Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #37

[wakeskate]

Sorry, Wakeskate.. SES tape..
Ok - so it was off Wirrabarra - that service road area... thanks!

Yep, near the clearing just off wirrabara road.
If you follow the creek bed you will find the first one on the left side and it leads up in the small creek and the pipes.

 

[AAAA]

Here are #5 and 6. :seeya:

I can't see it Mani, can you help me out please??

 

[minni]

Well I was surprised that it had been left there as it could be washed into the creek and then create a problem as rubbish. MOO

Another member suggested it was used by canoeists, so I don't really know who/why it was put there but the photos didn't do it justice as there were two large pieces of material when we went. IMO

Wakeskate - there could be different material there now than when I was there and this photo doesn't do justice to the size of what was left there on the bank.

Absolutely, Mani, there was metres and metres of material on this steep embankment leading into the water, and this photo doesn't show that very well, it looks like much less than actually is there

 

[possumheart]

Murder is unique in that it abolishes the party it injures, so that society has to take the place of the victim and on his [or her] behalf demand atonement or grant forgiveness; it is the one crime in which society has a direct interest ...
W.H. Auden, 1907-1973

 

[Rational]

Murder is unique in that it abolishes the party it injures, so that society has to take the place of the victim and on his [or her] behalf demand atonement or grant forgiveness; it is the one crime in which society has a direct interest ...
W.H. Auden, 1907-1973

Hi Possum so true, but in this as in many cases there are multiple victims who are still very much alive and having to deal with the aftermath and impact!

 

[possumheart]

Hi Possum so true, but in this as in many cases there are multiple victims who are still very much alive and having to deal with the aftermath and impact!

Agreed. The stupid b*****d !

 

[minni]

I suppose if they took soil from under her body, it would still have left an indent which may have been built up again... but still leaving the mark there?

I know from my the holes by dog digs {Not deep ones, just ones he digs to keep himself warm or cool, more long than deep} that after a while the soil seems to naturally refill but you can still see where the hole/indent was originally.... especially after it has rained.

The photos look very much like what I'm talking about.

it would be hard to gather the soil for evidence if she had been underwater. It would still have been taken, especially the soil directly underneath her, but it would be difficult to find evidence if she was submerged?

If her body left an imprint in the mud.....it was only as old as the time it took for the tide to go out, then come back in before she would have moved again. Does this mean there would be no forensic evidence under her? If she washed down to here, I con't see how there could be any forensic evidence surrounding her or under her whatsoever

This mud clearly hold imprints for a very long time...the shoeprints are of the type you wear with a suit, a distinct heel, and a sole, NOT like a runner. so all these imprints are not from joe blow having a wander round. They are from the many detective and analysts and technicians scouring the bridge that day. So they are at least several months old,despite the tide coming over them again and again they still hold their shape.

 

[minni]

bumping a post here with some tide info


:bump:
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8196052&postcount=850"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #35[/ame]

 

[Mountain Misst]

I saw no police tape. It was SES tape marking what looked like a bread crumb trail to the pipes area.
There also appeared to be plaster in certain areas. Could be totally wrong, but the white substance appeared to be concentrated in a few areas, and looked like plaster.

The white stuff was probably agricultural lime. Non pollutant. It is used to mark out stuff like where pipes are or whatever for taking photos. Have used it myself to indicate underground trenches after they have been filled in and then take photos.

 

[possumheart]

The white stuff was probably agricultural lime. Non pollutant. It is used to mark out stuff like where pipes are or whatever for taking photos. Have used it myself to indicate underground trenches after they have been filled in and then take photos.

Lime also aids in decomposition and makes it less smelly.

 

[wakeskate]

There is a chance the body wouldn't have moved again if it was deposited from the storm surge rather than the natural high tide. Yeah water probably went around it but maybe not enough to float it again.

As for the foot prints, one would assume they are all left by gumboots.
Why an officer or detective would walk through in his uniform and good shoes is beyond me. Yes if they were chasing or saving someone, but not to inspect a crime scene. They would have all had gum boots on at the time (like the white ones in the video)

 

[minni]

There is a chance the body wouldn't have moved again if it was deposited from the storm surge rather than the natural high tide. Yeah water probably went around it but maybe not enough to float it again.

As for the foot prints, one would assume they are all left by gumboots.
Why an officer or detective would walk through in his uniform and good shoes is beyond me. Yes if they were chasing or saving someone, but not to inspect a crime scene. They would have all had gum boots on at the time (like the white ones in the video)

good point, and gum boots will give you a that same flat heel and sole impression. I do remember looking at the footage that day and seeing everyone in normal dress shoes!! but I must have been looking at the D's on the bridge, not under. ( I thought it was weird that they got there so quick they never considered better footwear!!)

just adding on here, I dont really know if gum boots would have ridgeless soles...In fact I thought they might have some sort of tread? not sure..maybe some do and some dont

 

[Rational]

There is a chance the body wouldn't have moved again if it was deposited from the storm surge rather than the natural high tide. Yeah water probably went around it but maybe not enough to float it again.

As for the foot prints, one would assume they are all left by gumboots.
Why an officer or detective would walk through in his uniform and good shoes is beyond me. Yes if they were chasing or saving someone, but not to inspect a crime scene. They would have all had gum boots on at the time (like the white ones in the video)

I agree Wakeskate that is what I feel may be the case. Allison's body was dislodged after awhile when all the gasses etc started to built up, coinciding around the time of the rain and surge. Her body ended up being deposited there and no tide was high enough to dislodge.

Also unless we know what the white boots look like and what imprints they leave, cannot comment. May need to do some more sleuthing!!

 

[Amee]

The gumboots at my backdoor have different soles, (patterned and flat) , some have a heel some dont.

Thanks Mani and Wakeskate for the photo's and all the effort you have gone too, Awesome Sleuthing

 

[wakeskate]

just adding on here, I dont really know if gum boots would have ridgeless soles...In fact I thought they might have some sort of tread? not sure..maybe some do and some dont

As someone who has spent a lot of time in gumboots walking round in similar mud (digging bait down in the mangroves when I was a kid), I can tell you that after about 2-3 steps you no longer have tread on your boots. They turn into about 1-2 inches of solid mud with no tread imprints under them.

 

[frustrated detective]

Lime also aids in decomposition and makes it less smelly.

Are you saying that perhaps the murderer covered the body in lime at that location?

 

[linette]

As someone who has spent a lot of time in gumboots walking round in similar mud (digging bait down in the mangroves when I was a kid), I can tell you that after about 2-3 steps you no longer have tread on your boots. They turn into about 1-2 inches of solid mud with no tread imprints under them.

Good point! I've had the same thing happen to me when we were doing the cleanup after the floods. Feet were so darn heavy I could barely lift my legs.

 

[minni]

As someone who has spent a lot of time in gumboots walking round in similar mud (digging bait down in the mangroves when I was a kid), I can tell you that after about 2-3 steps you no longer have tread on your boots. They turn into about 1-2 inches of solid mud with no tread imprints under them.

Thanks Wakeskate, and also Rational, for your opinions on the prints.....

SO these footprints could easliy be made by gumboots? I just want to verify that this mud is the type that is very sticky and holds imprints, even with water flowing over it again and again, and mostly I want to verify that these prints were left by the professionals there on 30th may when Allison was found.

I know that I sat there at the bridge and examined the area of mud in these photos, directly to the left of that roof tile, I sat there for a while and something was triggered, but I cant say what. I did notice immediately that it IS that type of mud, like mud flats etc, but I am no expert.

 

[wakeskate]

The white stuff was probably agricultural lime. Non pollutant. It is used to mark out stuff like where pipes are or whatever for taking photos. Have used it myself to indicate underground trenches after they have been filled in and then take photos.

Like most things, if you look hard enough you will probably find what you are looking for.
These patches of white were a fair distance from the pipes and in exposed areas of dirt.
Probably absolutely nothing to do with any of this, but they did look out of place.

As for the pipes, nothing had been done of those for years, so I doubt anyone had marked them out, and besides, these patches were 5 and 10 metres from the pipe down into the creek.

 

[possumheart]

Are you saying that perhaps the murderer covered the body in lime at that location?

I have wondered several times about lime. Interesting that it came up again.
Probably a coincidence.