AL - Woman Intenionally Severed Umbilical Cord, Florence

  • #21
It sounds like a "home version late term abortion" to me. They broke the membrane, the fluid gushed and then nothing happened and she got up and walked around and the cord prolapsed. Boyfriend got involved, saw something hanging and cut it. Good point about the fact that it would be difficult for a person to do to themselves alone.
 
  • #22
I agree that they could have conspired to do a late abortion in their apartment. I doubt very seriously she had any prenatal care, and most likely, no information or access to an early, safe, legal abortion, if that had been her wish. CH Homes is a whole other world of disadvantaged people and extreme deprivation and crime existing in a small, friendly town.
I don't know how they would have ruptured her membranes, don't even want to think about how gruesome that would be at 7 months if she was not dilated.
It's so sad for the poor innocent baby, and such a sick situation all the way around.
Maria
 
  • #23
Her membranes had already ruptured. It is quite likely that the umbillical cord was partially prolapsed ( out in the birth canal), and it was cut while it was hanging out. Whether or not she knew she was murdering her unborn child is not really clear. Her level of understanding is not known.

This is one of the main reasons why women are told to go to the hospital when their membranes rupture. The umbillical cord can come out easily, or infection can occur.
Maria

The article says the cord was severed while still "in her uterus" so I'm not sure about the prolapse, although I surely cannot imagine how ELSE she'd have done this!

I don't believe in abortion and I'm not an abortion supporter, but our legal system is jumping back and forth over a fine line. Abortion is legal, but the mom is charged with manslaughter if SHE does it?
 
  • #24
I don't believe in abortion and I'm not an abortion supporter, but our legal system is jumping back and forth over a fine line. Abortion is legal, but the mom is charged with manslaughter if SHE does it?

This woman was 7 months pregnant making the baby a fetus. In several states you can be charged with killing a fetus. This woman passed the legal point for getting an abortion several months ago.

On a side note, the woman has 2 children living with their father. Why do they live with him? Were they taken from her by CPS? Is she a druggie?
I guess drugs could explain how she could bear the gruesomeness of however this happened.

Deep inside of me, I want to believe that her water broke, the unbilical cord came through her cervex and out of her vagina. The boyfriend saw it and said "The baby is on its way. I know that part of delivering a baby is cutting the umbilical cord". You would think that if this happened, the boyfriend would call 911 and say that he is in the process of delivering a baby. The water broke, he cut the cord, and is still waiting for the baby to come out.

Of course they say it was severed internally. A coat hanger to break the water? Poked a hole through the umbillicle cord? That is the only logical scenario I see. I like the protruding cord except for the fact that it was done while inside the uterous.

I'm thinking she was on drugs.
 
  • #25
I cannot say how her membranes were ruptured because it is not stated. I don't know if it's known yet. They arrested her for outstanding traffic tickets and are investigating what happened. HK Hosp. did the right thing by reporting the extremely horrible death, of course, but I am not sure all is known yet. She could very well be on drugs.
This woman is from Cherry Hill Homes, a housing project which is well known to people in the area for gang violence, drugs, and all kinds of crime.
I have a friend who still lives in the town ( but far away from Cherry Hill Homes) and he has said that it was SO bad when he was investigating Welfare fraud as a social worker that he was afraid to be there in the daytime. ( he is kind of a scrawny little guy).
It is a haven for drug users, and to be honest, I cannot imagine a young woman in full control of her mental facilities living there. I question her mental acuity because living in a womens and childrens shelter would be better. There is a nice one in the area, called Safeplace. They defintely would have helped her with her pregnancy and daily life.

I wanted to make certain that no one thinks I am defending a possible fetacide by parents. I had to think long and hard before I could say how and why I have reservations about her role in this vs. the man's. I honestly don't see how she could cut the intact but protruding cord herself, plus, she would also be hemorrhaging afterwards. The umbilical cord is also attached to the placenta, which is attached to her uterine wall.
This tells me that she might not know what would happen and that perhaps the boyfriend did it. NO ONE wants to bleed to death, and she could have.

It would be quite unusual if the umbilical cord was actually visible by natural means. It would be up next to the opening of her cervix, possibly protruding into her vagina after the rupture of membranes and gush of amnoitic fluid, which can definitely propel an umbilical cord out of the open cervix. I guess that if it was not tangled, a person could put traction on it and pull it out. That is so horrible to think about, but I guess it had to have been done that way.

I don't know but ANYTHING'S possible at Cherry Hill Homes. It is an example of man's inhumanity to man ( and woman). Lots of rapes and sexual assaults on people of all ages there. Horrible horrible legacy of pain and crime. I feel so sick about a poor little baby dying that way.
Maria
maria, i agree with your posts. the only way i can see this happening is with a cord prolapse. i don't know that she could have made her cord prolapse on her own... you know? how would she have know she was dialated to "break" her own water (if they stuck something up there) if she was not receiving medical care, ect. even if she did mechanically break her own water (lets say, coat hanger) she STILL may not have gotten the cord to prolapse. she could have very well died. i am guessing that maybe she had a cord prolapse, didn't want to go to the hospital (drug use) and maybe incorrectly thought that cutting the cord would allow her to give birth (she probably had no clue re: the birthing process).
i'm not totally ready to hang this mom out to dry yet. people can be reallly stupid... i am thinking more stupidity and drug use than malicousness. also, i think she would have had assistance in all of this... someone else cutting, etc.
 
  • #26
I don't believe in abortion and I'm not an abortion supporter, but our legal system is jumping back and forth over a fine line. Abortion is legal, but the mom is charged with manslaughter if SHE does it?

I agree.

I was thinking about this, so I tried to figure out what the law is in Alabama. If this page is accurate, there are a couple reasons why she could be charged.

Alabama has a ban on post viable abortions (I'm assuming at 7 months she would be considered post viable.) Also, apparently only a licensed physician can perform abortions, and I'm assuming that neither of them was a doctor.

My guess is that, if I'm even barking up the right tree, it's because of how far along she was.
 
  • #27
There are a lot of differing opinions in the woman's local community right now too.
They range from "Kill her too" to " She's a drug addict and needs compassion". Their words, not mine. You can read the free forum on www.timesdaily.com ( the local newspaper). There are 3 threads in the News section devoted to this case.

It is mostly unknown what happened, except that a baby girl who is believed to have been a viable fetus which could have lived, died due to human intervention to cause her death. Also, " instruments used" in the cutting are reported to have been removed by the police from the boyfriend's apartment, according to the report on CBS-TV 19 in Huntsville.

I am not ready to call this murder by the mother YET based on what Pedinurse and I believe must have happened naturally first. Yes, there is criminal culpability of someone because an umbilical cord is very tough. It is not a little sliver of a thing to be severed with a coat hanger.
I doubt any of us could sever a normal sized umbilical cord of a 7 month fetus with a coat hanger if the mother's life somehow depended upon it. Also, umbilical cords don't just break unless there is a congenital abnormality, in which case the autopsy report and pathology report will show. But, cutting instruments at the scene pretty much tell us that this was not a malformed umbilical cord.

WARNING: GRAPHIC DESCRIPTION OF NORMAL UMBILICAL CORD APPEARANCE!!!
For those who have never seen an umblilical cord up close and personal, it is rounded, sometimes with twists and knots, bluish white in color, aabout 3 and 3/4 inches around and is several feet long. Probably a bit smaller in a 7 month fetus, but not much smaller than full term. I was trying to come up with a size analogy and a garden hose was the nearest common object I can come up with, about 3 and 3/4 inches of very tough membranes and thick blood vessels. It's not precise, but close. The cord is a bit smaller than most garden hoses but this gives you an idea of the diameter in normal pregnancies. It is also covered by membaneous tissue, and contains 3 major blood vessels. The blood vessels keep the fetus alive. Severing them would cause the fetus to die and the mother to hemorrhage. Depending on what was then done to the umblilical cord in this situation, she would have bled either internally or with a large amount of bleeding noted externally. I don't know which happened to her, but the woman risked death or someone else risked her death.

EDITED TO ADD: Raw turkey neck. That's the closest thing I've ever seen which looks like an umbilical cord.

It's a sickening tragedy and a crime which obviously shocks us and causes us to be angry too. I'm not sure who to be angry at, exactly yet. I don't think she could have done this without help, or IMO, without prematurely ruptured membranes with a prolapsing cord already present. If a coat hanger was used on her internally in an attempt to rupture her membranes, there is absolutely NO reason to think that the umbilical cord would have " come out". None. Also, the fetus would have had gouges and so forth from the coat hanger or other crude instrument. If this is present, it has not been stated.

More questions than answers in this tragic and horrible situation.
Maria
 
  • #28
but wait ... but how ???
 
  • #29
My copy & paste isn't working, but there is a long article on http://www.timesdaily.com with lots of details from the father of the baby, NOT the boyfriend. Very strange. It seems as if he was willing to care for the baby and both of them were excited about having a baby girl.
 
  • #30
My copy & paste isn't working, but there is a long article on http://www.timesdaily.com with lots of details from the father of the baby, NOT the boyfriend. Very strange. It seems as if he was willing to care for the baby and both of them were excited about having a baby girl.

That was one of the most heartbreaking things I've ever read. That poor man. He would have been such a good daddy to that little girl. That just angers me even more that the "mother" could do something so selfish.
 
  • #31
Wow some of the comments over there are amazingly ignorant.
http://forums.timesdaily.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5521043475/m/9031043837

Oh ladies please ,your killing me ,,you mean to tell me that you cant put a tampon in without looking down there ? Cool
(Hmmm, I've never tried to shove a tampon into my uterus, have you?)

If she could reach down there to bathe, she could have done it, but I doubt she did it herself
(Nope, never tried to bathe my uterus either)

I've had 3 kids and I'm just not seeing it. I want to hear a lot more about how this was done.

Hi, btw, I don't think I've ever posted anything before. Usually a lurker. Those men got my ire up though, they obviously have no understanding of anatomy.
 
  • #32
shouldn't the boyfriend or someone be arrested too? She had to allow or have someone to do this.
 

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