All Things Dick Cheney

[Buzz Mills]

Oh yeah Buzz, how many quail hunts you been on? SPIN? That's laughable--it is common basic safety rules.

When following a bird whilst wingshooting, there is both a presumption and a requirement that no one be in your assigned field of fire.

I can assure you that if you were to say....go to the mid-West....to an outfitter for a pheasant hunt (for all you Cheney haters, I said PHeasant hunt not PEasant hunt) or a quail hunt that the outfitter would explain to you that.it is YOUR responsibility to know exactly where all members of your hunting party are and to make sure you are out of the other hunter's fields of fire. Furthermore, it is your responsibility if you fall behind or leave your party (say to take an Al Gore) to make sure you vocalize your position when returning. Even further more, you are responsible to walk up directly behind the hunter and the dog handler when returning to the party. Voilate these rules and see how fast you have an outfitter in your face. Why don't you try calling an outfitter and asking about their rules of hunting before you tell us all that established rules are spin?

If you are deer hunting, you have time to verify what is behind your target and ensure say there are no other hunters, homes, roads, cars, etc. In wing shooting, you are in the middle of a giant prarie where no one else is supposed to be. It is your responsibility not to swing your gun muzzle outside of your assigned shooting area and the responsiblitiy of everyone ELSE TO STAY OUT OF YOUR SHOOTING AREA.

Perhaps Dick swung outside of his area, I don't know. But I do know from what I have read that the hunter left the group (to take an Al Gore, I assume) and didn't announce his return to the group and was in Dick's shooting area.

When quail hunting, you don't have the time to make sure there are no other hunters in the field....that's why it is the responsibility of all hunting parties to assign a field of fire for each hunter and stay out of those areas. IMHO, if this was a guided hunt, it should have stopped until all parties were back.

Cal

No, calus--it is quite the opposite. Take any hunter safety course--and what is the most important thing they are going to teach you. Make sure there isn't anyone in your line of fire. It is purely the shooter's responsibility to know what, or who, is in his line of fire.

I started hunting when I was 12 calus.

For you to say: "When following a bird whilst wingshooting, there is both a presumption and a requirement that no one be in your assigned field of fire", is a completely ludricous statement.

Presumption????? why don't you just say assume, it makes just about the same amount of sense. That's ridiculous.

I can't wait for all of the hunter safety trainers to weigh in on this issue.

 

[Mabel]

Well, now your ex and his family are pigs....no offense.

Anyone can shoot an animal or trap it. Not anyone can be a hunter.

Cal

Everyone gets the same hunting licenses.

You asked why hunters have such a bad rep, I'm answering. My ex's family is by no means a rarity. Surely they are not the only ones who hide behind rocks waiting to shoot little gophers as they pop their heads out of their burrows (kinda like playing wack-a-mole but not). Tell me, are gophers good eatin'? How about chipmunks playing in the forest? Ever have chipmunk stew? How about sparrow on a bisquit?

I don't mean to take anything away from the "real" hunters. While I think hunting is a barbaric "sport" I have to respect those that at least do it with compassion and out of need. But you're really fooling yourself if you think there aren't many many hunters who kill just "for fun". That's where hunting gets it's bad name.

 

[calus_3]

No, calus--it is quite the opposite. Take any hunter safety course--and what is the most important thing they are going to teach you. Make sure there isn't anyone in your line of fire. It is purely the shooter's responsibility to know what, or who, is in his line of fire.

I started hunting when I was 12 calus.

For you to say: "When following a bird whilst wingshooting, there is both a presumption and a requirement that no one be in your assigned field of fire", is a completely ludricous statement.

Presumption????? why don't you just say assume, it makes just about the same amount of sense. That's ridiculous.

I can't wait for all of the hunter safety trainers to weigh in on this issue.

I am sure that they are just waiting in the wings!

There is a dual responsibilty here to know what you are pointing at and not to walk into an area where someone is shooting. Yes, Cheney pulled the trigger but he was focused on the bird and not on the man who was out of position. If every quail hunter stopped to survey the landscape as they are shooting, it would be impossible. I think it is highly likely that the guy walked up while the dog was at a point into an area Cheney aldready had cleared while Cheney was focused on the birds that are about to flush.

Go try a quail hunt and then come back to discuss it with an informed opinion. Without the presumption of a cleared shooting area, quail hunting is impossible.

Cal

 

[calus_3]

Everyone gets the same hunting licenses.

You asked why hunters have such a bad rep, I'm answering. My ex's family is by no means a rarity. Surely they are not the only ones who hide behind rocks waiting to shoot little gophers as they pop their heads out of their burrows (kinda like playing wack-a-mole but not). Tell me, are gophers good eatin'? How about chipmunks playing in the forest? Ever have chipmunk stew? How about sparrow on a bisquit?

I don't mean to take anything away from the "real" hunters. While I think hunting is a barbaric "sport" I have to respect those that at least do it with compassion and out of need. But you're really fooling yourself if you think there aren't many many hunters who kill just "for fun". That's where hunting gets it's bad name.

Oh I agree and there are a lot of punks out there but they aren't hunters. That's the distinction.

Kind of like saying every woman in CA has implants and is an actress. While CA has it's share, it is unfair to charcterize everyone as being that.

Cal

 

[Txbabydoll]

You'all just don't understand the rules....
1. if you get shot by the Vice President it is going to be your fault.
2. you will get the best care anywhere because they won't let you die and let the Vice President be the one to be blamed.
3. You will refuse to comment so as not the embarass the vice president.
4. You will be able to milk this for anything you want.

P.S. Mr. Whittington is a great guy!

 

[calus_3]

What about Hillary's accident?

http://newsmax.com/archives/ic/2006/2/13/131728.shtml?s=ic

That is telling and even I didn't hear about this until today.

Cal

 

[Mabel]

........................

Go try a quail hunt and then come back to discuss it with an informed opinion. Without the presumption of a cleared shooting area, quail hunting is impossible.

Cal

Then maybe it should be outlawed. Is it really so important to shoot a little bird that it's worth risking human lives?

 

[Mabel]

What about Hillary's accident?

http://newsmax.com/archives/ic/2006/2/13/131728.shtml?s=ic

That is telling and even I didn't hear about this until today.

Cal

Obviously it would be impossible to get to a fund raiser without "presuming" that no security cop would be in the line of fire. Therefore it's excused.

 

[Buzz Mills]

I am sure that they are just waiting in the wings!

There is a dual responsibilty here to know what you are pointing at and not to walk into an area where someone is shooting. Yes, Cheney pulled the trigger but he was focused on the bird and not on the man who was out of position. If every quail hunter stopped to survey the landscape as they are shooting, it would be impossible. I think it is highly likely that the guy walked up while the dog was at a point into an area Cheney aldready had cleared while Cheney was focused on the birds that are about to flush.

Go try a quail hunt and then come back to discuss it with an informed opinion. Without the presumption of a cleared shooting area, quail hunting is impossible.

Cal

calus, you said: "Go try a quail hunt and then come back to discuss it with an informed opinion."

My informed opinion is that you aren't supposed to ever shoot a fellow hunter, and if you do, it will most likely be considered an accident, but it is still going to be your fault for pulling the trigger when someone was in your line of fire. If you are going to swing around, and shoot a bird that has flown outside of your original field of vision, then you had best make sure that there isn't anyone standing in the way, and a presumption that there won't be anyone in the way, doesn't hold any water in this argument at all. That word presumption in this argument, is, as I said before, ludricous.

Rumors are that the NRA is requesting that Cheney return the rifle that they presented to him; they don't want their name associated with him anymore.

 

[Buzz Mills]

Oh I agree and there are a lot of punks out there but they aren't hunters. That's the distinction.

Kind of like saying every woman in CA has implants and is an actress. While CA has it's share, it is unfair to charcterize everyone as being that.

Cal

Hunters are nothing more than a cross section of the population. They come in all sorts of colors, flavors, and dispositions. Not any better, or worse, than the rest of humanity.

 

[calus_3]

Not any better, or worse, than the rest of humanity.

Hey Buzz, come hang out with me and my friends at hunting camp and you will see that we are, in fact, better than the rest of society. Heck, we probably won't even shoot you (accidentally or on purpose).

I always wondered that if you shoot your wife or husband, do you violate the 'do not pull the trigger until you verify your target' rule?

Cal

 

[j2mirish]

What about Hillary's accident?

http://newsmax.com/archives/ic/2006/2/13/131728.shtml?s=ic

That is telling and even I didn't hear about this until today.

Cal

Perhaps if SHE was driving, we would have

 

[calus_3]

Perhaps if SHE was driving, we would have

I'm not thinking so.....

Cal

 

[scandi]

I think is is a bunch of big bunk that the public was held off in learning about this for 22 hours!

I just heard Chris Matthews who is going to go with the flow for now that the reason for this was they were first concerned about the well being of Mr Whittingham! Gees, like how long could that take?

But he did go on to say if anyone gets shot with 100 or so pellets in the face , even though they are small pellets, there is going to be a lot of blood and they probably just wanted to see how serious it was really going to be before letting it out of the bag!

Now I'm ticked off that Matthews is going to placate the White House Press!


Scandi

 

[Marine Mom]

I always wondered that if you shoot your wife or husband, do you violate the 'do not pull the trigger until you verify your target' rule?

Cal

A wife & husband go hunting. Wife pulls a white hanky out to wipe her nose. Hubby shoots her in the face.

My question is...if it had been an actual deer, would he have shot it in the azz?

I've heard of this same scenario happening several times.

 

[calus_3]

A wife & husband go hunting. Wife pulls a white hanky out to wipe her nose. Hubby shoots her in the face.

My question is...if it had been an actual deer, would he have shot it in the azz?

I've heard of this same scenario happening several times.

You hit on one of my biggest pet peeves as a deer hunter.....

In deer hunting (wingshooting is a different story) there is absolutely no reason that someone should or could shoot another person. You are exactly right....if he shot her then he wasn't aiming for a kill zone and hadn't identified his target. He should go to jail. Wingshooting is a different story though entirely.

We have a few of those in GA every year and it ends up with some whining pseudo-hunter saying "it was an accident". Well, yeah you probably didn't plan on murdering anyone but it was no accident.

We have entirely too many people shooting at bushes moving or sounds. One kid shot his girlfriend right through her hunter orange vest...how he did that, I will NEVER know.

Cal

 

[close_enough]

I think is is a bunch of big bunk that the public was held off in learning about this for 22 hours!
I just heard Chris Matthews who is going to go with the flow for now that the reason for this was they were first concerned about the well being of Mr Whittingham! Gees, like how long could that take?

But he did go on to say if anyone gets shot with 100 or so pellets in the face , even though they are small pellets, there is going to be a lot of blood and they probably just wanted to see how serious it was really going to be before letting it out of the bag!

Now I'm ticked off that Matthews is going to placate the White House Press!


Scandi

i agree....did you happen to see the press conference??...the press gave McClellan (sp) a hard way to go...they pressed him hard for reasons why it took so long to tell the public....he didn't have much of a reason either except the priority was to make sure Whittington was taken care of...(medical assistance was there when it happened).....McClellan said he found out at 6 am Sunday morning, & apparently urged "them" to put the story out ASAP....then the press really pressed him for a reason why a private citizen would be the one to report the news, instead of the VP's office......a couple of talking heads said it almost comes across as if there were thoughts to cover up the story...."seemingly coverup"....

 

[scandi]

Yes Close_enough, I watched it and I was so proud of the corp for digging in! It is absolutely ridiculous that our executive part of the government is so sneaky, and yes, I call that sneaky to put off letting the public know for 2 hours short of one whole day!

There was a lot of blood evidently, or I don't think Matthews would have stated this, even though he used the word probably. He might have had a tip. So I think they were running scared and thus waited till they knew the old gent was OK.

It happened on Sat night they said, so to keep a guy in the hospital for 2 days because of buckshot says it was more serious than they let on. The chance of infection is always there, even though he is in stable condition. I bet he looks an absolute mess and has a big bandage on his head and right upper torso - think it was his right side that got sprayed.

You know close_enough, if this incident and the :chicken: -chit way they responded to it does anything to prompt more law makers to think of gettin' that guy out of the White House, then let it be the reason it happened at all! It could be destiny's way of moving things forward, although of course I would never wish Mr Whittingham or any other hunter standing next to the VP, any harm! LOL

Scandi

 

[scandi]

I'm really disgusted now! Evidently the hospital and Whittinghams doctors have gotton the word from someone , bucause at the news conference everyone of the men there talked about how many trauma cases they get like this.

So what! The trauma in this case was caused by the second highest leader of our land!

Scandi

 

[Reader]

Let's just let Dubya explain it to us:

"We look forward to analyzing and working with legislation that will make—it would hope—put a free press's mind at ease that you're not being denied information you shouldn't see."
—Washington, D.C., April 14, 2005

Maybe this is why the news was a little late in coming out?
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"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."—Washington, D.C., Aug. 5, 2004 (Thanks to Alicia Butler.)

Well, you know Mr. Whittington is one of "our people" now!
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"Just remember it's the birds that's supposed to suffer, not the hunter."—Advising quail hunter and New Mexico Sen. Pete Domenici, Roswell, N.M., Jan. 22, 2004

I guess Cheney missed this hunting lecture, along with calus_3.
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"See, in my line of work you got to keep repeating things over and over and over again for the truth to sink in, to kind of catapult the propaganda."—Greece, N.Y., May 24, 2005

Let's keep repeating it now until we got it right: accident, accident, accident, accident..........