All About Chloroform#2

[Jersey*Girl]

I don't like any drowning scenario, but any source of chlorine is a potential source for one of the main components of chloroform - CHLORINE. Pool chemicals are one of the suggestions in the how to make chloroform pages. Though just to be negative, chemicals obviously very dilute in the actual pool water, and not very much chlorine provided by the volume in a child's lungs.

If the chloroform came from chlorine, I would think it would leave a bleached spot in the trunk...wouldn't it? Not sure...

 

[Hot Dogs]

The docs state that there were three stains in the trunk. I guess the largest was basketball-sized.

 

[Rumpole]

Inside of a sealed trash bag is one possibility.

Anything produced by the anaerobic condition inside the plastic bag did not appreciably leak into the trunk. The various theories assume that the body was not sealed in a bag for the first three days or so and that is how the decomp evidence got in the trunk. The first few days of decomp do have more of the anaerobic reaction compounds because they form in the body before leaking out. There would have been some chloroform produced by that. They did find more than that would account for. All I am saying is that extra COULD be explained as coming from cleaning or pool chemicals or whatever. Easy enough for defence to argue that whether it is true or not.

 

[Chilly Willy]

Considering that it only takes a couple cups of Chlorine to treat an entire pool, the amount that would be found in the lungs of a drowned toddler would be like a billionth of a drop. Certainly not enough to accidentally create Chloroform in any measurable amount, IMO.

 

[Jersey*Girl]

Considering that it only takes a couple cups of Chlorine to treat an entire pool, the amount that would be found in the lungs of a drowned toddler would be like a billionth of a drop. Certainly not enough to accidentally create Chloroform in any measurable amount, IMO.

Which is what I've been trying to say Thanks.

 

[Hot Dogs]

Considering that it only takes a couple cups of Chlorine to treat an entire pool, the amount that would be found in the lungs of a drowned toddler would be like a billionth of a drop. Certainly not enough to accidentally create Chloroform in any measurable amount, IMO.

I doubt that a forensic biochemist working with gas chromatography would agree with that.

 

[natsound]

I have searched how to make chloroform now as well. I have some knowledge of chemistry and lab work, but it took me some time to read and understand. KC viewed once as far as I have heard, and spent only a few minutes to cover that and a host of other sites. I am not convinced she did more than scan it and would not have retained the info.
It's a great piece of the puzzle if chloroform is found in the remains, or traces are found in KC's possession, but just a coincidence based on what we know so far.

Just FYI.. Mike Brooks is no expert on chloroform, but this is what he said about it back in October on NG...

MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Down to Duane Reed or to Wal-Mart, Nancy, to get that acetone. Absolutely. It`s not very hard to make at all. But one of the things -- it`s very, very -- you`ve got to be very, very careful because it can turn into some other -- other, as I call it ethyl-methyl bad stuff, you know, such as phosgene, if it`s allowed to sit in the sunlight for too long, if it`s not cool. I mean, it`s very unstable stuff, Nancy. It`s not something that you want to play with. And you know, but you can get all kinds of different strengths of it, depending on how you mix it.

 

[Rumpole]

Just FYI.. Mike Brooks is no expert on chloroform, but this is what he said about it back in October on NG...

MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Down to Duane Reed or to Wal-Mart, Nancy, to get that acetone. Absolutely. It`s not very hard to make at all. But one of the things -- it`s very, very -- you`ve got to be very, very careful because it can turn into some other -- other, as I call it ethyl-methyl bad stuff, you know, such as phosgene, if it`s allowed to sit in the sunlight for too long, if it`s not cool. I mean, it`s very unstable stuff, Nancy. It`s not something that you want to play with. And you know, but you can get all kinds of different strengths of it, depending on how you mix it.

I've said before. These chemicals are toxic. Could knock out the person messing with them at the very least. A few years ago when chloroform was used as a solvent in medicine, I "fainted" from the fumes coming off a small dish of chlorofrm. At that time used to wash of plastic dressing.
Acetone is flammable and so is choloform.
No big deal for any clued up person to make it, but that's not Dopey KC.

 

[txsvicki]

I don't think there's any way that Casey drowned Caylee in the pool because she might have been afraid the child would vomit or leave something traceable. Also, Casey had further use of that pool in case she had to come back home at some point. She would have wanted to lounge and tan in that pool if she got away with it all, being the poor victim with a missing child and all.

 

[Jersey*Girl]

I have searched how to make chloroform now as well. I have some knowledge of chemistry and lab work, but it took me some time to read and understand. KC viewed once as far as I have heard, and spent only a few minutes to cover that and a host of other sites. I am not convinced she did more than scan it and would not have retained the info.
It's a great piece of the puzzle if chloroform is found in the remains, or traces are found in KC's possession, but just a coincidence based on what we know so far.

Hi HP. I just thought of something. Can Ecstasy contain chloroform or chloroform byproducts? Wasn't it mentioned that KC's new-found friends are known Canibas, X, and Xanax users? If little Caylee were accidentally given the wrong "pill", could it elevate chloroform levels? Were the FBI able to decipher drugs in the hair found? The reason I'm asking is b/c some of the chemicals found to be present are also contained in the manufacturing of said drugs. The reason I came to the tablet (pill) method of administration is b/c they also make Benadryl chewable tablets. I'm probably wrong but just thought I'd ask.

 

[impatientredhead]

I am of the opinion that the chloroform search is coincidental and that the chloroform was formed by reaction to whatever she tried to clean the trunk with.

When using detergents that contain chlorine in the dishwasher or clothes washer the air in your home becomes polluted through a process called "volatilization" which takes place when the chlorine in the water transfers the chlorine to the air.

If you recall the document dump specifically shows they tried to pinpoint the ingredient of the bottle of detergent found in the trunk but at that time were not able to, so they provided the manufacturer and lot info.

IIRC- the lab results do not show the presence of acetone so it wasn't whipped up at home.

 

[Hot Dogs]

Considering that it only takes a couple cups of Chlorine to treat an entire pool, the amount that would be found in the lungs of a drowned toddler would be like a billionth of a drop. Certainly not enough to accidentally create Chloroform in any measurable amount, IMO.

Any inhaled pool water would contain the same concentration of chlorine as that water. Saying it would contain a "billionth of a drop" (of chlorine) is not meaningful.


From LaMotte

The ideal free chlorine range for pools is 1-3 ppm...

Assuming the Anthony's pool water is in the ideal range - the water in the lungs would contain 1-3 ppm of free chlorine. If a chlorine shock treatment was recently added, the level could be higher.

Gas chromatography analysis is capable of measuring in parts per billion (ppb).

 

[TSPnc]

Welcome back ChillY WillY missed reading your posts

 

[Jersey*Girl]

Any inhaled pool water would contain the same concentration of chlorine as that water. Saying it would contain a "billionth of a drop" (of chlorine) is not meaningful.


From LaMotte



Assuming the Anthony's pool water is in the ideal range - the water in the lungs would contain 1-3 ppm of free chlorine. If a chlorine shock treatment was recently added, the level could be higher.

Gas chromatography analysis is capable of measuring in parts per billion (ppb).

Ok. I'm working with this. I found that the longer a body is in a chlorinated pool, the higher the level could be for chloroform absorbed or swallowed. So, I wonder if Caylee did drown (b/c KC was too busy to pay attention to her daughter), would the amount of chlorinated water filling her lungs emit a high level of chloroform? Considering Chloroform sits at it strongest right above water level, I'm not quite sure. Lemme go research:waitasec:

 

[Chilly Willy]

Any inhaled pool water would contain the same concentration of chlorine as that water. Saying it would contain a "billionth of a drop" (of chlorine) is not meaningful.


From LaMotte



Assuming the Anthony's pool water is in the ideal range - the water in the lungs would contain 1-3 ppm of free chlorine. If a chlorine shock treatment was recently added, the level could be higher.

Gas chromatography analysis is capable of measuring in parts per billion (ppb).

My point is not really whether it could be measured or not, it's that the amount of chlorine found in that small amount of pool water would be so miniscule as to probably not even fit on the head of a pin. It would not be enough to make substantial amounts of chloroform.

 

[Rumpole]

Hi HP. I just thought of something. Can Ecstasy contain chloroform or chloroform byproducts? Wasn't it mentioned that KC's new-found friends are known Canibas, X, and Xanax users? If little Caylee were accidentally given the wrong "pill", could it elevate chloroform levels? Were the FBI able to decipher drugs in the hair found? The reason I'm asking is b/c some of the chemicals found to be present are also contained in the manufacturing of said drugs. The reason I came to the tablet (pill) method of administration is b/c they also make Benadryl chewable tablets. I'm probably wrong but just thought I'd ask.

Heaven knows why you ask ME about ecstacy? Do my posts suggest I know of such things. For your info I am not sure ecstacy had been invented when I was a boy?
However, I do remember from my youth thousands of years ago, perhaps knowing first hand about the use of chloroform as a solvent to extract alkaloids from plant material? So no doubt it could have uses in the more modern scene? I don't know why chloroform rather than lots of other solvents.
My understsnding of hair analysis is that is great for detecting drugs used back over time. I am not sure if a final fatal dose would have time to get as far as the hair. Perhaps it would? I don't know.

 

[Jersey*Girl]

Heaven knows why you ask ME about ecstacy? Do my posts suggest I know of such things. For your info I am not sure ecstacy had been invented when I was a boy?
However, I do remember from my youth thousands of years ago, perhaps knowing first hand about the use of chloroform as a solvent to extract alkaloids from plant material? So no doubt it could have uses in the more modern scene? I don't know why chloroform rather than lots of other solvents.
My understsnding of hair analysis is that is great for detecting drugs used back over time. I am not sure if a final fatal dose would have time to get as far as the hair. Perhaps it would? I don't know.

Oh, please no don't take it that way I asked you out of respect as you stated you have some knowledge with chem. Sorry for the misunderstanding. Your quote informed "I have searched how to make chloroform now as well. I have some knowledge of chemistry and lab work, but it took me some time to read and understand." - that's why I asked you. Having said that, when news of this first broke, I researched her friends from Facebook & MySpace. I have several friends in the Orlando vicinity and inquired around. Then what I had already found out became newsworthy in the media - I guess it became common knowledge, who knows. Anyway, I researched Ecstasy, Xanax, and Weed. MJ - of course we all know that is grown and is natural. Ecstasy & Xanax are mind altering chemicals. It is my belief that one or more of those chemicals found to be present in the tested evidence could also be an ingredient in such drugs. I'm not sold on KC being a habitual drug user but I am inclined to believe she's tried these on more than one occasion. So, that's why I asked you...out of respect...since your posts are so intelligent and thought provoking. It is b/c of intelligent theories, discussions, research - that I finally came out of lurking. I've been reading up on WS for a little over a year! Now I wish I'd have joined when it was first started! Thanks for everyone's input:blowkiss:

 

[Jersey*Girl]

One other thing regarding the testing of the hair for drugs: I've read that at least 1/2 an inch is needed for a thorough examination for all known (chemically habitual or common) drugs to be ruled out. Is this true? Does anyone know?

 

[Rumpole]

Oh, please no don't take it that way I asked you out of respect as you stated you have some knowledge with chem. Sorry for the misunderstanding. Your quote informed "I have searched how to make chloroform now as well. I have some knowledge of chemistry and lab work, but it took me some time to read and understand." - that's why I asked you. Having said that, when news of this first broke, I researched her friends from Facebook & MySpace. I have several friends in the Orlando vicinity and inquired around. Then what I had already found out became newsworthy in the media - I guess it became common knowledge, who knows. Anyway, I researched Ecstasy, Xanax, and Weed. MJ - of course we all know that is grown and is natural. Ecstasy & Xanax are mind altering chemicals. It is my belief that one or more of those chemicals found to be present in the tested evidence could also be an ingredient in such drugs. I'm not sold on KC being a habitual drug user but I am inclined to believe she's tried these on more than one occasion. So, that's why I asked you...out of respect...since your posts are so intelligent and thought provoking. It is b/c of intelligent theories, discussions, research - that I finally came out of lurking. I've been reading up on WS for a little over a year! Now I wish I'd have joined when it was first started! Thanks for everyone's input:blowkiss:

I didn't really take offence.
Interesting to theorise as long as we keep in mind there is no evidence of any drug etc being involved. I don't think KC could afford/would waste ellicit drugs. I think if anything cold medicine etc.

 

[Jersey*Girl]

I didn't really take offence.
Interesting to theorise as long as we keep in mind there is no evidence of any drug etc being involved. I don't think KC could afford/would waste ellicit drugs. I think if anything cold medicine etc.

Yeah, you're right. I'm thinking cold medicine, too. I was just thinking maybe it would have been easy for her to get it from a friend free of charge. As usual, I tend to think the easiest is probably the most logical - so Benadryl or an OTC cold medicine is probably the way it went down. Thanks again.