AL - Karen Shahan, 53, murdered, Homewood, 23 July 2013 #2

[ATasteOfHoney]

Because there is as yet no evidence for his guilt.

There has to be a basis for belief, otherwise it is false belief.

IMO, the basis for belief is motive.

The pastor has a motive for getting rid of his wife. The motive is he was leading a "double life" and wanted to leave her (& the country) for another man. Additionally and due to his past financial history, another likely motive is money. These are the classic "two biggies" when it comes to why a murder is committed: a love triangle and money issues/needs.

I think what is being ignored here is the psychological/emotional aspect of what goes on when a person leads another life or a "double life" and how the emotions continue to torment and heat up. It must create havoc for everyone involved and drum up so many intensified emotions. It becomes a heated, crazy world full of angst for everyone involved in the sphere, even if they do not know exactly what is going on--they sense something isn't quite right. The pastors wife may have felt things in her 'gut' about the situation and questioned him constantly about finances and if he still loved her (behind closed doors). We may never know. And I'm sure the pastors sons have had a lot of questions and concerns along the way. Even the lover may have been putting pressure on the pastor to do something about this sad situation? We don't know.
When involved within the sphere of a person leading a double life, I can imagine these suspicions and feelings "speak" loudly and sometimes they must be "whispered" subliminally----what pressure to live with! It could almost cause one to go insane or do something really drastic. And that's my point.

Of course, I'm not trying to invoke empathy for the pastor by this post. I'm just trying to highlight that there is a psychological/emotional aspect that we may want to look at in lieu of just thinking analytically about this case.

All moo.....

 

[LambChop]

Why is there so much doubt about this man's guilt? Why is it so hard to believe?

It could be that the case does not appear to be as strong as the State would like. Seems to be a lot of unknowns but then we don't know any more than what the State has revealed so far. jmo

 

[txsvicki]

He may have been so in love and obsessed with the boyfriend that he'd do anything to get back to Europe with him, if that is where the boyfriend lives. If he did it, it must be about this particular lover and not just the desire to live a gay lifestyle.

 

[TravelingBug]

The judge set his bail. Maybe the judge feels that the bail was appropriate based on the State's case. DA asked for no bail and the judge ruled otherwise. Can't believe if the State had more they wouldn't have presented it to the judge. jmo

He was apparently convinced enough to place bond amount over the bond schedule for murder...

While defendants in capital cases are often held without bond, the bond schedule for murder is between $15,000 and $75,000. Defendants charged with other offenses can be held without bond under certain circumstances, at a judge's discretion.

And since they had said upon his arrest they wanted to wait to reveal more till it's necessary, I suspect there is more coming but the prosecutors don't want to tip their hand.

Plus, they may not mind that he's out. Just as Casey Anthony basically was watched when she was out of jail, and many tried to get her to inadvertently spill something, perhaps that's the case again here?

 

[LambChop]

He was apparently convinced enough to place bond amount over the bond schedule for murder...



And since they had said upon his arrest they wanted to wait to reveal more till it's necessary, I suspect there is more coming but the prosecutors don't want to tip their hand.

Plus, they may not mind that he's out. Just as Casey Anthony basically was watched when she was out of jail, and many tried to get her to inadvertently spill something, perhaps that's the case again here?

I believe at the time CA was out on bail they had not yet found Caylee.

Not sure why the State would hold back evidence when the judge in this state has to determine whether or not there is enough evidence to present to a grand jury. Once the decision is made to go forward with the trial the State would have to turn over all their evidence they plan to use at that point to defense through discovery. It's not as if the State needs to hide their evidence. The plan is he's going to trial and his defense has a right to know what the State has as evidence. jmo

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

IMO, the basis for belief is motive.

The pastor has a motive for getting rid of his wife. The motive is he was leading a "double life" and wanted to leave her (& the country) for another man. Additionally and due to his past financial history, another likely motive is money. These are the classic "two biggies" when it comes to why a murder is committed: a love triangle and money issues/needs.

I think what is being ignored here is the psychological/emotional aspect of what goes on when a person leads another life or a "double life" and how the emotions continue to torment and heat up. It must create havoc for everyone involved and drum up so many intensified emotions. It becomes a heated, crazy world full of angst for everyone involved in the sphere, even if they do not know exactly what is going on--they sense something isn't quite right. The pastors wife may have felt things in her 'gut' about the situation and questioned him constantly about finances and if he still loved her (behind closed doors). We may never know. And I'm sure the pastors sons have had a lot of questions and concerns along the way. Even the lover may have been putting pressure on the pastor to do something about this sad situation? We don't know.
When involved within the sphere of a person leading a double life, I can imagine these suspicions and feelings "speak" loudly and sometimes they must be "whispered" subliminally----what pressure to live with! It could almost cause one to go insane or do something really drastic. And that's my point.

Of course, I'm not trying to invoke empathy for the pastor by this post. I'm just trying to highlight that there is a psychological/emotional aspect that we may want to look at in lieu of just thinking analytically about this case.

All moo.....

Well written, TasteofHoney!

I agree that the psychological turmoil of RS leading a double life... And one that he chose to keep secret as he knew the revelation would adversely affect his standing in the community (he much needs the adulation of his parishioners (IMO) ... Would affect the relationships of all those surrounding him...

the functioning of a family/community is the sum of its parts... If one part is working "out of sync" with the rest of the parts... It disturbs the balance...

Most of us have experienced lesser, yet very real, turmoil in our own homes (an adult loses a job... Death in the family due to illness... Need for caring for an elderly adult)... All these upset the "balance"... And each part must adjust to the new "reality"... Often resulting in anxiety, depression, etc...

now magnify these situations where a family/community member is leading a parallel, secret life... And the other parts must find ways to come to equilibrium, though they may not even know the source of the disconnect...

The emotions/psychological reactions are strong... And the person creating the dis-equilibrium becomes enraged as his/her needs are not met (in his/her perspective)...

this all can lead to an explosive ending... If equilibrium is not restored...

Yes... Psychological aspects are at the root of many/most acts of murder...

All JMO

 

[txsvicki]

If RS snuck back after pretending to be out of town and did this, if he really did it, I don't see any difference between him and Scott Peterson except one planned a disappearance and the other an alledged break/in murder.

 

[LambChop]

If RS snuck back after pretending to be out of town and did this, if he really did it, I don't see any difference between him and Scott Peterson except one planned a disappearance and the other an alledged break/in murder.

And I think it is the brutality of the crime that is at issue here. She wasn't just stabbed. jmo

 

[SCHMAE]

Because there is as yet no evidence for his guilt.

There has to be a basis for belief, otherwise it is false belief.

Do we know what evidence LE has?

 

[killarney rose]

Well written, TasteofHoney!

I agree that the psychological turmoil of RS leading a double life... And one that he chose to keep secret as he knew the revelation would adversely affect his standing in the community (he much needs the adulation of his parishioners (IMO) ... Would affect the relationships of all those surrounding him...

the functioning of a family/community is the sum of its parts... If one part is working "out of sync" with the rest of the parts... It disturbs the balance...

Most of us have experienced lesser, yet very real, turmoil in our own homes (an adult loses a job... Death in the family due to illness... Need for caring for an elderly adult)... All these upset the "balance"... And each part must adjust to the new "reality"... Often resulting in anxiety, depression, etc...

now magnify these situations where a family/community member is leading a parallel, secret life... And the other parts must find ways to come to equilibrium, though they may not even know the source of the disconnect...

The emotions/psychological reactions are strong... And the person creating the dis-equilibrium becomes enraged as his/her needs are not met (in his/her perspective)...

this all can lead to an explosive ending... If equilibrium is not restored...

Yes... Psychological aspects are at the root of many/most acts of murder...

All JMO

I can tell you from personal experience with a family member that this is very true. There is a lot of ego involved. These people are used to having people look up to them. They have an image in their mind that they believe must be maintained . And if something happens they think will affect that , it angers them. I have an immediate family member that I have broken ties with due to his attitude and refusal to accept personal responsibility for his bad behavior and expecting us to put him on a pedestal the way his church members do.

 

[MCDRAW]

I don't know about him worrying about a scandal when his emails reflect that he was planning to live openly with this person. Nothing worse than having your wife murdered right before you plan to leave to start your new life, far worse than divorce. There was nothing stopping him from leaving and once he got to Germany his plans were not to return so why would someone risk a murder charge when all he had to do was walk out. This is the part that makes no sense. Obviously he already had plans so how could she have stopped him when his relationship would have been made public once he left.

Usually when someone murders their spouse there is a little more to it than just walking out and starting a new life. People do it every day under a lot of pressure and their spouses do not end up brutally murdered. This case has a lot of challenges to it and it certainly is not just cut and dry. jmo

Except maybe the church or churches were going to pay him while he was on his mission trip. He expected to have three years to get everything set up. Maybe she found out about it and said she was going to the church. There goes his finances. Besides, I wonder if he ever really planned to go on a mission trip for three years before she was killed? Most churches would expect them both to go on the mission trip for that long amount of time. IMO

 

[animlzrule]

It will not surprise me at all if there is a suicide reported in the not so distant future.

 

[MCDRAW]

I think the obit was written by the funeral home.. ( I know that's what happened with my parents... two different funeral homes .. two VERY different styles of obit .. Dad's was FULL of info - Mom's read alot like Karen's.. )

PLUS - Karen was just murdered .. may be that when making arrangements the funeral home didn't WANT to ask too many questions .. hard to say how many obits they do for a murder ..

You also pay a set fee for a set amount of words after that you pay per word. Or that is what we were told when my brother passed. The funeral home wrote it.

 

[TGIRecovered]

It will not surprise me at all if there is a suicide reported in the not so distant future.

I agree that suicide could be likely if the killer had remorse or was terrified of spending life in prison but I also suspect RS is a different kind of personality.

Take a look at the pic of him when he walked out of jail on bail. Check that swagger. This guy isn't ashamed, embarrassed, remorseful or in fear of the possibility of life in prison. This a just another challenge for a narcissistic evil criminal. He thinks he'll beat the charge and if he doesn't he'll be a rock star in prison with all of the other murderers, killers, perverts and con men.

Poor Karen. I'm sure that life was miserable with RS as a husband.

MOO

 

[CountryGirl]

I wish we knew if Karen planned on going with him on his mission. Maybe that was part of the reason itself--if she insisted on going! I can't imagine her wanting him to go alone for three years.

When the evidence comes out of the content of the 3,000 emails perhaps we will know if that is the case. So far, none of Karen's friends have spoken of her plans in this regard. In fact, other than the one friend's interview--nobody is speaking about Karen. I find this very sad!

 

[Kimster]

I wish we knew if Karen planned on going with him on his mission. Maybe that was part of the reason itself--if she insisted on going! I can't imagine her wanting him to go alone for three years.

When the evidence comes out of the content of the 3,000 emails perhaps we will know if that is the case. So far, none of Karen's friends have spoken of her plans in this regard. In fact, other than the one friend's interview--nobody is speaking about Karen. I find this very sad!

In some cases, the investigators ask them not to speak publicly until after the trial. When I'm verifying insiders, we even ask them to check with the detectives before posting inside information so as not to hurt the investigation. That might not be the case in this situation, but it's something to think about.

 

[CountryGirl]

In some cases, the investigators ask them not to speak publicly until after the trial. When I'm verifying insiders, we even ask them to check with the detectives before posting inside information so as not to hurt the investigation. That might not be the case in this situation, but it's something to think about.

I get that--but it just seems sad that Karen seems to be almost overlooked in this case.

 

[DTLJ]

I wish we knew if Karen planned on going with him on his mission. Maybe that was part of the reason itself--if she insisted on going! I can't imagine her wanting him to go alone for three years.

When the evidence comes out of the content of the 3,000 emails perhaps we will know if that is the case. So far, none of Karen's friends have spoken of her plans in this regard. In fact, other than the one friend's interview--nobody is speaking about Karen. I find this very sad!

Well, we will never really know all the scenarios that we are bringing up, and yes, it is very sad. I think of those who are closest to this drama, and who were totally caught off guard in all of this are the ones who are suffering the most...more than likely, RS's mother and sons, and the people who worked with both of them. But I think that because they are the ones who are grieving the most...then they are also the ones who cannot speak to any of this because it is so out of their range of relevance. They knew the pastor...they had no inkling of the other side of his life, according to what the e-mails are revealing. I believe that they truly do not know what to say or who to say it to. I can't even imagine what is being said in the home of his mother right now. It's got to be a real strain on her in all aspects. She is the one who declared that there was something...not right in the first place. :scared:

 

[i.b.nora]

It seems to me that people are confusing this recent 3 year mission with a mission discussed in the May newsletter when the translator visited FBC and it was stated that Richard Shahan had plans to return to Kazakhstan again in the Fall for what would have been a brief (maybe 3 week) trip like his previous trips.

pastorpk described in a post on the first thread how this 3 year trip came about. It was not to be the same sort of brief mission like the ones he had previously taken. This was to be a total 'change in assignment' or job from First Church of Birmingham to Mission Bible International, Inc. According to pastorpk the assignment was proposed to Shahan by BMI, Inc.

See:
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - AL - Pastor ARRESTED for Brutal slaying of wife Karen Shahan


It doesn't seem probable to me that a 3 year trip was a plan originally engineered by Richard prior to the murder. It seems more likely that a previously planned 3 week trip might have played into his original thinking. Maybe a three week trip he just didn't come back from was part of his original plan on how to escape from Karen, from Alabama, from FBC and from the Baptists.

Its actually impossible to know how he was feeling and what he was thinking based on the scant information we currently possess.

 

[Kimster]

I get that--but it just seems sad that Karen seems to be almost overlooked in this case.

Understood. :tears: The victims are often lost in the shuffle of arrests and media. That's why the mods like to make sure their names are in the subject line of our cases. It's the least we can do!

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