Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #39

[Doidy]

I wonder if Allison went home after the hairdressers then SMS-Ed Kerry just prior to 8pm (I remember from MSM police saying Allison may have been murdered sometime after 8pm) wrt GBC I suspect he was with the girls at his parents place having dinner with OW (there were reports/rumors that OW was in town that week and in fact dropped the girls off at school on the Friday morning). This may explain Allison's alleged comment to hairdresser that she had the night off (ie from making dinner). Then GBC drive the girls home btw 829pm and 845pm (ie roughly time it would take to get from his parents house to their home (allowing for a goodbye chat as girls got settled in car - ie wld prob only take re 7 mins) Then neighbor's heard arguing at 10pm so perhaps that was when he killed her (after possibly dosing the girls so they slept thru - there was talk of him buying something from the chemist the Thursday morning). Then there was rumor that someone driving past house saw their car with all 4 doors open at about 11pm do perhaps GBC put poor Allison's body in the car then, Then he planned and decided he needed help at 1248am when he face timed his fathers phone. I think his mother answered the phone and knows everything and his father helped him dispose of much missed Allison. I think they prob did it early in the morning ie btw 3 and 4 hence the reports of 2 cars near kholo bridge acting strangely around 4am. This wld also fit in with the 148am phone recharging ie he knew not to take the phone with him so left it at home plugged in. The timeout or report of one of their cars driving erratically down Brookfield d around 11pm cld b explained by GBC panicking and trying to dispose of Allison's body on his own and then realizing he couldn't and returning home to ring his father FaceTime at 1230. Perhaps the odd thing at the roundabout was erratic driving then. Alternatively the odd thing could b picking up his father after 148am at the Rounabout. That's my thinking at the moment, I just pray for justice for allison and for strength and peace for her family in this traumatic time

 

[DrWatson]

Doc, that is interesting about your car charger being on all the time. My captiva charger doesn't do this, however it is a few years old. I will see what i can find out about the charger in the new series 11 captiva that the BC's had. This seems to be the relevant car as it is the one the police are holding as evidence due to the blood they found in it.

Morning Ali

Mine is a third-party, after-market bluetooth connector kit. Didn't come with the vehicle. When it was installed, the guy suggested wiring it constantly live so that I could still have hands-free conversations when the engine is turned off, plus the benefit of constant charging. And it draws so little current, that it doesn't flatten the vehicle battery. And of course it's only "live" when the phone is attached anyway.

I have no idea how the integrated ones in new vehicles would be wired, but I just raised that possibility to point out that turning the ignition off - POSSIBLY - may not have stopped the charging.

Having said that, I suspect you're right, and that the charging times relate to being put on the charger at home. My point was merely a possibility, not a probability..

 

[Fuskier]

... but in GBC's own text words he is saying that Allison had some app that he could see where she was. Maybe that was enough to for him to normally keep track of her whereabouts. She may or may not have known that app was on her phone. But why say those words in the text. ...

Exactly Alioop. In his own text words he refers to a tracking app on Alison's phone which would normally tell him her whereabouts: "...the app doesn't say either...". Good point. Unless, of course, he was not the author of that text.

 

[Amee]

Makara, whilst the prosecution don't have to reveal all the evidence for the bail hearing, they can't be misleading in what they do reveal. So if they say as we know they did, in the court brief that the last sighting of Allison by independent witnesses was at 6.30pm then that must be the situation as known to the police at the time of the bail hearing. So I think it doubtful that they could have verified any later sighting of Allison other than by any BC's. This statement only refers to sightings of Allison though, her car may have been seen later, or someone may have spoken to her, or been emailed or texted by her after 6.30pm.

Alioop I have searched and cant find the msm where it states ... the court brief that the last sighting of Allison by independent witnesses was at 6.30pm

I can only find where it says Allison left the hairdressers around 6.30pm. I posted the link a few days ago.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...d-badenclay-20120626-210bz.html#ixzz26tS4eIo6

 

[Fuskier]

I wonder if Allison went home after the hairdressers then SMS-Ed Kerry just prior to 8pm (I remember from MSM police saying Allison may have been murdered sometime after 8pm) wrt GBC I suspect he was with the girls at his parents place having dinner with OW (there were reports/rumors that OW was in town that week and in fact dropped the girls off at school on the Friday morning). This may explain Allison's alleged comment to hairdresser that she had the night off (ie from making dinner). Then GBC drive the girls home btw 829pm and 845pm (ie roughly time it would take to get from his parents house to their home (allowing for a goodbye chat as girls got settled in car - ie wld prob only take re 7 mins) Then neighbor's heard arguing at 10pm so perhaps that was when he killed her (after possibly dosing the girls so they slept thru - there was talk of him buying something from the chemist the Thursday morning). Then there was rumor that someone driving past house saw their car with all 4 doors open at about 11pm do perhaps GBC put poor Allison's body in the car then, Then he planned and decided he needed help at 1248am when he face timed his fathers phone. I think his mother answered the phone and knows everything and his father helped him dispose of much missed Allison. I think they prob did it early in the morning ie btw 3 and 4 hence the reports of 2 cars near kholo bridge acting strangely around 4am. This wld also fit in with the 148am phone recharging ie he knew not to take the phone with him so left it at home plugged in. The timeout or report of one of their cars driving erratically down Brookfield d around 11pm cld b explained by GBC panicking and trying to dispose of Allison's body on his own and then realizing he couldn't and returning home to ring his father FaceTime at 1230. Perhaps the odd thing at the roundabout was erratic driving then. Alternatively the odd thing could b picking up his father after 148am at the Rounabout. That's my thinking at the moment, I just pray for justice for allison and for strength and peace for her family in this traumatic time

Thank Doidy. This is a helpful summary which gets our minds going again. Hopefully Qpolice know more about Allison's movements after the hairdressers that we do. This is still a missing piece of the puzzle. Just to add it was alleged that two people were seen around a 4wd with all four doors open at around 11pm. Further, he had advanced knowledge of computing, tracking of phones etc. So it is possible that he knowingly left his phone on the charger and used another phone - maybe even Allison's. If so, it is likely that he ensured it could not be found because it contained some incriminating evidence. My opinion only, not fact.

 

[alioop]

That is interesting Ali, may I ask how you know that BC Captiva is a Series 11, with a Msm quote?

Berry I found a MSM link for you to see for yourself that the BC's captiva is a series 11.
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...llisons-murderer/story-e6freoof-1226368676196

If you look just under the side vision mirror you can see the series 11 badging.
Also the series 11 which was on sale from March 2011 changed the side vents which you can see in the photo. Also we know from MSM that the BC captiva was only a few weeks old and purchased new. For all those reasons I believe the BC's captiva is a series 11 captiva.

 

[bearbear]

Despite Mrs Baden-Clay being missing since Thursday night, Inspector Mark Laing said his team was still positive about finding her alive.

"From my perspective she is still alive,'' he said. "I do not believe she has met her demise. We have three specific search sites at Bellbowrie, Pullenvale and Kenmore Hills.' 'http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/search-to-resume-for-missing-brookfield-woman-allison-baden-clay/story-e6freoof-1226337500309

why would police say this if they suspected foul play and declared the home a crime scene from the first day?

also, i havent seen this video clip before, the scout camp is so isolated and vast, also notice it draws attention to the police canoeists, maybe one of them found allison. http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...rder-intensifies/story-e6freoof-1226345241012

does anyone know who informed police regarding allisons phone, msm stated police received new information regarding the phone whereabouts to an area close to her home, ive looked everywhere but cant find the news report.

 

[alioop]

Bearbear, thanks for putting that up. I wonder why they had those 3 specific search sites? That is interesting.

I think the police have to presume that Allison was alive though clearly they had big concerns for her safety. Maybe they were thinking she could have been still alive but was suffering serious injuries inflicted by GBC.

I always thought it was the phone provider that assisted police with triangulating the location of her phone.

 

[Liadan]

Glad to see this thread is moving again!

Going through these older posts about that blinkin roundabout and !wow! Amee has been right on the ball on this -even pre-dating some of our keenest sleuthers posts way back in thread 15. Makara mentioned this on the a recent thread Amee had picked it up on May 30th. Good work Amee that is stunning pick up. The link for Amees post re the video and post May 30th below.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7983325&postcount=556"]http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7983325&postcount=556[/ame]

There was an apparent sighting of Allison on the night of her disappearance at this roundabout. Sorry if this has been posted before.


http://au.news.yahoo.com/video/natio...time-narrowed/

And I think we are really getting confused about what footage we have seen and not seen because we were all aware of this back then but it has slipped through our detective minds. So great job Amee!

 

[Liadan]

Off topic, but this could give GBC ideas.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...-custody-of-kids/story-fndo1yus-1226478429179


A CONVICTED killer who strangled and stabbed his wife to death in the presence of their three small children is set to seek custody.

Showing my legal ignorance again here but wow I wonder if they are allowed to mention in this custody hearing that he was convicted and did time as he killed their mother - in some situations it would go towards bias and be held back. Not sure but the Sica case someof his prior conviction info was withheld from the jury so they would not be biased about the current situation. To me this is so wrong - it goes to prove he had it in him. He'd been convicted of rape before I think.

 

[FirstTimer]

The house at the coast sale has gone through. However, GBC will not see any of the procedes as Mr Dickie has temporary power of attorney of ABC's estate.

Cheers.

 

[alioop]

The house at the coast sale has gone through. However, GBC will not see any of the procedes as Mr Dickie has temporary power of attorney of ABC's estate.

Cheers.

Thanks FirstTimer, I thought the sale would go through. It must have been for around market value and my guess is to an independent buyer. Best to start separating Allison's assets from GBC's so her estate assets can be identified and then held by Mr Dickie as court appointed administrator pending outcome of the trial.

Until Mr Dickie has been able to establish Allison's assets and liabilities, then those sale proceeds after the mortgage was paid out will be held likely by a solicitor in a trust account. It may be that GBC will ultimately be entitled to some of those proceeds but I think that will take a while to ascertain. There will have to be agreement by all interested parties including any one with a beneficial entitlement such as Allison's family for the moneys to be released.

 

[alioop]

Showing my legal ignorance again here but wow I wonder if they are allowed to mention in this custody hearing that he was convicted and did time as he killed their mother - in some situations it would go towards bias and be held back. Not sure but the Sica case someof his prior conviction info was withheld from the jury so they would not be biased about the current situation. To me this is so wrong - it goes to prove he had it in him. He'd been convicted of rape before I think.

Liadan I would think that his conviction and circumstances of his wife's murder will be very relevant to any custody application and would be disclosed.

 

[Mountain Misst]

The house at the coast sale has gone through. However, GBC will not see any of the procedes as Mr Dickie has temporary power of attorney of ABC's estate.

Cheers.

Thanks FirstTimer, I thought the sale would go through. It must have been for around market value and my guess is to an independent buyer. Best to start separating Allison's assets from GBC's so her estate assets can be identified and then held by Mr Dickie as court appointed administrator pending outcome of the trial.

Until Mr Dickie has been able to establish Allison's assets and liabilities, then those sale proceeds after the mortgage was paid out will be held likely by a solicitor in a trust account. It may be that GBC will ultimately be entitled to some of those proceeds but I think that will take a while to ascertain. There will have to be agreement by all interested parties including any one with a beneficial entitlement such as Allison's family for the moneys to be released.

With the big chunk to St George for the mortgage - that went off the top - $300,000 I think, from memory, wasn't it. Then the legals and the commission, advertising for the auction and goodness knows what else squeezed out. Not much left.

 

[alioop]

Morning Ali

Mine is a third-party, after-market bluetooth connector kit. Didn't come with the vehicle. When it was installed, the guy suggested wiring it constantly live so that I could still have hands-free conversations when the engine is turned off, plus the benefit of constant charging. And it draws so little current, that it doesn't flatten the vehicle battery. And of course it's only "live" when the phone is attached anyway.

I have no idea how the integrated ones in new vehicles would be wired, but I just raised that possibility to point out that turning the ignition off - POSSIBLY - may not have stopped the charging.

Having said that, I suspect you're right, and that the charging times relate to being put on the charger at home. My point was merely a possibility, not a probability..

Thanks Doc, I didn't know that such an aftermarket thing was available to be wired into the charger. Be great for camping to charge the phone overnight. I dont think I will worry about researching about the series 11 captiva. As you say it is possible to do with something like you have. Even if there was constant charging by the car even if the ignition is off means that GBC would have to had left his phone in the car all night and taken it off the car charger at 6.18am. I think it more likely as you say too that it was on a charger at home.

 

[Doidy]

Despite Mrs Baden-Clay being missing since Thursday night, Inspector Mark Laing said his team was still positive about finding her alive.

"From my perspective she is still alive,'' he said. "I do not believe she has met her demise. We have three specific search sites at Bellbowrie, Pullenvale and Kenmore Hills.' 'http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/search-to-resume-for-missing-brookfield-woman-allison-baden-clay/story-e6freoof-1226337500309

why would police say this if they suspected foul play and declared the home a crime scene from the first

there was some discussion of this in an earlier thread which I think holds weight - tho I'm not a lawyer. People were saying that police have to b able to demonstrate at a future date shld there b a trial that they had held an open mind, explored all possible perpetrator theories rather than just assumed GBC did it. Thus they had to avoid a potential situation in which GBC's defense lawyers claimed biased police investigating as evidenced in police publicly stating from the start they suspected she had been murdered and that her husband had done it. In fact in WA at this week rayney's lawyers r using this very defence it appears, getting pathologists on the stand saying the police had advised them from the outset that 'they knew rayney did it'

 

[Thinking]

Morning Ali

Mine is a third-party, after-market bluetooth connector kit. Didn't come with the vehicle. When it was installed, the guy suggested wiring it constantly live so that I could still have hands-free conversations when the engine is turned off, plus the benefit of constant charging. And it draws so little current, that it doesn't flatten the vehicle battery. And of course it's only "live" when the phone is attached anyway.

I have no idea how the integrated ones in new vehicles would be wired, but I just raised that possibility to point out that turning the ignition off - POSSIBLY - may not have stopped the charging.

Having said that, I suspect you're right, and that the charging times relate to being put on the charger at home. My point was merely a possibility, not a probability..

Thanks DrW - I agree it is only a possibility but I do think the benefits of your device and the live wiring would be extremely handy to someone in the real estate industry who spends a great deal of time in their car and who rely heavily on their mobile phone for business (and shenanigans in certain people's case). I wonder if such a device with live wiring was installed. Only speculating.

 

[Bayside]

Glad to see this thread is moving again!

Going through these older posts about that blinkin roundabout and !wow! Amee has been right on the ball on this -even pre-dating some of our keenest sleuthers posts way back in thread 15. Makara mentioned this on the a recent thread Amee had picked it up on May 30th. Good work Amee that is stunning pick up. The link for Amees post re the video and post May 30th below.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7983325&postcount=556

There was an apparent sighting of Allison on the night of her disappearance at this roundabout. Sorry if this has been posted before.


http://au.news.yahoo.com/video/natio...time-narrowed/

And I think we are really getting confused about what footage we have seen and not seen because we were all aware of this back then but it has slipped through our detective minds. So great job Amee!

I forgot about that one, well spotted. Credit to original poster Amee too thanks.

 

[Radster]

why would police say this if they suspected foul play and declared the home a crime scene from the first day?

BearBear, this was my big question from day one, so much so that I phoned a police friend in Qld (who subsequently and coincidentally ended up being recruited to assist with the Brookfield search) and he said, not speaking about this case but generally, that even when the police strongly suspect a murder has taken place prior to a body being found, they must do an extensive and exhaustive search to satisfy a coroner down the track. So, bringing it back to this case, if Allison's body hadn't been found (ie no unlucky canoeist) then the police could have still pushed a murder case based on the fact that there is no conceivable possibility ABC could have walked away from her house that night and fallen down a hole anywhere within the vicinity of that home (as GBC allegedly told the children the next morning) because every single square foot of the area had been searched. The side benefit of this approach is the slow-burn on GBC. They thought he would crack (and the accident at Indrops certainly suggests he was close to it). Perhaps it was his parents and OW helping him keep it together? MOO.

 

[Radster]

Also, a query for phone-ophiles: if GBC, like 99% of real estate agents, automatically puts his phone on hands-free the minute he hops in his car, does this register as the phone "charging" or being "connected to a device"?

And my guess, given the nature of those texts sent to ABC's phone on Friday morning from GBC, is that GBC was all too aware about the capacity of phones to be tracked via GPS. There's no way he would have taken his own to Kholo Creek. If he took one at all, it must have been ABC's and I very much doubt the police ever found that phone. He would have made sure it was utterly destroyed and disposed of. I wonder if that's what the police were looking for in the Kenmore industrial dumpsters: phone remnants? MOO.