arrested in Nashville for wife's murder

Jan 03, 2014

Reported By Joseph Pleasant, Reporter

Reporter in video at below link said: "Shortly after Karen's murder the First Baptist Church of Birmingham placed Shahan on administrative leave and then later fired him as the Facilities Director and Pastor for Children and Family".

Article/Video: http://www.wkrn.com/story/24347730/alabama-pastor-arrested-in-nashville

 

[enzeder]

THURSDAY, JANUARY 2, 2014

The former pastor, who had been placed on paid administrative leave by the First Baptist Church immediately after the killing, has now been fired and collared New Year’s Day by Homeland Security agents as he tried to board a Frankfurt, Germany-bound flight in Nashville.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/cri...der-boarding-flight-germany-article-1.1564920

 

[enzeder]

I seem to recall - early on - reading about financial issues in the past. Does anyone remember the details? Have to go back....

Some info here regarding financial issues...

Excerpt:

August 08, 2013

Bankruptcy filing

Richard L. Shahan and Karen L. Shahan filed a voluntary petition for Chapter 7 bankruptcy in U.S. Bankruptcy Court for the Northern District of Alabama on Feb. 5, 2010.

The couple listed $443,350 in assets and $505,565 in liabilities, according to the bankruptcy court record.

The assets included a house in Franklin, Tenn., valued at $415,000. The other $28,350 was personal property including: cash in checking accounts, $5,000 in an IRA, clothing, furniture, a riding lawnmower, interests in North American whole life insurance policies and State Farm term policy valued together at $700, a 2003 Mazda MX-3 co-signed with son, a 2002 GMC Jimmy owned jointly with Richard Shahan's mother, and mineral rights on land owned jointly with his mother.

The couple listed $388,649 in debt held by creditors holding secured claims, including two mortgages on the Franklin, Tenn., house totaling more than $379,000, and the remainder with a bank for the 2003 Mazda MX-3 car.

The couple listed also listed $116,916 in unsecured debt, most of it credit cards either jointly in their names or in Richard Shahan's name. The couple also listed $5,874 in monthly income, including a $2,516 housing allowance.

http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2013/08/the_rev_richard_shahan_jailed.html

 

[Tugela]

IMO, these above words spoken directly from the mouth of Chief Roberson really, really for me, personally, are very very solid and are directly to the point on they're having arrested the one and only person solely responsible for the extremely brutal slaughter of the victim, Karen Shahan.

I, personally have no doubt that we will see it come to fruition, just as the chief says, once the trial commences..we all will be able to clearly and easily discern what the evidence proves regarding they're indeed having arrested/charged the one person that's fully responsible for Karen's murder, along wth us being able to easily see and discern what the evidence proves was this perpetrator's motive for cruelly taking Karen's life from her, and her from the lives of all the many who love her.

Jmo, but the words directly from the chief's mouth hold much weight..but again that's jmo, tho!

Well, he has to say something.

If he said that he had the guy arrested without having any evidence, then he would be in a whole heap of trouble himself.

So, he says vague things instead.

We will need to wait until they have the first evidentiary hearing to see if there really is probable cause. The ball on that count is rolling now, so if they didn't have enough evidence before, they probably don't now either. It will be interesting to see what happens.

 

[Tugela]

THURSDAY, JANUARY 2, 2014



Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/cri...der-boarding-flight-germany-article-1.1564920

That report does not appear to be particularly accurate. They appear to be paraphrasing other reports and getting the facts messed up.

For example, the church statement says he resigned, he was not fired. You would think that they would know better than a tabloid in another city.

Also, I don't think he was fleeing as such. This trip was clearly planned for some time, and it is not as though he was keeping it secret if LE were already aware of it.

 

[enzeder]

Time Line - Media-Reference Forum

AL - Pastor, Richard Shahan, ARRESTED for Brutal slaying of wife Karen Shahan - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

 

[Tugela]

The next event will be the extradition hearing on the 7th. At that time, if he contests it, LE will have to show probable cause.

 

[txsvicki]

Did the DA approve the arrest before the warrant was issued? I thought once an arrest was made, that's it, on to trial. Am I mistaken?

 

[TravelingBug]

IIRC this newsletter is from May 2012.. I linked to this same PDF newsletter much earlier in the case and even posted the direct quotes from it regarding Richards mission trip.. again IIRC this particular newsletter is from MAY 2012.

I can't get it open though I do remember reading it earlier...but don't have it memorized.

I wouldn't be shocked at all if he was going back and it said that. Most churches DO continue to send mission teams to places they've been before because they form partnerships.

Did it say the length of the trip they said he'd take the next time? (Like I said I can't open it to see)

BUT, I'd be shocked if he was planning a THREE YEAR mission trip overseas (over 18 months ago now) back that May of 2012 because we have had nothing say that THEY were planning to move there.

Having been on staff at multiple churches, an upper level ministry related degree in addition to my other degrees, and having worked with missions organizations in many capacities as well as spending time living overseas, I do not know ONE organization or church that would allow a married individual to go overseas for an extended term like that.

It. Does. Not. Happen.

In fact, most missions organizations won't even let their full-time missionaries not even been in a different country from their spouses (or regional areas/cities, in many cases) for more than a certain number of weeks unless there are extenuating circumstances.

I do not believe there are any (at least above board) churches or missions organizations who would let them be on separate continents for any real length of time, let alone years.

I'll not go into all the reasons unless someone's interested, but either that article is referring to a short-term trip again (which I believe is what it's referencing) or else I believe we'd have been hearing how he was still carrying on with their life plans to move overseas to serve there together or what not.

We've had nothing of that - that I've seen at least. I've not heard or seen anything about her planning to go with him and this whole big move from prior to all of this.

So while he may well have been planning on returning (which, like I said, is very common - even doing teams VERY regularly) this fall before his wife was killed, I DO NOT think this was planned 3 year mission term for them. And, therefore, I do not believe HE was planning to move there for 3 years prior to this.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

Some info here regarding financial issues...

Excerpt:

Oh yeah, imo.......follow the money

 

[killarney rose]

August 08, 2013

Bankruptcy filing

Richard L. Shahan and Karen L. Shahan filed a voluntary petition for Chapter 7 bankruptcy in U.S. Bankruptcy Court for the Northern District of Alabama on Feb. 5, 2010.

The couple listed $443,350 in assets and $505,565 in liabilities, according to the bankruptcy court record.

The assets included a house in Franklin, Tenn., valued at $415,000. The other $28,350 was personal property including: cash in checking accounts, $5,000 in an IRA, clothing, furniture, a riding lawnmower, interests in North American whole life insurance policies and State Farm term policy valued together at $700, a 2003 Mazda MX-3 co-signed with son, a 2002 GMC Jimmy owned jointly with Richard Shahan's mother, and mineral rights on land owned jointly with his mother.

The couple listed $388,649 in debt held by creditors holding secured claims, including two mortgages on the Franklin, Tenn., house totaling more than $379,000, and the remainder with a bank for the 2003 Mazda MX-3 car.

The couple listed also listed $116,916 in unsecured debt, most of it credit cards either jointly in their names or in Richard Shahan's name. The couple also listed $5,874 in monthly income, including a $2,516 housing allowance.

http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2013/08/the_rev_richard_shahan_jailed.html


I hope that I am doing this quote properly.


It will be very interesting IMHO, to see how the money aspect plays out in court.

As far as RS returning to the Nashville area , its easy to see from this article that he had ties to the area(Franklin) before moving to B'ham. So its logical he would go back there. I see nothing suspect about that.

However..........


I am very interested in how the financial aspect will be revealed in court. How did a minister misuse his finances in such a way that he had to file bankruptcy? What was the unsecured debt ? Was there a particular type of purchases, or just mismanagement of money as a whole? Was Karen involved?

Then throw in the other rumors.......it all adds up again,MOO.


I'm just speculating, not saying it is true but from other cases, most of us know, where there is smoke, there is usually fire.....

My fingers are speculating, if they are violating anything....I get that this may go poof....not sure if I'm crossing a line here.

 

[LambChop]

August 08, 2013

Bankruptcy filing

Richard L. Shahan and Karen L. Shahan filed a voluntary petition for Chapter 7 bankruptcy in U.S. Bankruptcy Court for the Northern District of Alabama on Feb. 5, 2010.

The couple listed $443,350 in assets and $505,565 in liabilities, according to the bankruptcy court record.

The assets included a house in Franklin, Tenn., valued at $415,000. The other $28,350 was personal property including: cash in checking accounts, $5,000 in an IRA, clothing, furniture, a riding lawnmower, interests in North American whole life insurance policies and State Farm term policy valued together at $700, a 2003 Mazda MX-3 co-signed with son, a 2002 GMC Jimmy owned jointly with Richard Shahan's mother, and mineral rights on land owned jointly with his mother.

The couple listed $388,649 in debt held by creditors holding secured claims, including two mortgages on the Franklin, Tenn., house totaling more than $379,000, and the remainder with a bank for the 2003 Mazda MX-3 car.

The couple listed also listed $116,916 in unsecured debt, most of it credit cards either jointly in their names or in Richard Shahan's name. The couple also listed $5,874 in monthly income, including a $2,516 housing allowance.

http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2013/08/...an_jailed.html

I hope that I am doing this quote properly.


It will be very interesting IMHO, to see how the money aspect plays out in court.

As far as RS returning to the Nashville area , its easy to see from this article that he had ties to the area(Franklin) before moving to B'ham. So its logical he would go back there. I see nothing suspect about that.

However..........


I am very interested in how the financial aspect will be revealed in court. How did a minister misuse his finances in such a way that he had to file bankruptcy? What was the unsecured debt ? Was there a particular type of purchases, or just mismanagement of money as a whole? Was Karen involved?

Then throw in the other rumors.......it all adds up again,MOO.


I'm just speculating, not saying it is true but from other cases, most of us know, where there is smoke, there is usually fire.....

My fingers are speculating, if they are violating anything....I get that this may go poof....not sure if I'm crossing a line here.

Most of the debt appears to be from their home. Obviously they couldn't sell their home in TN when they transferred to AL. I don't find that unusual since many people lost their homes during this time period. jmo

 

[LambChop]

I would imagine RS was going to spend 3 years overseas because he was no longer married and may have felt by the time he returned this case would be resolved. It does not appear he ever planned to be there 3 years. jmo

 

[killarney rose]

I understand being upside down in a mortgage these days, that has happened to a lot of people. But having over a hundred thousand in unsecured debt? Meaning most likely credit cards? To me, that is a lot of money! And it speaks to me, again, this is just MOO, poor money management. I only have a tenth of that, and my goal is to pay it off ASAP, so you can kind of understand why I think $100,000 seems like an awful lot.

 

[LambChop]

I understand being upside down in a mortgage these days, that has happened to a lot of people. But having over a hundred thousand in unsecured debt? Meaning most likely credit cards? To me, that is a lot of money! And it speaks to me, again, this is just MOO, poor money management. I only have a tenth of that, and my goal is to pay it off ASAP, so you can kind of understand why I think $100,000 seems like an awful lot.

Car loan/lease, couple of credit cards not so difficult these days. It's not always mismanagement. Sometimes it's downsizing and you are out of a job with no way to pay your bills. For many Americans it's a matter of no problems one day and scratching to find a way to pay their bills the next. It hasn't been easy for many people since 2008. That's six years and I know of people who are still struggling with part-time jobs because they can't get full employment. You have to have the money to manage it. And this could have been a possibility for them. So at some point they had no problem getting that credit and apparently something went wrong. To me it appears the house was the main issue. He secured a job in AL and their home would not sell. They may have used their cards to pay on payments until the home sold thinking they could get their money back. jmo

 

[killarney rose]

That's true, Lamb Chop. Its just very frightening to me, to comprehend that much debt. I know many, if not most people don't think anything of it, but scarry to me nonetheless.

 

[txsvicki]

two mortgages would scare me.

 

[LambChop]

two mortgages would scare me.

What is scary is that the bank approved it. And we know the banks were doing it.

I'm not sure what claiming bankruptcy would have to do with the crime and why it would be an issue or a potential motive if they had already been resolved. Not sure why someone would think that.