GUILTY AL - Summer Moody, 17, fatally shot in Gravine Island burglary attempt, 15 April 2013

  • #101
The officer testified that Alabama law does not prohibit felons from possessing long guns like shotguns and rifles, but applies only to handguns.

http://blog.al.com/live/2012/05/investigator_larry_duncan_jr_f.html

From the above article:

The shooting was likely on Forever Wild Land, the investigator said. Alabama's Forever Wild Program was established in 1992 to provide for the purchase of public recreational lands for general recreation, nature preserves, additions to Wildlife Management Areas and state parks.

Yeah, so, no grounds for firing in self-defense etc - meaning we are left with pure vigilantism - which last I knew was illegal. This just makes no sense to me - I've never seen such a questionable shooting left out of the hands of the courts (with one recent headline-grabbing exception, not going there).:banghead:

Just to be clear, I'm all for these teen burglars getting the book thrown at them (with the exception of Felony Murder, because IMO there was no reasonable expectation that their activities that particular night in that isolated, depopulated area would lead to any kind of confrontation). Heck, I'm flabbergasted that they were still free at that point, having been caught before...but that doesn't mean that it was right or legal for them to be tracked down & aggressively confronted by gun-toting vigilantes. There is a very good reason why LE aggressively clamps down on such behavior. IMO, the moment the three men pointed a gun at anybody (note - after initiating contact of their own free will), they were setting up a chain of events that made it likely that someone was going to get hurt.

All JMO
 
  • #102
Not that it even matters at this point but the teen burglars story of going alligator hunting and even shooting at an alligator is also against the law as far as I can tell. My fiance hunts alligators in Louisiana and you need a hunting license AND alligator tags which are not just given to anyone. From what I understand, Alabama holds a lottery to see who gets the tags and the hunts are done during alligator season
http://outdooralabama.com/hunting/game/alligatorhunthome/regulation.cfm

So the teens had quite a little crime spree planned that night. Alligator hunting isn't much of an alibi since it is illegal. Illegal guns, poaching, trespassing, breaking and entering, burglary,etc.

I can't find a link to prove any of this but I was interested in learning more about a comment left at this link: http://blog.al.com/live/2012/05/investigator_teen_said_summer/914/comments-4.html

A commentor on page 4 said

"A judge had ordered Moody to stay away from one of the thugs. Her Mother petitioned the court to release that order so they could be together. That alone made me go ,hmm He was also allowed to be my her bedside at the family's request. Had she stayed away from him she would be alive today,she wouldn't have been there."

Why had Summer Moody been ordered to stay away from him? Did she have a previous brush with the law while with him? So her mom knew they shouldn't be together but petitioned the court to let her daughter hang out with him and they requested him at her side when she died? Does anyone know anything about that?

I'd be interested in hearing about the relationships and history between the teens. Apparently there were so prior brushes with the law. I think the boys were dropouts but Summer had graduated (or was going to).

It's really just a sad case all around for all involved. The teens made foolish and illegal choices that led to a tragic death. I don't believe the camp residents had any intent on hurting any of them. I can understand them firing warning shots. They were in a remote area where police can't easily get to.
 
  • #103
My kids have all of these kids as 'friends' on their facebook, they never 'hung' out with them but they did go to school with them. From what I've read on their pages, the boys were ordered to have no contact with Summer or her family after the shooting and they pushed for that to be lifted so Byrd could see Summer in the hospital. There was a petition going around to as a matter of fact. Byrd was able to see Summer the night before she passed. I've not read or have any knowledge of any order for Byrd to stay away before the incident.

I've read some really horrible comments from the friends of the boys and Summer stating that the DA better watch out, karma is a you know what...etc. Now, here is my opinion, the boys and Summer were committing a CRIME, why are they so upset with the DA? They should be upset with the kids for being so stupid.
 
  • #104
  • #105
I can't find a link to prove any of this but I was interested in learning more about a comment left at this link: http://blog.al.com/live/2012/05/investigator_teen_said_summer/914/comments-4.html

A commentor on page 4 said

"A judge had ordered Moody to stay away from one of the thugs. Her Mother petitioned the court to release that order so they could be together. That alone made me go ,hmm He was also allowed to be my her bedside at the family's request. Had she stayed away from him she would be alive today,she wouldn't have been there."

Why had Summer Moody been ordered to stay away from him? Did she have a previous brush with the law while with him? So her mom knew they shouldn't be together but petitioned the court to let her daughter hang out with him and they requested him at her side when she died? Does anyone know anything about that?

I noticed that comment myself and tried to find out anything about it. From what I can tell, Kentuckybound is correct - the three were ordered to stay away from Summer AFTER the incident, while she was in the hospital, but her boyfriend (Byrd) wanted to visit her. I think that commenter misunderstood and thought that the boys and Summer were ordered to stay away from each other BEFORE the incident.
 
  • #106
I noticed that comment myself and tried to find out anything about it. From what I can tell, Kentuckybound is correct - the three were ordered to stay away from Summer AFTER the incident, while she was in the hospital, but her boyfriend (Byrd) wanted to visit her. I think that commenter misunderstood and thought that the boys and Summer were ordered to stay away from each other BEFORE the incident.


OK thanks for clearing that up.
 
  • #107
It just gets better and better....

http://www2.wkrg.com/news/2012/may/...8/?referer=None&shorturl=http://bit.ly/IPVkHs

Loxley police say Scott Byrd and Dylan Tyree stole mail from a US Post Office drop box. Tampering or stealing with mail is a federal offense. Loxley police have turned the case over to the Postal Inspector's Office.

Byrd and Tyree are also accused of breaking into several homes, the Stapleton School and an unnamed business over a three month period. Police say the teenagers stole weapons from the homes, including guns and a bow and arrow.

According to Terry Wilhite, a spokesperson for Baldwin County Schools, Byrd and Tyree broke into the principal's office through a window at the Stapleton School and stole on iPod. Wilhite says they also broke a second window and stole $50-$100 from the cafeteria.



http://blog.al.com/live/2012/05/gravine_island_burglary_suspec.html
Court records show Tyree and Byrd each face an additional first-degree burglary charge and first degree assault charge--with bail denied for each. In addition, Tyree faces 14 other charges including theft of property, burglary, criminal mischief and possession of marijuana and drug paraphernalia. His bail for those charges totals some $53,000.
Byrd faces two burglary and two theft of property charges with bail for those charges set at $22,500.
 
  • #108
  • #109
Wow, so they get charged now, after it's too late? Where were these charges when it could have made a difference?:banghead:

That "cohort" of theirs might have not admitted who beat him up until Summer was killed. Regardless of what these teens were involved in (and I don't have problems with them being charged to the fullest extent of the law) I don't understand why no charges for the man who actually fired the shot. In FL, DA Angela Corey got a woman convicted for firing a "warning shot" into the ceiling (and no one was killed). Supposedly that woman is facing 20 years.
And yet here they are telling us there is nothing whatsoever they can charge this adult male with?
 
  • #110
That "cohort" of theirs might have not admitted who beat him up until Summer was killed. Regardless of what these teens were involved in (and I don't have problems with them being charged to the fullest extent of the law) I don't understand why no charges for the man who actually fired the shot. In FL, DA Angela Corey got a woman convicted for firing a "warning shot" into the ceiling (and no one was killed). Supposedly that woman is facing 20 years.
And yet here they are telling us there is nothing whatsoever they can charge this adult male with?

Because the reason they fired the gun was to protect property. The kids were commiting a crime. Obviously they were well on their way to becoming career criminals. It was the life they chose. Summer, unfortunately, is not innocent either. She was commiting a crime side-by-side with them that night. Did she deserve to die? No! But she did and her actions that night, along with those who she was with, caused it.

A woman who fires a gun into a ceiling, for no other reason than the be firing a gun, is firing into a dwelling. It's a crime.

There's a big difference.

MOO
 
  • #111
Because the reason they fired the gun was to protect property. The kids were commiting a crime. Obviously they were well on their way to becoming career criminals. It was the life they chose. Summer, unfortunately, is not innocent either. She was commiting a crime side-by-side with them that night. Did she deserve to die? No! But she did and her actions that night, along with those who she was with, caused it.

A woman who fires a gun into a ceiling, for no other reason than the be firing a gun, is firing into a dwelling. It's a crime.

There's a big difference.

MOO

Where does it say that to protect property someone can randomly fire a gun in any direction without being able to see what that someone is shooting at? If I believe somebody stole my property can I just get out on the street and start randomly firing "warning shots?"
 
  • #112
Where does it say that to protect property someone can randomly fire a gun in any direction without being able to see what that someone is shooting at? If I believe somebody stole my property can I just get out on the street and start randomly firing "warning shots?"

Not to mention that when you track someone off of said property (which they've vacated it previous to your arrival), onto public land no less, and then initiate contact via pointing a gun at them...yeah, that's not defending anything, that's being a vigilante.

According to this DA's logic, if my upstairs neighbor steals my UPS deliveries yet again, I can go up there and confront him with a gun, and if I happen to fire off a shot that 'randomly' kills someone, it's all kosher, since, you know, he's accused of a crime and all. Yeah, that makes sense...
 
  • #113
Not to mention that when you track someone off of said property (which they've vacated it previous to your arrival), onto public land no less, and then initiate contact via pointing a gun at them...yeah, that's not defending anything, that's being a vigilante.

According to this DA's logic, if my upstairs neighbor steals my UPS deliveries yet again, I can go up there and confront him with a gun, and if I happen to fire off a shot that 'randomly' kills someone, it's all kosher, since, you know, he's accused of a crime and all. Yeah, that makes sense...

I believe if the shot randomly killed an innocent person, they would be facing charges. It didn't. It shot one of the burglars. If you followed your neighbor, who stole your property and you shot him... I believe it would be justified under the law. He was commiting a crime. You were protecting your property. Now if you randomly shot an innocent person, I would guess you would be charged?

Vigilate justice is what happened in the Trayvon Martin case. GZ took out his aggressions on an innocent kid who was doing nothing but walking home because kids who looked like him had been accused of robbing homes. Trayvon had every right to be where he was at. The kids in this case had no right to be where they were as their intentions were obvious -- they were only there to commit a crime.

MOO
 
  • #114
I believe if the shot randomly killed an innocent person, they would be facing charges. It didn't. It shot one of the burglars. If you followed your neighbor, who stole your property and you shot him... I believe it would be justified under the law. He was commiting a crime. You were protecting your property. Now if you randomly shot an innocent person, I would guess you would be charged?

Vigilate justice is what happened in the Trayvon Martin case. GZ took out his aggressions on an innocent kid who was doing nothing but walking home because kids who looked like him had been accused of robbing homes. Trayvon had every right to be where he was at. The kids in this case had no right to be where they were as their intentions were obvious -- they were only there to commit a crime.

MOO



So your neighbor comes into your YARD (this was no dwelling) with his brother and sister. The brothers decide to take your pink flamingo. You run out with your gun and shoot "warning shots" into the bush his sister was hiding in. She dies. Would that be justified? Don't make comparisons that have no resemblance to the issue at hand. And Trayvon's shooter is being tried in a court of law so there MAY be justice, that's the only difference. Neither of the shooters owned the property they were protecting and neither had any right to kill someone.
 
  • #115
I believe if the shot randomly killed an innocent person, they would be facing charges. It didn't. It shot one of the burglars. If you followed your neighbor, who stole your property and you shot him... I believe it would be justified under the law. He was commiting a crime. You were protecting your property. Now if you randomly shot an innocent person, I would guess you would be charged?

Vigilate justice is what happened in the Trayvon Martin case. GZ took out his aggressions on an innocent kid who was doing nothing but walking home because kids who looked like him had been accused of robbing homes. Trayvon had every right to be where he was at. The kids in this case had no right to be where they were as their intentions were obvious -- they were only there to commit a crime.

MOO

Sorry, but the castle doctrine & defense of property only covers what happens on your own property, and only if you feel threatened & have no ready means of escape. It certainly doesn't cover apprehension of fled suspects or recovery of property, both of which are actions that LE wisely reserves for itself. This isn't the wild west - just because you think someone stole from you (even if they have the property in their hands) does not mean that you can go about threatening them with a lethal weapon, let alone killing them.

Sorry, in every State of the Union, tracking someone down with a weapon is vigilantism. In such cases, the party who initiates contact is responsible for any injuries or deaths that occur thereafter. And for good reason - lynch mobs & vigilantes get the wrong guy more often than not, plus we do have this little thing called due process.

All JMO
 
  • #116
Don't get mad at me? Get mad at the law. I don't make the laws.

Here's a recent case from Florida. It's basically what happened in this case. The person chased down and killed the man for stealing radios. Not just his, but other neighbors too.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/28/miami-judge-rules-in-stan_n_1385219.html

I'm sure a lawyer would have no problem representing Summer's parents, if they so wish to fight these laws. That's the only way they are going to get Justice for Summer because unfortunately, these guys are truly covered under the law as the kids were actually committing a crime. It sucks! I agree!

But what if... what if... one of these men ended up dead at the hands of these kids? They were well on their way to becoming very dangerous young men. I won't include Summer in that because I don't know how many times she was involved.

Would it have been different if he had shot one of the boys? Or if she were older? Or if she was Hispanic? Black? Or would it be the same no matter what?
 
  • #117
Don't get mad at me? Get mad at the law. I don't make the laws.

Here's a recent case from Florida. It's basically what happened in this case. The person chased down and killed the man for stealing radios. Not just his, but other neighbors too.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/28/miami-judge-rules-in-stan_n_1385219.html

I'm sure a lawyer would have no problem representing Summer's parents, if they so wish to fight these laws. That's the only way they are going to get Justice for Summer because unfortunately, these guys are truly covered under the law as the kids were actually committing a crime. It sucks! I agree!

But what if... what if... one of these men ended up dead at the hands of these kids? They were well on their way to becoming very dangerous young men. I won't include Summer in that because I don't know how many times she was involved.

Would it have been different if he had shot one of the boys? Or if she were older? Or if she was Hispanic? Black? Or would it be the same no matter what?

Hey, I'm not mad at you! Really! Just stating my take on things...and yes, angry, but angry at the Sheriff & DA & especially the shooter, but not at you.

That judge is an idiot. Seriously. 'Stand your ground' laws do not authorize you to chase someone down and murder them. That is not defending yourself. That is forcing a confrontation. Until these past few years, all precedents point to such an action as being the root cause of any injuries or deaths, not the interceding events that were precipitated by the contact. Just like Felony Murder. Of course, it doesn't surprise me that such a ruling would come out of the legal cesspool known as Florida, where due process no longer exists in any rational form. ("oh, you saved the courts time and killed one of them there criminals? Good on you!")

Regardless of the criminal acts of the idiot teens, they were not threatening those men, were no longer engaged in criminal activity at the time of contact, did not engage with the men, and were on public land when contact was made. The men had the ability to call the authorities, observe & wait. Instead they ran off half-cocked with lethal weapons, tried to be action heroes, and then wondered why someone got hurt.

So yes, even going by the strange wording of 'stand your ground', it would still be an illegal & irresponsible act regardless of who was shot. And regardless, it should be up to a jury to decide whether these 'stand your ground' laws cover incidents with contradictory testimony/evidence. And one still may - if enough noise is made, like in Trayvon's case. As many of these cases need to be taken to the courts by the DAs as possible, so that one of them can reach a high enough level for long established precedent to be reaffirmed.

I do have to ask why you feel it necessary to ask me about age & race. Really...I don't want to take offense, but the wording there seems to be making implications about my motives that are...well, not very nice...

All JMO and not intended to be taken personally.
 
  • #118
It just always gets to me when someone who is committing a crime and gets caught or hurt some suddenly wants the law to defend them. They are instantly the victim. They disregard the law and don't care how it hurts anyone else (including their families) but then they want to turn around and use the laws (which they did not respect) to suddenly protect them.

I'm sorry the young girl's life ended so tragically but it was a direct result of her and the boys choices. They had plenty of intent to break numerous laws. They brought guns to commit a crime with.

The residents were there lawfully. Their camp might have been the next one broken into and they may been shot and killed had they caught the kids in a situation where the kids were cornered. They were in a remote area where police response would take a while to get there (by boat, I think). So they shot warning shots with NO intent to hurt anyone. Unfortunately someone got hurt but the people in the wrong were the criminals.

The kids had the intent to break numerous laws with no regard. The campers had NO intent of hurting anyone.
 
  • #119
ITA with Skewed View.I don't understand that so many posters seem to approve Vigilante justice.It's exactly what this is IMO.There was no reason for shots to be fired IMO,the residents were not being threatened.
I don't think it's comparable to the Trayvon case but IMO in that case if Trayvon would have been shot down by Zimmerman after commiting an actual crime it would have been just as wrong.Self defense laws are not in effect so people can go around avenging crimes.I understand the residents probably did not mean to hurt anyone but everytime you fire a weapon it's a possibility.
Now a girl is dead.They need to charge that guy with involuntary manslaughter.
 
  • #120
It just always gets to me when someone who is committing a crime and gets caught or hurt some suddenly wants the law to defend them. They are instantly the victim. They disregard the law and don't care how it hurts anyone else (including their families) but then they want to turn around and use the laws (which they did not respect) to suddenly protect them.

I'm sorry the young girl's life ended so tragically but it was a direct result of her and the boys choices. They had plenty of intent to break numerous laws. They brought guns to commit a crime with.

The residents were there lawfully. Their camp might have been the next one broken into and they may been shot and killed had they caught the kids in a situation where the kids were cornered. They were in a remote area where police response would take a while to get there (by boat, I think). So they shot warning shots with NO intent to hurt anyone. Unfortunately someone got hurt but the people in the wrong were the criminals.

The kids had the intent to break numerous laws with no regard. The campers had NO intent of hurting anyone.

Excellent post - you got to the heart of the matter.
 

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