AL - Karen Shahan, 53, murdered, Homewood, 23 July 2013 #2

[txsvicki]

Now just really speculating, but I also wonder if he didn't want his elderly mother to find out, and maybe upset her or disinherit him if she has money.

 

[Sulamith]

Good question. When were they together? Here, there or elsewhere?

Did the other guy suddenly take a trip right before RS tried to leave? Anyone from his circle of friends recently skip town? Did they have a faux platonic friendship to hide the affair, a working relationship, an online thing or what?

It might not be a bad idea to check on the other dude's family in case anyone is missing or unexpectedly dead. Couples have traded murders before....MOO

Think about it. You are the other guy, RS's wife is horrifically murdered and now you are still planning a marriage? Does other guy think her murder was just fortunate coincidence?


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I would bet the alleged other guy had no clue that RS was married and probably has not heard that KS was murdered.

RS probably met the guy in Germany. I would guess the guy is 25-30 years old. Maybe a hustler, rent boy. I do know that Germany is not so puritanical like the US is.

I lived in Germany for a year because my husband was stationed there when he was in the US Army. Talk about an eye opening experience! What might be verboten here is not in a lot of places in Germany. I loved it there!

I wonder what LE agency might be investigating the alleged other guy?

 

[DTLJ]

So, these allegations now prove that he did it? And he is no longer just accused but now automatically guilty?

I agree it looks that way. I'm bothered though by the jumping to conclusions and apparent giddiness of some to the news. And the title of the "Breaking News" post. It's a sad story, if true. And it makes my stomach hurt.

And no, he would not have to leave the SBC church if he is a homosexual. At least most, remember SBC churches are autonomous so I guess it is a possibility he could be asked to leave that church. He probably would not be able to hold a position of leadership and I'm 99.99% certain the BMI would not support him. Again, I do not want to speak in absolutes because of the autonomy.

Yes, you are right that all Southern Baptist Churches are "autonomous" - that individually, they will vote alone as a group and they will organize and create their own by-laws...however, the SBC, of which RS is associated with (and I am too) is also under the Baptist Faith and Message that was re-amended back in 2000.
Here is a current copy of the Baptist Faith and Message (a comparison to prior Baptist Faith and Message). Our interest is located on the right side of this page, scrolling down to "XV The Christian and the Social Order"

http://www.sbc.net/bfm/bfmcomparison.asp

 

[DTLJ]

Plus there is a big difference between a man wanting to leave a marriage and a woman wanting to leave. His income was much more than Karen's. If she objected all he had to do was leave which it appears he was already planning on doing. Generally for a woman it's a lot more complicated to leave when you have no money to relocate or no where to go. There has to be more. So what is next? Does the judge get a look at what they have and then turn it over to a grand jury?

I think his movement in the last 6 months was very evident of making himself look squeaky clean, a total non-admission to the murder, an "alibi", and being the wonderful, pastor, missionary who was going off to a mission internationally to teach children. He had an absolute "curtain" to cover up his dual life. His hand in the murder was more than likely to keep his "pastor" badge so that he, as a pastor, would not have to endure the embarassment or the stigma of going through a divorce. I've been there with my own ex (with three mistresses all at the same time, and he brought one of his mistresses in the pulpit).

How did I survive him not killing me? I'm not sure, but at one point in time, I truly believe that he was going to strangle me and call it an "accident". Only by the grace of God, and "people" (I call them angels) showing up in mass at the time...because he thought we would be completely alone...on a mountain in November.

These men are masters in deception, and will stop at nothing to glory themselves in impeccable, squeaky-clean lives, so that they can keep the status of their pastoral lives. Otherwise, had he divorced his wife, why then, he would not be the "pastor" everyone thought he was, and he would have that hovering over him...he failed miserably, when he thought in his mind that he could kill her, and then continue to prepare for his mission trip, and deny that he killed her. It is the 'stigma of "divorce" and the stigma of homosexuality that forced him to cover up his real life...his intended life. It is a fear of falling from grace that he feared most by the people who looked up to him...and so, he chose to lead a totally deceptive life. He thought he had gotten away with everything...until his arrest. That's why he was so "surprised" when he was arrested. His deception had caught up with him.

Just my "take" on this revelation...
DTLJ

 

[BamaGrl1]

But if his plan was to live openly with a partner why would it matter if Karen found out. He would still have gone on with his plans because he had no intention of keeping it a secret. So I don't see that as a strong motive to kill someone. If he wanted to go she certainly could not have stopped him. If anything the murder slowed down his plans because he was due to leave in the fall.



I see a couple of things that a defense attorney would have a field day during a trial because they don't make any sense. Plus who plans to murder someone and then puts their plans to move to another country in emails, publicizes the fact that he is leaving the country for 3 years? There are still a lot of questions that we do not have answers for. jmo

My guess would be he planned on keeping it a secret for a while. He could not have done his "mission work" and continued to gather donations from conservative southern baptist church members from Alabama if it became public knowledge he planned to leave his wife for a man. (I know my college roommate's mother made monthly donations to members of her church that were in other countries on mission trips...so he had the potential to collect money over time.)

Since I believe he had a history of financial issues, he probably wanted to save up enough money to live comfortably in his new life in a new country. And gaining citizenship in a new country can often be complicated and require either a certain level of money or a job...perhaps if she found out and publicized it...it could have ruined his plans. Alternatively, he could have just snapped in a heated argument if she discovered his plan and not intended to kill her initially.

 

[txsvicki]

Would there be a higher bond if police thought it was premeditated?

 

[Sulamith]

Would there be a higher bond if police thought it was premeditated?

Probably would have been a higher bond if LE found marijuana on him when he was arrested. I think that it is up to the DA to charge him with premeditation. I don't think the police have anything to do with anything other than to arrest the man.

 

[Tugela]

http://www.waff.com/story/24475057/...r-intended-to-flee-country-to-marry-boyfriend

"Thursday's hearing covered Shahan's bond, returning personal property and preserving evidence in the case."

"Assistant DA Poston said prosecutors were not planning to discuss Shahan's motive for murder Thursday because they were hoping the bond hearing would have been combined with Shahan's preliminary hearing. But when Judge Watkins forced the issue of whether or not Shahan should be released on bond, prosecutors decided to go ahead and make their claim that Shahan planned to flee the country and marry his boyfriend."
*********************************************************
Since I am no legal expert... I do not know exactly what the second paragraph quoted above means...

But... it sounds like the Assistant DA had enough evidence to hold Shahan as a perpetrator... without having to divulge the emails regarding Shahan's intent to flee and marry his boyfriend...

Yet... when the Judge continued asking... that was when this issue was revealed...

Therefore... I do not think the "boyfriend" aspect is the only evidence the DA feels they have that indicates Shahan murdered Karen...

JMO

If they had compelling evidence they would have revealed it at the bond hearing because it would have strengthened their argument of risk of flight. The reasoning would be that the accused would know the game was up and have every incentive to flee if released on bail.

My guess is that they don't have anything more compelling than suspicion at this point, so they want to hold off revealing what they do know for as long as possible in order to have more time to gather additional evidence.

It will be interesting to see why they consider this to be a motive however. It is not clear what there would to be gained in killing his wife if moving to Europe to be with someone else was his plan. What would be the point? Who is this other individual and where are they now? It seems odd that he would openly discuss plans like that after the fact.

I don't think the wife finding out about it and threatening to reveal all is realistic - in relationships like that the other spouse typically knows more or less what is going on and the only reason they are still around is that they accept it and have a "deal" between themselves. They serve as the "cover story" for each other, and in return they get to go about life as they please. I wonder if they had some sort of deal like that going on, and someone else found out about it and took offence. Or, if the were both doing their own thing under the cover of marriage, Karen may have had a relationship with someone else that ran into problems. A violent attack like that usually implies considerable anger, and it is hard to see how that sort of dynamic could come about with the scenario the prosecutor is proposing. You would have expected the reverse in fact, that Karen would have killed/attacked him, not the other way around.

I would think that there would have to be something more to the story than what we know so far.

 

[AlwaysShocked]

It's the Scott Peterson motive. Out with the old lifestyle and on to what they really want to do. And they don't want the "stigma" of a divorce. So they'll murder their wife and become the grieving widower.

I would think LE has more than just motive. Probably mostly circumstantial, but that didn't keep a jury from convicting Scott Peterson.

 

[Sulamith]

It's the Scott Peterson motive. Out with the old lifestyle and on to what they really want to do. And they don't want the "stigma" of a divorce. So they'll murder their wife and become the grieving widower.

I would think LE has more than just motive. Probably mostly circumstantial, but that didn't keep a jury from convicting Scott Peterson.

You are right..something simple like out with the old and in with the new..Motive right there.

 

[killarney rose]

Simply he didnt want the scandal,or stigma. Or the expense of divorce. Once overseas, he would slip quietly from the old life into the new. He had three years to make it happen.

 

[LambChop]

I don't know about him worrying about a scandal when his emails reflect that he was planning to live openly with this person. Nothing worse than having your wife murdered right before you plan to leave to start your new life, far worse than divorce. There was nothing stopping him from leaving and once he got to Germany his plans were not to return so why would someone risk a murder charge when all he had to do was walk out. This is the part that makes no sense. Obviously he already had plans so how could she have stopped him when his relationship would have been made public once he left.

Usually when someone murders their spouse there is a little more to it than just walking out and starting a new life. People do it every day under a lot of pressure and their spouses do not end up brutally murdered. This case has a lot of challenges to it and it certainly is not just cut and dry. jmo

 

[DTLJ]

If they had compelling evidence they would have revealed it at the bond hearing because it would have strengthened their argument of risk of flight. The reasoning would be that the accused would know the game was up and have every incentive to flee if released on bail.

My guess is that they don't have anything more compelling than suspicion at this point, so they want to hold off revealing what they do know for as long as possible in order to have more time to gather additional evidence.

It will be interesting to see why they consider this to be a motive however. It is not clear what there would to be gained in killing his wife if moving to Europe to be with someone else was his plan. What would be the point? Who is this other individual and where are they now? It seems odd that he would openly discuss plans like that after the fact.

I don't think the wife finding out about it and threatening to reveal all is realistic - in relationships like that the other spouse typically knows more or less what is going on and the only reason they are still around is that they accept it and have a "deal" between themselves. They serve as the "cover story" for each other, and in return they get to go about life as they please. I wonder if they had some sort of deal like that going on, and someone else found out about it and took offence. Or, if the were both doing their own thing under the cover of marriage, Karen may have had a relationship with someone else that ran into problems. A violent attack like that usually implies considerable anger, and it is hard to see how that sort of dynamic could come about with the scenario the prosecutor is proposing. You would have expected the reverse in fact, that Karen would have killed/attacked him, not the other way around.

I would think that there would have to be something more to the story than what we know so far.

Knowing what I know about my own experience, I really don't believe that she actually knew about the "boyfriend". Wives are the last to know about stuff like this, unless one is perceptive in behavior...that's how I found out, because his behavior was out of sorts and his schedule became suspicious. That night or morning, she may have found out, but again...for someone in that position of the SBC, and for him to have been living that kind of alleged life is pure motive to "get rid" of the wife, in order to keep his status and enjoy his new boyfriend. BEING FOUND OUT IS THE GREATEST FEAR OF THE PASTOR. If we have that kind of fear, then one is capable of anything...when I found out, then my ex decided to pin me for mental health issues and rigged up a document of a diagnosis of "bi-polar", decided to go through with a divorce because at the time, he was not in the ministry, but that very tool of defamation has caused me great heartache because he caused my own extended family to abandon me and my children from their activities. My kids were still with me and I believe that's the reason why he spared my life. There were no children in the home with KS and RS.
DTLJ

 

[DTLJ]

I believe that his thoughts were..."No one would ever believe that I murdered my own wife" And this is why he chose murder over divorce. Divorce is just too messy, but murder gives way to mystery and many times, the murders are never solved. Remember too, that the "boyfriend" issue is not evidence enough for convict on a murder charge. All that we know right now is circumstantial, but the pieces are making more sense to me.
DTLJ

 

[AzPistonsGirl]

Probably would have been a higher bond if LE found marijuana on him when he was arrested. I think that it is up to the DA to charge him with premeditation. I don't think the police have anything to do with anything other than to arrest the man.

O/T and BBM. I thanked your post but just couldn't let it go overlooked. You are too funny, but also, right on.

 

[CountryGirl]

Details released about Richard Shahan's electronic monitoring

The order states that Shahan's only 'allowed outings' include doctor appointments, court appearances and attorney appointments.

 

[CountryGirl]

I wonder if he filed the Report of International Transportation of Currency or Monetary Instruments, FinCEN Form 105 for his cash he had with him.

 

[greenthumb]

I don't know about him worrying about a scandal when his emails reflect that he was planning to live openly with this person.

RSBM

I agree with this, IF what he said in his emails to his boyfriend was true.

But, might he have been leading the boyfriend along... playing along with a fantasy about a future that he never really intended to pursue... and then Karen found the emails/found out about the boyfriend? Maybe it was a recent discovery and she confronted him... threatened to expose his secrets to his church, to his children... and maybe divorce him, too. Might explain why he decided to visit his son alone, without Karen... maybe they agreed to take a few days apart to figure stuff out. And maybe what he figured out was that she had to go, because she knew too much. Just a possibility, MOO.

 

[Blondie in Spokane]

Daily Mail:

Pastor, 53, arrested at the airport after 'stabbing his wife to death was heading to Europe to marry his boyfriend'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ife-death-heading-Europe-marry-boyfriend.html

 

[LietKynes]

These are my thoughts only and apologize if they are too graphic :




SMH.... I would imagine that murder by stabbing is very close up and personal , involves some forethought and probably didn't happen all in one second.
I also feel it's not like movies where there is one or two swipes and the person falls down and no longer moves. Possibly this alleged perp hadn't done this before and had to stab over and over.

Not sure how he can live with himself. His former congregation probably had no clue as to what he may have been capable of.
My personal opinion is that he may have planned this for some time ; and was going to leave the U.S. to HIDE.
What a jerk !

MOO

RIP, Karen !