AL - Karen Shahan, 53, murdered, Homewood, 23 July 2013 #2

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  • #101
SouthAussie said:
I believe that purchasing an airline ticket does not necessarily mean a person will actually get on the flight, and that is why they waited till Shahan had checked in before he was detained.



http://www.abpnews.com/ministry/peo...nister-arrested-in-wife-s-murder#.UtRQlfQW0eg
Click to expand...

In extenuating circumstances I could see one miss the plane - such as if he had been heading to Europe when all this initially broke and then had to stay home.

With as much as many airlines charge nowadays to change tickets, why would one go into intending to, perhaps not even get on the flight? I mean, he was on a pastor's salary. Most don't have thousands of dollars laying around in the next room.

But otherwise why would one even buy a plane ticket they had no intention of using? To support the airline industry? Because they had money to spare?
 
  • #102
TravelingBug said:
In extenuating circumstances I could see one miss the plane - such as if he had been heading to Europe when all this initially broke and then had to stay home.

With as much as many airlines charge nowadays to change tickets, why would one go into intending to, perhaps not even get on the flight? I mean, he was on a pastor's salary. Most don't have thousands of dollars laying around in the next room.

But otherwise why would one even buy a plane ticket they had no intention of using? To support the airline industry? Because they had money to spare?
Click to expand...

I do not believe Shahan was using money from his own salary to fund the trip...

wasn't there some type of fund raising requested through his church...?

I know there were donations requested to fund children's' ministries in lieu of flowers in Karen's obituary... (This is just as an example... I would have to look back at the church newsletters for other examples)...

Additionally... Some people are a bit more "free" with spending moneys that do not come out of their own pockets...

Politicians come to mind... And some pastors I have witnessed have run their finances much as politicians do...

JMO
 
  • #103
The obituary was a family matter and as such should be considered as something we should not be sleuthing because we do not know who made the funeral arrangements. So unless the funeral director comes forward or LE makes a statement that RS wrote the obituary no further discussion is necessary regarding how the funeral arrangements were made by the family.

Other things to consider might be what exactly do we think LE might have for evidence. They report the weapon was unknown. We know there was a broken window. Was the home in disarray as if someone were searching or was there nothing disturbed? What time did RS leave for his trip? What could have been the motive for such a violent crime? There is not much information from LE but there has to be a lot of speculation regarding what happened to Karen. We know she was stabbed with an unknown weapon.
 
  • #104
TravelingBug said:
In extenuating circumstances I could see one miss the plane - such as if he had been heading to Europe when all this initially broke and then had to stay home.

With as much as many airlines charge nowadays to change tickets, why would one go into intending to, perhaps not even get on the flight? I mean, he was on a pastor's salary. Most don't have thousands of dollars laying around in the next room.

But otherwise why would one even buy a plane ticket they had no intention of using? To support the airline industry? Because they had money to spare?
Click to expand...

I was trying to say that perhaps they could not arrest Shahan as "fleeing from justice" until it was seen as definite that he was actually boarding a flight and leaving. Maybe some law/guideline says that they need to wait till he has checked in, due to potential (if unlikely) changes of plans, if they are detaining him for fleeing from justice.

There seems to be two Affidavits. One by the state of Tennessee describing Shahan as a “Fugitive from Justice – Without Warrant”. The article it comes from says it is an arrest affidavit.

Affidavit: http://wbma.images.worldnow.com/images/24346354_BG1.JPG
MSM: http://www.abpnews.com/ministry/peo...nister-arrested-in-wife-s-murder#.UtWKzvQW0eg

And, of course, the Affidavit/Warrant (as it is called) from the state of Alabama for Karen's murder.

Warrant: http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/wbma/misc/shahan-warrant.pdf
MSM: http://www.abc3340.com/story/24417812/richard-shahan


I agree with a previous poster who said that it is possible that they couldn't find Shahan (or didn't know he was gone) till the airport alert came up. Otherwise they could have just used the murder warrant to arrest him when they were ready to arrest him.
 
  • #105
Legal analyst Dan Abrams said a key question is whether Jan. 1 was always his planned date for departure ……. “The question is, was he going to be taking this trip on Jan. 1 and then the authorities issued an arrest warrant on Dec. 31? Or was it the opposite: that authorities issued the arrest warrant on Dec. 31 and then lo and behold it’s Jan. 1 and he says, ‘I’ve got to get out of here.’
Click to expand...

(The analyst also acknowledges that it was publicised in November that Shahan had plans to leave .. just no departure date had ever been mentioned. He also acknowledges that Shahan says he didn't know about the warrant.)

http://www.abpnews.com/ministry/peo...ed-with-murder-on-way-to-alabama#.UtWTZfQW0eg
 
  • #106
SouthAussie said:
My point was that perhaps they could not arrest Shahan as "fleeing from justice" until it was seen as definite that he was actually boarding a flight and leaving.

There seems to be two Affidavits. One by the state of Tennessee describing Shahan as a “Fugitive from Justice – Without Warrant”. The article it comes from says it is an arrest affidavit.

Affidavit: http://wbma.images.worldnow.com/images/24346354_BG1.JPG
MSM: http://www.abpnews.com/ministry/peo...nister-arrested-in-wife-s-murder#.UtWKzvQW0eg

And, of course, the Affidavit/Warrant (as it is called) from the state of Alabama for Karen's murder.

Warrant: http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/wbma/misc/shahan-warrant.pdf
MSM: http://www.abc3340.com/story/24417812/richard-shahan


I agree with a previous poster who said that it is possible that they couldn't find Shahan (or didn't know he was gone) till the airport alert came up. Otherwise they could have just used the murder warrant to arrest him when they were ready.
Click to expand...

They had to have known where RS was because they admitted they were tracking him. If they had gone to arrest him at his home church personnel would have told them where to find him. RS was obviously not hiding. So I don't believe there was a question of not knowing where he was. I don't know how they could not have known.

Also suspect is the warrant on 12/31 versus RS leaving on the 1st. Truly it could be as simple as this was the only way to get a warrant signed for his arrest. LE does what they have to do and I understand them not wanting him to leave and also not wanting to tell him he is a suspect until they received more information. It sounds as if RS pushed everything forward a little with his plans to leave for Germany. If nothing else we should be getting some information soon about what evidence they may have and hopefully what LE feels was a motive. JMO
 
  • #107
Yeah .. I don’t know ... maybe he gave LE the slip. All I know is that it seems odd to me that Shahan’s intended visit to Kazakhstan this fall (May 2013 fbc newsletter) was then stated to be a 3-year mission after his arrest (at least, I can’t find any MSM or church news stating that it would be for 3 years before his arrest).

Then things suddenly got rushed and came to a head when Shahan tried to leave. Leads me to believe that LE did not know that 1st Jan was the departure date, and may have even thought he was planning on leaving at a later departure date, and so were perhaps caught with their pants down. Good thing they had that alert on (in time).
 
  • #108
"Following the death of his wife, Shahan expressed an interested in completing a three-year mission trip to Germany through Bible Mission International. He said, he believed his wife would have wanted him to continue his ministry.

However, because of the open investigation into his wife's death, detectives told him to stay put.

The police department in Homewood issued a warrant for his arrest on the murder charge on December 31."

http://www.wkrn.com/story/24347730/alabama-pastor-arrested-in-nashville
once more the link :smile:
 
  • #109
Thanks FromGermany. :seeya:

Some articles say that the December fbc newsletter (which I can’t find online) and prayer cards announced he was going for 3 years and were trying to raise funds for that. The church says he announced it in November. So I’ve been looking for that announcement.

Other than that, it is just stated in media after the arrest, as having been announced before the arrest (if that makes sense!) I guess I'll just have to take their word for it. :)
 
  • #110
SouthAussie said:
Thanks FromGermany. :seeya:

Some articles say that the December fbc newsletter (which I can’t find online) and prayer cards announced he was going for 3 years and were trying to raise funds for that. The church says he announced it in November. So I’ve been looking for that announcement.

Other than that, it is just stated in media after the arrest, as having been announced before the arrest (if that makes sense!) I guess I'll just have to take their word for it. :)
Click to expand...

It was in the paper (ABC News) on December 13th. But I could not find anything on the church newsletter.

http://www.abc3340.com/story/24218516/minister-questioned-in-wifes-death-plans-move-to-germany
 
  • #111
  • #112
PatEl said:
What struck me as odd was the only mention of the church was the line about in lieu of flowers, donations can be made to the Children's Ministry of the church. No mention that she was a member, that RS was a minister, not even described as a "loving mother" to her children and grandchildren. If the church members were so very involved in assisting RS around the time of the murder like cleaning the house and paying for the funeral, why wouldn't someone have taken on the task of writing a better obit?
Click to expand...

I think the obit was written by the funeral home.. ( I know that's what happened with my parents... two different funeral homes .. two VERY different styles of obit .. Dad's was FULL of info - Mom's read alot like Karen's.. )

PLUS - Karen was just murdered .. may be that when making arrangements the funeral home didn't WANT to ask too many questions .. hard to say how many obits they do for a murder ..
 
  • #113
  • #114
SouthAussie said:
Thank you :)

Odd that .. can find other fbc newsletters, even the January 2014 one. But the December one does not appear to be available to the public online.

http://fbcbirmingham.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/January-Newsletter.pdf
Click to expand...

SouthAussie I found the December newsletter, it sure looks a lot different though. I just noticed they changed formats on their newletters from 2013 to 2014. I also noted the RS is not listed on the staff in the December 2013 newsletter.

http://fbcbirmingham.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/WEBSITE-DECEMBER-2013-NL.pdf
 
  • #115
Just speculating, but wondering if LE found staging at the murder scene with the broken window, Karen's clothing, house in disarray to look like a robbery, etc.
 
  • #116
txsvicki said:
Just speculating, but wondering if LE found staging at the murder scene with the broken window, Karen's clothing, house in disarray to look like a robbery, etc.
Click to expand...


It was also thoughtful of the murderer to wait until VBS was over to murder KS. jmo
 
  • #117
Jewels53 said:
SouthAussie I found the December newsletter, it sure looks a lot different though. I just noticed they changed formats on their newletters from 2013 to 2014. I also noted the RS is not listed on the staff in the December 2013 newsletter.

http://fbcbirmingham.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/WEBSITE-DECEMBER-2013-NL.pdf
Click to expand...

Hmmm ... I also can't see an announcement about him going on a 3-year mission.

Not sure if anyone knows, but are there other newsletters in December that they would have been talking about?


In December, several newsletters and prayer cards indicated that Shahan was planning a three-year mission trip with Bible Mission International in Frankfurt.
Click to expand...

http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2014/01/homewood_pastor_richard_shahan_2.html
 
  • #118
  • #119
  • #120
BBM (see FBC post below regarding RS announcing his plans)

According to a statement posted on the Facebook page for the First Church of Birmingham, Shahan stepped down from the church on December 31. According to the post, Shahan's flight to Germany was part of a planned trip to work abroad at a religious organization primarily in Kazakhstan.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/baptist-preacher-arrested-wifes-murder/story?id=21425668
Click to expand...

First Baptist Church of Birmingham
https://www.facebook.com/firstbaptistbirmingham/posts/10152197220726518?stream_ref=10
 
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