Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #33

[linette]

Thanks Marly. I don't know what happened there but that quote is not my quote. That's DoctorWatson's quote that I was quoting. WS went squew-iff as I posted my message so that may have something to do with it. :waitasec:

I'm so confused. :floorlaugh:

Yeah, I think it was Dr Watson's post, not yours.

 

[minni]

The way I'm seeing it is...the journo probably did get a looky at the original police map & has copied the route onto her own map.

The Kenmore roundabout could have been used on the return trip to drop the daddy off??

Yes, I strongly believe that regardless of whether or not this is the route that was taken to get Allison out there, He/they drove through KV at least once and possibly several times throughout the night.

But I dont believe this is proof that he took this route, when you pick apart the words, it doesnt say anything I think.

Sorry to pick this great find apart, of course, its only my thoughts and actually, I'm likely to be wrong, and I hope you have found another piece of the puzzle Marly

 

[marlywings]

First time posting on this case but have been hooked on reading through all your sleuthing from the beginning.

The one thing that really bothers me about this case is the absolute lack of evidence save for the circumstantial. I am as certain as one can be with said circumstantial evidence that it was GBC, but will the jury be able to prove beyond reasonable doubt that this man is guilty of murder? History has provided many examples of cases that have not quite hit the benchmark (OJ Simpson, the Caylee Anthony case in the US) for a murder conviction and I know that if I was on a jury with the information there is about this case (thus far) I don't know if I could convict this man completely beyond reasonable doubt of his guilt. For example, the fact that her body was found with only a chipped tooth? That there remains no evidence of GBC's movement around where the body was found? It's very puzzling, and strange that what seemed like a very heat of the moment killing has left so little in its wake.

Apologies if I have missed anything that discredits what I said – I have been reading as diligently as possible but am sure to have missed a few things!

Hi graceholl & welcome...I think there's loads more evidence to come, especially from forensics....phones, computers, hair sample, autopsy......prosecutor didn't have to show all evidence at the bail hearing, just enough to keep him behind bars....just my opinion.

 

[Strangeworld]

First time posting on this case but have been hooked on reading through all your sleuthing from the beginning.

The one thing that really bothers me about this case is the absolute lack of evidence save for the circumstantial. I am as certain as one can be with said circumstantial evidence that it was GBC, but will the jury be able to prove beyond reasonable doubt that this man is guilty of murder? History has provided many examples of cases that have not quite hit the benchmark (OJ Simpson, the Caylee Anthony case in the US) for a murder conviction and I know that if I was on a jury with the information there is about this case (thus far) I don't know if I could convict this man completely beyond reasonable doubt of his guilt. For example, the fact that her body was found with only a chipped tooth? That there remains no evidence of GBC's movement around where the body was found? It's very puzzling, and strange that what seemed like a very heat of the moment killing has left so little in its wake.

Apologies if I have missed anything that discredits what I said – I have been reading as diligently as possible but am sure to have missed a few things!

Welcome!! We simply don't have access to all the evidence the prosecution and police have gathered. I am 100% positive that they did not arrest him without a solid case - I have no doubt more details will come out when the case goes to court.

Also, many murders and other crimes happen where the person was not seen at the crime scene, was not seen committing the act, etc, but a conviction is possible even with circumstantial evidence. I personally believe, even on the little we know so far, that the evidence would be strong enough to stand up to any jury. Guess it really comes down to what evidence is allowed to be presented in the court, what members are retained in the jury, and how good a job the prosecution and defense both do.

 

[pulpfiction]

Hi. Just trying to catch up quickly after a busy day

 

[minusfour]

Further to the possiblity of ricen poisoning, (bit behind, I know), Ann Rule wrote a book about a woman who was found guilty of attempted murder of her husband, (who was a cardiologist Dr Watson!), by tampering with her food. ("Bitter Harvest", Warner books, 1998) He had several "episodes" of catastrophic illness, which he survived, and the poison was identified when he found some of the seeds in her handbag. (He had developed antibodies to ricen) Sadly the same woman went on to murder two of their three children by burning their house down before she was charged with the attempted murders.

In the Gonzales family murders, Sef Gonzales was convicted of murdering his parents and sister in Sydney, (2001,) and at his trial, his internet research into ricen, and his cultivation of a plant in the family back yard helped to establish premeditation. (Unmasked: The Gonzales Family Killer, Kara Lawrence, HarperCollins 2006)

 

[minni]

It also states in that same report...


He has also been charged with interfering with her body, by moving her to the creek where she was found.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...d-badenclay-20120626-210bz.html#ixzz20mBBd1lR

Precisely Marly....this indicates THREE PLACES..the first map/report seems to indicate only two. I think that first report ONLY states where she was believed to be killed, and where she was found. NOT how they believe she got there.

Hope I am making sense here :waitasec:

 

[pulpfiction]

Mountainmist
Paul Tully is not regarded as a reliable source or MSM. He is an Ipswich counsellor who posts on his blog with his own opinions.

True. But Paul knows a LOT. Those in the know know that

 

[BJsleuth]

First time posting on this case but have been hooked on reading through all your sleuthing from the beginning.

The one thing that really bothers me about this case is the absolute lack of evidence save for the circumstantial. I am as certain as one can be with said circumstantial evidence that it was GBC, but will the jury be able to prove beyond reasonable doubt that this man is guilty of murder? History has provided many examples of cases that have not quite hit the benchmark (OJ Simpson, the Caylee Anthony case in the US) for a murder conviction and I know that if I was on a jury with the information there is about this case (thus far) I don't know if I could convict this man completely beyond reasonable doubt of his guilt. For example, the fact that her body was found with only a chipped tooth? That there remains no evidence of GBC's movement around where the body was found? It's very puzzling, and strange that what seemed like a very heat of the moment killing has left so little in its wake.

Apologies if I have missed anything that discredits what I said – I have been reading as diligently as possible but am sure to have missed a few things!

:welcome5: Graceholl

Ahh but the judge said the case was "LARGELY" circumstantial, which means that there must be some little bits of concrete evidence too.

 

[frustrated detective]

I wonder how much Allison herself knew of the "voluminous" financial mess created by GBC. Did he "manage" the family finances largely on his own?

The day-to-day care of three young children would leave little time for looking into those notorious finances (which even police accounting experts tell us will require several months to unravel.)

My guess is that Allison knew enough to be seriously concerned, but not the full extent of the situation. Even "the tip of the iceburg" knowledge would be enough to cause her enormous anxiety and fear.

And that is just finances ... living with the whole load of lies, betrayal and debt would be enough to unsettle even the most balanced personality.

I imagine Allison had much of the strength and dignity that her own parents have shown under terrible pressure. Those last months of her life must have been so incredibly hard for her.

 

[KG1]

Don't be too hard on TM, she may turn out to be a quasi-heroine in this crime. We had a highly publicized case in California called the Lacy Peterson case. This case reminds me of it often. The husband-perp had a mistress named Amber Frey and she became the star witness. Amber secured the husband's spot on death row.

I've read that book about Amber, Kimster. Yes, she was a wholly decent person and a very brave one and her evidence secured his conviction. She never even knew he was married, from my recollection.

 

[marlywings]

Precisely Marly....this indicates THREE PLACES..the first map/report seems to indicate only two. I think that first report ONLY states where she was believed to be killed, and where she was found. NOT how they believe she got there.

Hope I am making sense here :waitasec:

Again that same report...


Mr Baden-Clay reported his wife missing through a triple-0 call on April 20. The 41-year-old real estate agent has since been charged with Mrs Baden-Clay's murder at their Brookfield home on April 19


http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...d-badenclay-20120626-210bz.html#ixzz20mEeoWfz

 

[Rational]

Marly, you are one great super sleuth. :rocker: I missed that map as well. There is no mention at all of the Kenmore roundabout. :waitasec: I initially thought that this may have been an earlier article and map published about the case and was later negated as further information came to light about the Kenmore roundabout route. The date of this article is the 27 June, so it's quite recent.

The pennies are dropping at a 54321 pace. :what:

MOO.

:gasp:

 

[pulpfiction]

Just to pose another thought....

Let's just assume for a minute that GBC did NOT do it. But knows who did...

Who would he go to jail for? Who would he be protecting?

Maybe the common assumption is back to front? Maybe the other person did the deed (still don't know the why, how, where, when), and then GBC was the one who "tidied up" afterwards.

Who would he have such strong ties to that he would protect him or her by saying nothing? NBC? TM?

Just putting another possibility out there.....

And maybe the scratches etc were the result of him doing the Kholo Creek thing, but not due to Allison scratching at all?

Just idle musing here while I have a short break....

no problem suggesting this but you have to go back to MMO. What motive are you suggesting then? That he is guilty of soliciting or conspiring to murder....but then she ends up dead? That it was a hitman he hired? Who/why would anyone else have motive to hurt Allison? Only the mistresses I'd say & I don't see him have motive to protect them. Elaborate if you please

 

[linette]

:gasp:

I gotta laugh at that! :floorlaugh:

 

[marlywings]

:gasp:

Of all the emoticons...that one cracks me up...lol...& also possums "eyes"...lol.

 

[Makara]

:gasp:

 

[Rational]

Marly, you are one great super sleuth. :rocker: I missed that map as well. There is no mention at all of the Kenmore roundabout. :waitasec: I initially thought that this may have been an earlier article and map published about the case and was later negated as further information came to light about the Kenmore roundabout route. The date of this article is the 27 June, so it's quite recent.

The pennies are dropping at a 54321 pace. :what:

MOO.

Maybe the Kenmore roundabout wasn't about the actual car that dumped Allison's body but more to do with any possible accomplices' movement or in fact the sighting of GBC.

 

[graceholl]

Hi graceholl & welcome...I think there's loads more evidence to come, especially from forensics....phones, computers, hair sample, autopsy......prosecutor didn't have to show all evidence at the bail hearing, just enough to keep him behind bars....just my opinion.

Welcome!! We simply don't have access to all the evidence the prosecution and police have gathered. I am 100% positive that they did not arrest him without a solid case - I have no doubt more details will come out when the case goes to court.

Also, many murders and other crimes happen where the person was not seen at the crime scene, was not seen committing the act, etc, but a conviction is possible even with circumstantial evidence. I personally believe, even on the little we know so far, that the evidence would be strong enough to stand up to any jury. Guess it really comes down to what evidence is allowed to be presented in the court, what members are retained in the jury, and how good a job the prosecution and defense both do.

Thank you for the welcomes!

I think it will be really interesting to see what new evidence comes out during the trial.

I don't know if anyone followed the Joanna Yeates murder case in the UK - December 2010 and the trial was October 2011. The information that came out not only during the trial but afterwards was absolutely gobsmacking. I can only hope that such similar incriminating and 'beyond reasonable doubt' evidence will form the backbone of this trial - such a tragic, tragic case.

 

[Rational]

True. But Paul knows a LOT. Those in the know know that

Sure Pulp but not enough to take what he says as fact!