Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #39

[Fuskier]

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7983325&postcount=556"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 - #15[/ame]


IMO The reporter states that Allison may have been sighted at the roundabout at Mogill & Kenmore roads. There is no further information about the circumstances.

 

[marlywings]

Also, a query for phone-ophiles: if GBC, like 99% of real estate agents, automatically puts his phone on hands-free the minute he hops in his car, does this register as the phone "charging" or being "connected to a device"?

And my guess, given the nature of those texts sent to ABC's phone on Friday morning from GBC, is that GBC was all too aware about the capacity of phones to be tracked via GPS. There's no way he would have taken his own to Kholo Creek. If he took one at all, it must have been ABC's and I very much doubt the police ever found that phone. He would have made sure it was utterly destroyed and disposed of. I wonder if that's what the police were looking for in the Kenmore industrial dumpsters: phone remnants? MOO.

I'm not so sure about the phone being disposed of in industrial dumpsters as this report states it was in the area near the BC's house. Following this report I don't think there was ever a mention of it again so here's hoping police were able to locate it.

May 01, 2012

It is understood search crews were told the iPhone would be found in an area believed to be near the two neighbours and the Baden-Clay property itself.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...d-at-kholo-creek/story-e6freoof-1226343136675

 

[Sleuthis-maximus]

Hi everyone,

This is my first post. Like most people I have been following this case from the beginning. I feel so very much for Allison and her family.

I have lurked on these forums for a long time and there's some very interesting posts.

 

[alioop]

I'm

It is understood search crews were told the iPhone would be found in an area believed to be near the two neighbours and the Baden-Clay property itself.

You would hope that with such a small search area, if the triangulation was correct, that it would be found. Though if he disposed of it around the house or neighbours yards that wasn't very smart. Maybe it was a last minute thing when he realised he had to get rid of the phone but couldn't leave the house as the girls were waking up.

 

[alioop]

Hi everyone,

This is my first post. Like most people I have been following this case from the beginning. I feel so very much for Allison and her family.

I have lurked on these forums for a long time and there's some very interesting posts.

Welcome Sleuthis. Love your name. Any thoughts/ theories/info you would like to share? Fresh input would be fabulous.

 

[alioop]

Without wanting to discuss the children personally I was just wondering alioop, from a legal perspective - can children definitely be called as witnesses and if so, how much credence is their testimony given (speaking generally)?

Thinking, I believe that children can be called as witnesses in criminal proceedings and i found the attached link about an organisation called PACT ( protecting all children today) that helps children prepare and deal with giving evidence.
http://www.pact.org.au/services.html

With children their evidence is given in a private setting, not in a court room but I imagine it would still be a traumatic ordeal for the poor little things. PACT say they have volunteers who help to reduce the trauma. As to credibility, it depends on the particular child, their age, their memory of what happened and how they stand up to questioning and the clarity of their evidence. I doubt that a conviction would be made on the evidence of a child without any other evidence but as part of the overall evidence, it may be helpful.

 

[Thinking]

Also, a query for phone-ophiles: if GBC, like 99% of real estate agents, automatically puts his phone on hands-free the minute he hops in his car, does this register as the phone "charging" or being "connected to a device"?

And my guess, given the nature of those texts sent to ABC's phone on Friday morning from GBC, is that GBC was all too aware about the capacity of phones to be tracked via GPS. There's no way he would have taken his own to Kholo Creek. If he took one at all, it must have been ABC's and I very much doubt the police ever found that phone. He would have made sure it was utterly destroyed and disposed of. I wonder if that's what the police were looking for in the Kenmore industrial dumpsters: phone remnants? MOO.

I'd love to know what his reaction was when his lawyer broke the news about the police having evidence of the phone coming on and off the charger through the night. What on earth could he have possibly told his lawyer in response? His lawyer would know he is guilty as sin in my opinion.

 

[Thinking]

You would hope that with such a small search area, if the triangulation was correct, that it would be found. Though if he disposed of it around the house or neighbours yards that wasn't very smart. Maybe it was a last minute thing when he realised he had to get rid of the phone but couldn't leave the house as the girls were waking up.

I have no idea, but could be have smashed it to smithereens with a hammer or the like, at home? or run over it with the car? But then they mightn't have been able to triangulate it, right? From memory the police believed the phone was somewhere unknown, on - and the battery went dead.

 

[Berry]

Thanks DrW - I agree it is only a possibility but I do think the benefits of your device and the live wiring would be extremely handy to someone in the real estate industry who spends a great deal of time in their car and who rely heavily on their mobile phone for business (and shenanigans in certain people's case). I wonder if such a device with live wiring was installed. Only speculating.

This Captiva was his car originally, so perhaps it was fitted for real estate pretender like him.

Notice that he had the 'accident' in the white vehicle witnessed by a poster and her daughter, before Allsion missing.

Almost like he was giving her the Captiva to cover the inside with her prints etc bfore he used it for moving her as a corpse (sorry) on that evening.

Sure looks pre meditated to me, oh and he used an accomplice am sure, pre organised, on a 'secret payroll' which the BCs do hide in the labyrinth of Cos and Trusts etc.

 

[Thinking]

I wonder if Allison went home after the hairdressers then SMS-Ed Kerry just prior to 8pm (I remember from MSM police saying Allison may have been murdered sometime after 8pm) wrt GBC I suspect he was with the girls at his parents place having dinner with OW (there were reports/rumors that OW was in town that week and in fact dropped the girls off at school on the Friday morning). This may explain Allison's alleged comment to hairdresser that she had the night off (ie from making dinner). Then GBC drive the girls home btw 829pm and 845pm (ie roughly time it would take to get from his parents house to their home (allowing for a goodbye chat as girls got settled in car - ie wld prob only take re 7 mins) Then neighbor's heard arguing at 10pm so perhaps that was when he killed her (after possibly dosing the girls so they slept thru - there was talk of him buying something from the chemist the Thursday morning). Then there was rumor that someone driving past house saw their car with all 4 doors open at about 11pm do perhaps GBC put poor Allison's body in the car then, Then he planned and decided he needed help at 1248am when he face timed his fathers phone. I think his mother answered the phone and knows everything and his father helped him dispose of much missed Allison. I think they prob did it early in the morning ie btw 3 and 4 hence the reports of 2 cars near kholo bridge acting strangely around 4am. This wld also fit in with the 148am phone recharging ie he knew not to take the phone with him so left it at home plugged in. The timeout or report of one of their cars driving erratically down Brookfield d around 11pm cld b explained by GBC panicking and trying to dispose of Allison's body on his own and then realizing he couldn't and returning home to ring his father FaceTime at 1230. Perhaps the odd thing at the roundabout was erratic driving then. Alternatively the odd thing could b picking up his father after 148am at the Rounabout. That's my thinking at the moment, I just pray for justice for allison and for strength and peace for her family in this traumatic time

Doidy thank you for this - my thoughts are that this is probably quite close to what may have occurred that night. The only thing I think may be different is dosing the children - my feeling is that, whilst he may have fantasised about Allison being "out of the way" so to speak, I don't think this incident was planned for that particular night. This is why I worry so much about what the children may have heard. My thoughts at the moment (and I think about Allison a lot!) are that perhaps it was quite simply that GBC did not want Allison to go to that conference the next day (TM may have been applying pressure to this end too) - and argument escalated and Allison may have simply said (or shouted) "you can't stop me from going" and he saw red, lost control and thought "actually, yes I can". It was the result of years of slow rising temperature in the pressure cooker, and he just snapped. Then freaked out. Just my current thoughts anyway.

 

[Chief of Funtime]

Yes and or " I'm changing my life insurance policy tomorrow and you can't stop me "

 

[Berry]

Also remember the parents went to GBC house to recover something especially from a wardrobe....as heard on the grapevine

 

[they'll get you]

I have no idea, but could be have smashed it to smithereens with a hammer or the like, at home? or run over it with the car? But then they mightn't have been able to triangulate it, right? From memory the police believed the phone was somewhere unknown, on - and the battery went dead.

GBC may have thrown it in a (dry) drain & then couldn't retreive it because of the grate?

 

[they'll get you]

Yes and or " I'm changing my life insurance policy tomorrow and you can't stop me "

"We can't keep spending like this! We have to cut costs or we'll loose everything. We can start with our expensive insurance policies" Chief I think there would have been many fights of 'where is the money going?' & 'where are your commissions' apparently he was giving special treatment to TM.

 

[they'll get you]

Also remember the parents went to GBC house to recover something especially from a wardrobe....as heard on the grapevine

Maybe Allison's new Will??

 

[bearbear]

im really hoping the children didnt hear allisons death.
if he quietly drowned or suffocated her, and kept his hand over her mouth at least they wouldnt have heard her screaming, she obviously fought back scratching and kicking, but it probably happened in the bathroom or bedroom, and hopefully with the door shut.
its really upsetting to know they were there, but after an athletics day at school that day and possibly catching up with their cousins they were probably exhausted and not woken by the loud 10pm argument reported by neighbours.
also, they had probably learnt to sleep through the arguments.

im wondering if allison and gbc argued at home after the hair salon, with the girls at their grandparents for dinner? she could have been murdered then, and when gbc went to pick up the girls or they were dropped off, told them some strange story about their mother being out, and when they were asleep, the arguing at 10pm could have been gbc and a family member discussing what to do with allison?

 

[Doidy]

Doidy thank you for this - my thoughts are that this is probably quite close to what may have occurred that night. The only thing I think may be different is dosing the children - my feeling is that, whilst he may have fantasised about Allison being "out of the way" so to speak, I don't think this incident was planned for that particular night. This is why I worry so much about what the children may have heard. My thoughts at the moment (and I think about Allison a lot!) are that perhaps it was quite simply that GBC did not want Allison to go to that conference the next day (TM may have been applying pressure to this end too) - and argument escalated and Allison may have simply said (or shouted) "you can't stop me from going" and he saw red, lost control and thought "actually, yes I can". It was the result of years of slow rising temperature in the pressure cooker, and he just snapped. Then freaked out. Just my current thoughts anyway.

Thanks Thinking, I must admit I think the drugging is unlikely too given much of the murder seems a bit chaotic and disorganized. I included it as I keep thinking that the police must have more to demonstrate premeditated murder (vs manslaughter) than the self incrimination/pleading the 5th google searches done prior to Allison's death and the call to the life insurer. Perhaps they have a strong case for manslaughter but less for murder and r hoping GBC will plead guilty at a later stage to the lesser charge of manslaughter

 

[Thinking]

"We can't keep spending like this! We have to cut costs or we'll loose everything. We can start with our expensive insurance policies" Chief I think there would have been many fights of 'where is the money going?' & 'where are your commissions' apparently he was giving special treatment to TM.

Very true - and we know that Allison wrote in her diary something to the effect of "where did they go (to be together) and how did they pay for it" re GBC and TM - makes me so angry. :maddening:

 

[Doidy]

Also remember the parents went to GBC house to recover something especially from a wardrobe....as heard on the grapevine

Is it possible to remind me on this one? I've been here since the beginning and can't recall this one - mus have been one of those days when we were getting a new thread every day... I remember someone saying they had been told the police found OW going thru Allison's jewelry and that OW had provided an explanation but that's the only one I can remember

 

[Thinking]

Thanks Thinking, I must admit I think the drugging is unlikely too given much of the murder seems a bit chaotic and disorganized. I included it as I keep thinking that the police must have more to demonstrate premeditated murder (vs manslaughter) than the self incrimination/pleading the 5th google searches done prior to Allison's death and the call to the life insurer. Perhaps they have a strong case for manslaughter but less for murder and r hoping GBC will plead guilty at a later stage to the lesser charge of manslaughter

Yes that makes sense Doidy and you could well be right!

One of the many things that confuses me is the fact that he didn't call an ambulance, didn't make up some story about there being an "accident" and Allison dying etc - he could have made up some pretty good accident stories (unless she was strangled I guess, bit hard to explain that) - the fact that he clearly acted like he hoped she would never be found - so coldly and callously, does make me wonder about premeditation. Of course he simply could be a cowardly, evil, narcissistic, pathetic, dishonest prat who only cared about himself after the deed was done.