Allison Baden-Clay, GENERAL CASE DISCUSSION THREAD -#31

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Morning troops :)

Just reading how some are wondering why certain people are not here - but I claim exception to the "always here" premise, as I do have - er - other responsibilities.

And sometimes I check and read without the opportunity to post anything. So longish gaps between question and answer may happen.

Will be pretty busy today, but checking the threads from time to time, so no whispering behind my back... ;)

We wouldn't do that to you Doc but if you have seen or heard of Watsonian Institute would you send him back here thanks! :)
 
I agree. Some families just work out of a sense of control and to step outside those rules has bad results.

If they believe their son is innocent why aren't they screaming it from the rooftops IMO?

I know that all families are different but what have they got to hide? Errrr oh that's right a phone call in the middle of the night!

What never ceases to amaze me is that people think they can lie to QPS and get away with it!! How foolhardy is that?

It just all smacks of a big cover up to me (i.e. that the family know something went awry) MOO etc

Did I read that the NBCs were moving things out of the house on Allison's birthday?
probably Marni. they wouldnt have any sentiment about that. just another day , business as usual
 
Oh Mani, now we're all in tears thinking of a frozen Kate Winslet croaking out 'come back' to the rescue boat....and will be humming the theme to Titanic on account of that flare you've sent up!!

But I miss those AWOL too! Sometimes 'life' just gets in the way doesn't it (she says..... as a mountainous pile of unfolded washing slowly topples to engulf her......) *muffled voice due to sock in mouth* Come baaaaaaack

You are one of the comic relief on here Wozzle - ever thought of going into script writing!!!??? :floorlaugh:

Willough and Minni and Greg are on the stage with you and Possumheart is throwing dry humour from the wings!!! LOL
 
I feel like I'm hogging the board!

Thanks 'Dodo' (that's actually what 'Wozzle' means - my current (!) hubby calls me this because he thinks I'm a bit of a 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬, but in the warmest most affectionate way! One of my bosses in years gone by told me I was 'eccentric' and when I exclaimed: Do you really think so? she replied: either that, or you've got a personality disorder!!) Dodo actually PM'd me saying she didn't really want to know....but how many husband's am I up to now? Hehehehehe. I am on my third....and not planning on any more (but then I've said that twice before, haven't I??!!)

Thinking about Allison's and GBCs relationship and all that's been shared here with regard to others experiences, despite the fact I've been married three times, I have been married to gentle, decent, honest and faithful men (at least as far as I know!) Marriages fail for all sorts of reasons but mine I guess would be due to the old 'irreconcilable differences'....we all grow and change and have different needs as we get older, and if partners don't 'grow' in the same direction, then it's better to part ways (unlike a certain failed real estate agent who wanted his cake and ate it too!) I only had one child and have always worked full time and thus been completely independent, so my divorces haven't been difficult for me. However even just the smallest 'hint' of DV can have a traumatic effect on kids.

I think often of what Allison's girls may have witnessed over the years, and how this might affect them through their lives. Before I did nursing I was a secretary in the Department of Psychiatry and Behavioural Science at a Children's Hospital, and what I learned there seemed to fly in the face of reason and common sense. The parents who sexually abused their children, had often been sexually abused themselves!! Even if intellectually we know as adults something is 'wrong', if you've grown up in an environment where something is prevalent, be it sexual abuse or DV or whatever, it becomes something deeply embedded in your psyche - a part of you unable to be shaken although you know in your adult mind it isn't 'right'. How many women who are products of families with DV go on to choose partners who are also violent....sometimes over and over again. I hope Allison's girls can model their expectations on their grandparents' relationship (I wonder how many times they've seen both NBC's and GBC's tempers flare).

Fuskier I sense that you might be a psychologist, so you'll know how best these girls can be healed. I actually have a Psychology degree, which I did as a 'hobby' in my 30s (nursing wasn't a degree when I trained and I wanted to exercise my academic chops!) so I am like Allison...got the degree without taking it further to become a psychologist. (And unfortunately I also have something in common with GBC in that my degree was from the University of Southern Qld in Toowoomba where GBC got his!....how SO very 'GBC' for him to put USQ on his CV rather than the DDIAE as it was at the time - an 'institute of advanced eduction' just obviously didn't have the same 'ring' to it, did it GBC? - poseur extraordinaire!)

But back to the point I was going to make re children and DV - I've only ever been 'hit' once - 2nd husband thought I was having an affair (I wasn't) as he'd found a pair of 'unfamiliar' undies in his drawer. We did a lot of boating and these jocks were obviously from one of his buds that had got caught up in the wash...but he wouldn't/couldn't accept this. I was studying at the time and did English Lit for all my electives, and he had picked up a book of Australian poetry where I'd underlined 'She knew she had married the wrong man' for an essay, and of course he thought this was a message to HIM. He was beside himself (?paranoid from too much marijuana) and gave me a backhand across the mouth which split my lip. In 16 years he'd never been the slightest bit aggressive, and I actually thought nothing of it, as he was traumatized and I don't think he even recalled doing it. However my daughter was home at the time and saw the bleeding lip, and this incident signalled the end of the marriage and he moved out shortly after (not because I asked him to, it was coming to this anyhow). Years and years later, my daughter showed me an essay she had written for high school for which she'd got the highest mark she'd ever achieved (she was a lazy little so and so!) To my horror, she told a 'story' of the end of a couple's relationship, and it was a complete and accurate reproduction of all the events of that particular day. I couldn't believe it! ONE incident in an otherwise harmonious family had stayed with her all these years....and I was further horrified when she saw a psychologist when applying for the army, told her of her confusion about her sexuality, and the psychologist told her she had issues with 'men' because of her parents' relationship. OMG. How do I fix this? I can't of course, but remembering this makes me think of Allison's girls and what they may have been subjected to and how much of this is ingrained in THEIR psyches. It's a hard and thankless job being a parent (you always love them, but you don't always 'like' them, as one of my mother in laws said to me!)

Oh for the conciseness of Hawkins....not in me I'm afraid! Succinct I am not! My love and best wishes go out to H, S and E - every mother has you in their heart, and I am gathering you in my arms for a Curiousasacat bear hug....even if it's a 'cyber' one! :grouphug: (That's H, S, E, Mrs Dickie and me, hugging!)

whheeew!! I seriously think ole Chris Nyst should bypass GBC for that book and movie opportunity and come straight to 'wozzle'. Would think your life story would be a bestseller for sure - can imagine the number of sticky situations you have talked yourself out of!:floorlaugh: Seriously though, thank you for your insightful posts, all tinged with that special brand of humour we have all come to love. Actually, perhaps a reality show would be better than a feature movie, now just to come up with a name for it........
 
On 16th July Lloyd Rayney's trial begins. He somehow got bail after being charged with the murder of his wife Corryn. Part of the reasoning for bail being given was the accused's need to prepare his defence. I wonder if the 3 amigos have been hired by GBC to put forward a second appeal for bail on the grounds that preparing a case with such limited access to their client (one visit a week) is insufficient access.

His arrest was made 3 years after his wife was murdered (in 2007) and he was released on bail after 2 weeks. This is going to be a very interesting trial - he has opted for a Judge only trial I believe.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/murder-accused-barrister-lloyd-rayney-gets-bail/story-e6frg6nf-1225975625892

I don't think GBC has a hope in hell of getting out on bail, not after the Judge's comments at the bail hearing... & I can't see how any of this will change.

June 22, 2012

However Justice Boddice dismissed the application, stating that strong ties to the community were not unusual.

He said the prospect of a mandatory life sentence – the penalty in Queensland if found guilty of murder - was “a powerful incentive not to appear” for trial.

And while Mr Baden-Clay had not “sought to flee despite intense media attention” in the lead-up to his arrest, he had now been charged with murder and had been in custody since.

Justice Boddice said Mr Baden-Clay’s ties to the community, his obligation to his daughters and his obligations to his business must be balanced against “the real risk of mandatory life imprisonment” and what that might mean to a person.

“The applicant is facing the real risk of mandatory life imprisonment, flight is a real possibility, a real possibility,” he said.

“Although he may have property and other work relationship ties with Queensland, that is not an unusual factor and would not necessarily prevent flight of someone determined to abscond because of fear of a lengthy prison sentence.”

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...denied-bail-20120622-20s73.html#ixzz1zngmJeBS
 
Aaah...the judge only trial.

They were introduced mainly to facilitate trials in very long or complicated cases where the the evidence is not likely to be understood by a jury. E.g complex fraud and corporate crime. They can also be used if the court believes that a juror may have an offence committed against them (tampering, violence, bribery etc) or of the court believes that the pre trial publicity would preclude an impartial jury. These last two points are very rare. Max Sica failed in his bid for a judge only trial and there was alot of pre trial publicity in that case.

http://legalstudiesqld.com.au/blog/...iminal-code-judge-only-trials-no-jury-orders/

Both prosecution and defence can ask for a judge only trial but in the end it is the court that makes the decision.


Unlikely this case would get a judge only trial. IMO but stranger things have happened.


(Jumps off soap box.....)

IMO.....i highly doubt GBC is going to stand up and plead guilty....I don't think he will EVER plead anything other than NOT guily until his dying day... so I'm thinking that the last thing he would want is a Judge Only trial......IMO he will want to roll the dice with all 12 jurors having to decide the outcome

but you never know......as ActusReus says, stranger things have happened
 
IMO.....i highly doubt GBC is going to stand up and plead guilty....I don't think he will EVER plead anything other than NOT guily until his dying day... so I'm thinking that the last thing he would want is a Judge Only trial......IMO he will want to roll the dice with all 12 jurors having to decide the outcome

but you never know......as ActusReus says, stranger things have happened

What we don't know at this stage is whether there's any more evidence against him. GBC may now know though...so depending on that, if there's some very strong evidence against him & there's no way out of it, he may feel cornered & have no other choice than to plead guilty.

That's what I like to think but his rounding up three lawyers doesn't suggest that will be the case.
 
I've been thinking about Olivia Walton and her behaviour since day one, and that of the parents. I wonder what she knew/thought, what she thinks now, (since the bail hearing) and whether she now thinks Gerard (and maybe her father or even mother) were responsible for Allison's death and cover-up.

If I try and put myself in the same situation, if someone in my family had been murdered and another family member/s was refusing to cooperate with police and give what could be crucial info, I would be sooo angry and disgusted. I just could not support that one iota, and I feel I'd just want to disassociate myself from them, quite possibly forever.

Of course it's possible that she thought Gerard was innocent (maybe she still does), but I wonder now with the knowledge of the facetime call to NBC (if she didn't know of that already) how she feels about it all now.

I feel really sorry for her children, it must be dreadful for them. So unfair :(

I have wondered this too Laura. To me, she looked very shocked and numb walking out of that bail hearing. Shock that bail denied, or shock about some of the stuff alleged that has made her put two and two together?
 
What we don't know at this stage is whether there's any more evidence against him. GBC may now know though...so depending on that, if there's some very strong evidence against him & there's no way out of it, he may feel cornered & have no other choice than to plead guilty.

That's what I like to think but his rounding up three lawyers doesn't suggest that will be the case.

true....there is always that possibility and I would like to follow that thought... but my gut feeling is he will proclaim innocence for a loooong time

I also wonder about the three lawyers.......maybe a spot of some "ambulance chasing" going on there (a highly unethical practice of lawyers going knocking on potential clients doors)....just saying

Edited to add.....nup, no matter just what and how much evidence there is against him right now he is sitting in a remand facility arrested for murder and interfereing with a corpse (his wife) ..... awaiting a committal mention. What are his options? (not many, but he has two that i can see)

1. Plead guilty and be done with it. Outcome - Immediately get a change of address for a very long time, no get outta jail free option with this plea; OR
2. Plead Not Guilty - outcome - sit in a remand centre for a year or two...take chances with a trial of 12 jurors and highly regarded defence team up against equally highly regarded prosecution team.....possible outcome - he could be acquitted, all charges dropped, out of jail and he moves on, also the other side, is found guilty at trial.....appeals the finding, wins appeal in his favour..........and wallahh ----out of jail again
 
Things seem to have gone quiet on the accomplice/accessory front. I haven't seen anything reported lately.

I hope this hasn't proven a stumbling block for investigators........would hate to see someone get away with such behaviour.
 
true....there is always that possibility and I would like to follow that thought... but my gut feeling is he will proclaim innocence for a loooong time

I also wonder about the three lawyers.......maybe a spot of some "ambulance chasing" going on there (a highly unethical practice of lawyers going knocking on potential clients doors)....just saying
he will never plead guilty MOO thats why so many lawyers me thinks. if one dumps him he can grab another JMO
 
Bump

Did I read that the NBCs were moving things out of the house on Allison's birthday?
 
he will never plead guilty MOO thats why so many lawyers me thinks. if one dumps him he can grab another JMO

hi squizzey, yep I edited my post to add my thoughts why IMO he will never plead guilty
 
Bump

Did I read that the NBCs were moving things out of the house on Allison's birthday?

Mani, there was a story and pic in Sunday's courier mail about them moving things out of the house....but the story being published in sunday's paper would mean the pic was taken the day before (saturday 30th) so Im assuming they did the moving on the saturday??
 
true....there is always that possibility and I would like to follow that thought... but my gut feeling is he will proclaim innocence for a loooong time

I also wonder about the three lawyers.......maybe a spot of some "ambulance chasing" going on there (a highly unethical practice of lawyers going knocking on potential clients doors)....just saying

Edited to add.....nup, no matter just what and how much evidence there is against him right now he is sitting in a remand facility arrested for murder and interfereing with a corpse (his wife) ..... awaiting a committal mention. What are his options? (not many, but he has two that i can see)

1. Plead guilty and be done with it. Outcome - Immediately get a change of address for a very long time, no get outta jail free option with this plea; OR
2. Plead Not Guilty - outcome - sit in a remand centre for a year or two...take chances with a trial of 12 jurors and highly regarded defence team up against equally highly regarded prosecution team.....possible outcome - he could be acquitted, all charges dropped, out of jail and he moves on, also the other side, is found guilty at trial.....appeals the finding, wins appeal in his favour..........and wallahh ----out of jail again
dont like number 2 much
 
There are a few people MIA from here lately - I miss WI - where is he?

I miss his funny Latin comments and there are a few other members who haven't joined in on the conversations for a while.

Come back WI :)

:fireworks: Sending up a flare!

I haven’t been around as much as I am an accountant and it is “that” time of the year. Also my dear old Nan is in the hospital and I have been visiting her after work. Those of you that have read my story know that my darling Nan took me in when I was an infant after my father murdered my mother and raised me as her own. She is an amazing woman and is a strong as a bull but at her age she is living on borrowed time, she wants to go home so she can have a scotch lol.

Some people here know my hubby is a Detective and the case he is working on has kept him away from home for a lot of hours over the last couple of months. Now things have settled down there he is back home in the evenings and weekends so I need to spend time with him when he is around.

It will be interesting to see what Monday brings with the hearing.
 
dont like number 2 much

how about this scenario

1. Plead guilty, :jail: immediately ... for a very long time
2. Plead Not Guilty - go to trial - get found guilty of all charges, maximum sentence applied - go to :jail: for very long time but then...
Both verdict and sentence are appealed....appeal finds in favour of both verdict and sentence - back to jail goes GBC for a long time

that's my personal favourite right now....but you have to keep your mind open to all possibilities in this game
 
I haven’t been around as much as I am an accountant and it is “that” time of the year. Also my dear old Nan is in the hospital and I have been visiting her after work. Those of you that have read my story know that my darling Nan took me in when I was an infant after my father murdered my mother and raised me as her own. She is an amazing woman and is a strong as a bull but at her age she is living on borrowed time, she wants to go home so she can have a scotch lol.

Some people here know my hubby is a Detective and the case he is working on has kept him away from home for a lot of hours over the last couple of months. Now things have settled down there he is back home in the evenings and weekends so I need to spend time with him when he is around.

It will be interesting to see what Monday brings with the hearing.
oh what a hell of an early life. glad things are better for u now:woohoo: can u say what detective hubby thinks about this. understand if u cant
 
I haven’t been around as much as I am an accountant and it is “that” time of the year. Also my dear old Nan is in the hospital and I have been visiting her after work. Those of you that have read my story know that my darling Nan took me in when I was an infant after my father murdered my mother and raised me as her own. She is an amazing woman and is a strong as a bull but at her age she is living on borrowed time, she wants to go home so she can have a scotch lol.

Some people here know my hubby is a Detective and the case he is working on has kept him away from home for a lot of hours over the last couple of months. Now things have settled down there he is back home in the evenings and weekends so I need to spend time with him when he is around.

It will be interesting to see what Monday brings with the hearing.

Sorry to hear about your Nan Bayside, i hope she gets home to have that scotch
 
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