Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #40

[Fuskier]

I hadn't heard the FaceTime call was disproved. How was that; was that in MSM? ...

Susan this was posted yesterday:
Originally Posted by alioop
... <respectfully snipped> ...
For MSM to say certain things have been disproved are misleading as the prosecution has not and will not tell MSM their views on the explanations. They may believe these explanations are just more lies by GBC or open up new possibilities of evidence against GBC.

Hope this answers your query as Alioop is a WS verfied Solicitor.

 

[Thinking]

Hello everyone!

Happy Holidays to you all. May the joy of the season fill your hearts and homes.

Merry Christmas Allison. You are in my thoughts.

~Summer_Breeze

Thanks summer - and to you too. I love the sunflowers.

 

[ollijack]

I reckon that, while planning to "dispose" of his wife, GBC watched a few PERRY MASON episodes because he thought they were documentaries

Aberline, just bit into my toast and vegemite, read what you said and nearly choked laughing....xxxxxxx

 

[frustrated detective]

I have to say that it was good to read of Allison's gratitude for her wonderful parents on her grateful list.

It is something positive for them to hold on to during this difficult time, and also confirms that the girls are in the best possible place.

 

[alioop]

We know now that GBC says he was watching The Good Wife a couple of days before Allison went missing and for whatever reason he googled pleading the fifth and that it came up again on his phone just before he called 000, he says unintentionally.

Even if that is true, couldn't it be alleged by the prosecution that he used this information gained from watching the show and doing his googling, in his alleged planning to murder Allison to benefit from her life insurances? By itself this may be seen as co-incidental, but in the context of everything else that was happening around the same time leading up to Allison's disappearance it may well contribute to the evidence as a whole. The police believe that he planned her murder, maybe his plan was just thrown together in the few days before she died.

This is what I meant previously when I said we have to remember that we have not heard the prosecutions response to his explanation about the googling self incrimination stuff. It may well be that his explanation has strengthened the prosecutions case against him.

Aberline's post on this page has made me think about this stuff.

 

[Fuskier]

We know now that GBC says he was watching The Good Wife a couple of days before Allison went missing and for whatever reason he googled pleading the fifth and that it came up again on his phone just before he called 000, he says unintentionally.

Even if that is true, couldn't it be alleged by the prosecution that he used this information gained from watching the show and doing his googling, in his alleged planning to murder Allison to benefit from her life insurances? By itself this may be seen as co-incidental, but in the context of everything else that was happening around the same time leading up to Allison's disappearance it may well contribute to the evidence as a whole. The police believe that he planned her murder, maybe his plan was just thrown together in the few days before she died.

This is what I meant previously when I said we have to remember that we have not heard the prosecutions response to his explanation about the googling self incrimination stuff. It may well be that his explanation has strengthened the prosecutions case against him.

I had thoughts along those same lines. The context matters a great deal and could be indicative of a 'murderous' frame of mind (forming intent). My opinion only.

 

[shyguy]

First time poster! However, been following since the first thread! Finally decided to post as I find it astonishing that every "rumour" is proving to be true.
As a local, I have some opinions and information that may be of interest.

1. From the time of that early, dreadful interview between GBC/OW and the media, you could predict he was going to make it look as though ABC had wondered off/abandoned the family/suicided. The wording, the body language, the tasteless release of children's drawings etc all pointed towards it. The defence's approach in this recent bail application comes as no surprise at all. This is IMOO.

2. We know that OW was at the Baden-Clay house on the Friday morning. It is likely that she was involved from the outset. After the deed was done, GBC phones the father. <modsnip>. From what we have seen, I do not believe for a moment that GBC and NBC would know one end of a dish cloth from the other. A meticulous female was needed for that task. Having OW sorting out the house would also enable the ?sleeping children to be supervised. This is IMOO.

3. Is the latest theory that ABC was NOT placed upstream at the scout camp, but was thrown over the Kholo Creek Bridge? If this was the case, you would expect there to be multiple fractures, which would have been in the PM report.

4. Soon after ABC was found I drove into the Kenmore Village Shopping centre and parked near the large front sign, adjacent to the infamous roundabout. Hanging on a small tree under the sign was a navy blue cap with IGGS embroidered on the front. The cap looked dirty and worn. I immediately thought of ABC's school and also thought that it was a very strange thing to see. It was as though someone had found a cap on the ground nearby and hung it up on the tree in case someone returned for it. I wondered if perhaps ABC had an old school cap in the back of her car and during an incident at the roundabout on Thursday evening involving dumping/moving of evidence, the cap fell out of the car.
I immediately rang crimestoppers and gave them all the details. However, nothing happened. Weeks later the cap was still hanging there - they obviously were not interested in it. Why would that be? I decided it must mean that their interest in the roundabout is only regarding traffic passing through. But I still find it puzzling that NBC was seen at a bus stop near this roundabout. I realise that that is still 'rumour only', but in light of all of the other 'rumours' proving to be true, I am inclined to think this is likely also.

4. I was busy at the time ABC first disappeared and didn't become aware of it until the following Monday. During my rounds of the local businesses, I was told quietly that even at this stage, people who regularly saw the family dining together at a local cafe (when Century 21 was still based at Kenmore) had noted that ABC was very quiet and avoided eye contact, while GBC was cocky and obnoxious. This is something that people used to comment on before the disappearance. Of course this is local gossip, but I think that those people on this forum who are concerned that he was a hot-shot wheeler and dealer who was prepping for a role in politics, should know that he was not thought that highly of by people in the area. That is part of the reason that the rumour mill went into overdrive so early on - people around here had already noticed unpleasant things about him. (IMOO etc....)

5. Before GBC's arrest, whenever he was out and about, he was accompanied by OW's husband. Like a bodyguard/shield. This gentleman also has a very strange manner. I believe that he was sticking close to GBC in case he was put in any situation where he could accidentally give away incriminating information. I think his family would have been very worried that GBC would give the game away and sink them all in the process. (IMOO!)

So, there you go! Not much new information, except for the IGGS cap discarded at Kenmore Village. That still puzzles me and I still wonder if the lack of reaction by the police to that information speaks volumes about what truly happened at the roundabout. Maybe one of you clever regulars can come up with something.

 

[DrWatson]

<modsnip>.

Is the latest theory that ABC was NOT placed upstream at the scout camp, but was thrown over the Kholo Creek Bridge? If this was the case, you would expect there to be multiple fractures, which would have been in the PM report.

Nope - not necessarily at all. First, a body that is totally relaxed - eg dead, or even dead drunk - can have a quite significant fall with no broken bones - depending on their age. Second - if she was "thrown" over the bridge, the mud below would have been very wet and soft. So fractures may have been consistent with being thrown over the bridge, but LACK of fractures does not prove that she WASN'T. If you follow my logic.

Also, if she were simply rolled over the edge of the bridge, onto the bank of the creek not too far below, and then rolled down the bank until she reached that flatter area where she was found, there may not have been much of a drop at all.

Interesting bit about the IGGS cap. When was it eventually removed? And don't forget that a fair number of IGGS girls use that bus stop via the Southern Cross school bus that stops there.

 

[Fuskier]

First time poster! However, been following since the first thread! Finally decided to post as I find it astonishing that every "rumour" is proving to be true.
As a local, I have some opinions and information that may be of interest.

1. From the time of that early, dreadful interview between GBC/OW and the media, you could predict he was going to make it look as though ABC had wondered off/abandoned the family/suicided. The wording, the body language, the tasteless release of children's drawings etc all pointed towards it. The defence's approach in this recent bail application comes as no surprise at all. This is IMOO.

2. We know that OW was at the Baden-Clay house on the Friday morning. It is likely that she was involved from the outset. After the deed was done, GBC phones the father. <modsnip> From what we have seen, I do not believe for a moment that GBC and NBC would know one end of a dish cloth from the other. A meticulous female was needed for that task. Having OW sorting out the house would also enable the ?sleeping children to be supervised. This is IMOO.

3. Is the latest theory that ABC was NOT placed upstream at the scout camp, but was thrown over the Kholo Creek Bridge? If this was the case, you would expect there to be multiple fractures, which would have been in the PM report.

4. Soon after ABC was found I drove into the Kenmore Village Shopping centre and parked near the large front sign, adjacent to the infamous roundabout. Hanging on a small tree under the sign was a navy blue cap with IGGS embroidered on the front. The cap looked dirty and worn. I immediately thought of ABC's school and also thought that it was a very strange thing to see. It was as though someone had found a cap on the ground nearby and hung it up on the tree in case someone returned for it. I wondered if perhaps ABC had an old school cap in the back of her car and during an incident at the roundabout on Thursday evening involving dumping/moving of evidence, the cap fell out of the car.
I immediately rang crimestoppers and gave them all the details. However, nothing happened. Weeks later the cap was still hanging there - they obviously were not interested in it. Why would that be? I decided it must mean that their interest in the roundabout is only regarding traffic passing through. But I still find it puzzling that NBC was seen at a bus stop near this roundabout. I realise that that is still 'rumour only', but in light of all of the other 'rumours' proving to be true, I am inclined to think this is likely also.

4. I was busy at the time ABC first disappeared and didn't become aware of it until the following Monday. During my rounds of the local businesses, I was told quietly that even at this stage, people who regularly saw the family dining together at a local cafe (when Century 21 was still based at Kenmore) had noted that ABC was very quiet and avoided eye contact, while GBC was cocky and obnoxious. This is something that people used to comment on before the disappearance. Of course this is local gossip, but I think that those people on this forum who are concerned that he was a hot-shot wheeler and dealer who was prepping for a role in politics, should know that he was not thought that highly of by people in the area. That is part of the reason that the rumour mill went into overdrive so early on - people around here had already noticed unpleasant things about him. (IMOO etc....)

5. Before GBC's arrest, whenever he was out and about, he was accompanied by OW's husband. Like a bodyguard/shield. This gentleman also has a very strange manner. I believe that he was sticking close to GBC in case he was put in any situation where he could accidentally give away incriminating information. I think his family would have been very worried that GBC would give the game away and sink them all in the process. (IMOO!)

So, there you go! Not much new information, except for the IGGS cap discarded at Kenmore Village. That still puzzles me and I still wonder if the lack of reaction by the police to that information speaks volumes about what truly happened at the roundabout. Maybe one of you clever regulars can come up with something.

WOW! Welcome and thank you for the contribution Shyguy. Your first and second points are illuminating. It does give local community context which is appreciated. Possible that the Captiva and other BC cars were seen/filmed going around the roundabout. Possible that camera may have filmed seats down, or worse a covered body shape. Good point about needing a meticulous female to organise the clean up. Interesting that GBC was shadowed by OW's husband prior to the arrest and that he also has a very strange manner. The IGGS cap hanging on a tree could have been DNA tested if the Police considered it worth following up. Yes, their lack of action speaks volumes about their possible area of interest. My opinion only.

 

[redlightthroughpaper]

First time poster! However, been following since the first thread! Finally decided to post as I find it astonishing that every "rumour" is proving to be true.
As a local, I have some opinions and information that may be of interest.

1. From the time of that early, dreadful interview between GBC/OW and the media, you could predict he was going to make it look as though ABC had wondered off/abandoned the family/suicided. The wording, the body language, the tasteless release of children's drawings etc all pointed towards it. The defence's approach in this recent bail application comes as no surprise at all. This is IMOO.

2. We know that OW was at the Baden-Clay house on the Friday morning. It is likely that she was involved from the outset. After the deed was done, GBC phones the father. <modsnip> From what we have seen, I do not believe for a moment that GBC and NBC would know one end of a dish cloth from the other. A meticulous female was needed for that task. Having OW sorting out the house would also enable the ?sleeping children to be supervised. This is IMOO.

3. Is the latest theory that ABC was NOT placed upstream at the scout camp, but was thrown over the Kholo Creek Bridge? If this was the case, you would expect there to be multiple fractures, which would have been in the PM report.

4. Soon after ABC was found I drove into the Kenmore Village Shopping centre and parked near the large front sign, adjacent to the infamous roundabout. Hanging on a small tree under the sign was a navy blue cap with IGGS embroidered on the front. The cap looked dirty and worn. I immediately thought of ABC's school and also thought that it was a very strange thing to see. It was as though someone had found a cap on the ground nearby and hung it up on the tree in case someone returned for it. I wondered if perhaps ABC had an old school cap in the back of her car and during an incident at the roundabout on Thursday evening involving dumping/moving of evidence, the cap fell out of the car.
I immediately rang crimestoppers and gave them all the details. However, nothing happened. Weeks later the cap was still hanging there - they obviously were not interested in it. Why would that be? I decided it must mean that their interest in the roundabout is only regarding traffic passing through. But I still find it puzzling that NBC was seen at a bus stop near this roundabout. I realise that that is still 'rumour only', but in light of all of the other 'rumours' proving to be true, I am inclined to think this is likely also.

4. I was busy at the time ABC first disappeared and didn't become aware of it until the following Monday. During my rounds of the local businesses, I was told quietly that even at this stage, people who regularly saw the family dining together at a local cafe (when Century 21 was still based at Kenmore) had noted that ABC was very quiet and avoided eye contact, while GBC was cocky and obnoxious. This is something that people used to comment on before the disappearance. Of course this is local gossip, but I think that those people on this forum who are concerned that he was a hot-shot wheeler and dealer who was prepping for a role in politics, should know that he was not thought that highly of by people in the area. That is part of the reason that the rumour mill went into overdrive so early on - people around here had already noticed unpleasant things about him. (IMOO etc....)

5. Before GBC's arrest, whenever he was out and about, he was accompanied by OW's husband. Like a bodyguard/shield. This gentleman also has a very strange manner. I believe that he was sticking close to GBC in case he was put in any situation where he could accidentally give away incriminating information. I think his family would have been very worried that GBC would give the game away and sink them all in the process. (IMOO!)

So, there you go! Not much new information, except for the IGGS cap discarded at Kenmore Village. That still puzzles me and I still wonder if the lack of reaction by the police to that information speaks volumes about what truly happened at the roundabout. Maybe one of you clever regulars can come up with something.

Hi everyone. :fence:

Re 5: I saw (and spoke briefly to) GBC a number of times prior to arrest - he was not accompanied by anyone other than the girls on those occasions - two of which were inside Kenmore Village. IMO.

Re 4: Some people in the area thought reasonably highly of GBC and some people did not. IMO.

 

[Mountain Misst]

Welcome shy guy........ You're not so shy. Thanks for your insights.

:fireworks2:

 

[Humdinger]

Hi everyone. :fence:

Re 5: I saw (and spoke briefly to) GBC a number of times prior to arrest - he was not accompanied by anyone other than the girls on those occasions - two of which were inside Kenmore Village. IMO.

Re 4: Some people in the area thought reasonably highly of GBC and some people did not. IMO.

Welcome redlightthroughpaper!

I did LOL a bit about 'reasonably highly'. But in all seriousness, thanks for your post. Could you shed any light on the personality of GBC and maybe how he was prior to the arrest? Was he just 'business as usual' as he stated or did he seem to be grieving for the loss of his wife?

 

[redlightthroughpaper]

Welcome redlightthroughpaper!

I did LOL a bit about 'reasonably highly'. But in all seriousness, thanks for your post. Could you shed any light on the personality of GBC and maybe how he was prior to the arrest? Was he just 'business as usual' as he stated or did he seem to be grieving for the loss of his wife?

Prior to ABC missing his personality stereotype seemed (to me) to be that of your typical social climbing business owner. IMO.
Just prior to arrest GBC seemed (to me) to be dazed and highly stressed. IMO.

 

[Humdinger]

Prior to ABC missing his personality stereotype seemed (to me) to be that of your typical social climbing business owner. IMO.
Just prior to arrest GBC seemed (to me) to be dazed and highly stressed. IMO.

Thank you
That's pretty much the impression I had in my mind. Dazed and stressed would certainly make sense too, he surely had a lot going on and the pressure was mounting.

 

[JK673]

First time poster! However, been following since the first thread! Finally decided to post as I find it astonishing that every "rumour" is proving to be true.
As a local, I have some opinions and information that may be of interest.

1. From the time of that early, dreadful interview between GBC/OW and the media, you could predict he was going to make it look as though ABC had wondered off/abandoned the family/suicided. The wording, the body language, the tasteless release of children's drawings etc all pointed towards it. The defence's approach in this recent bail application comes as no surprise at all. This is IMOO.

2. We know that OW was at the Baden-Clay house on the Friday morning. It is likely that she was involved from the outset. After the deed was done, GBC phones the father. <modsnip> From what we have seen, I do not believe for a moment that GBC and NBC would know one end of a dish cloth from the other. A meticulous female was needed for that task. Having OW sorting out the house would also enable the ?sleeping children to be supervised. This is IMOO.

3. Is the latest theory that ABC was NOT placed upstream at the scout camp, but was thrown over the Kholo Creek Bridge? If this was the case, you would expect there to be multiple fractures, which would have been in the PM report.

4. Soon after ABC was found I drove into the Kenmore Village Shopping centre and parked near the large front sign, adjacent to the infamous roundabout. Hanging on a small tree under the sign was a navy blue cap with IGGS embroidered on the front. The cap looked dirty and worn. I immediately thought of ABC's school and also thought that it was a very strange thing to see. It was as though someone had found a cap on the ground nearby and hung it up on the tree in case someone returned for it. I wondered if perhaps ABC had an old school cap in the back of her car and during an incident at the roundabout on Thursday evening involving dumping/moving of evidence, the cap fell out of the car.
I immediately rang crimestoppers and gave them all the details. However, nothing happened. Weeks later the cap was still hanging there - they obviously were not interested in it. Why would that be? I decided it must mean that their interest in the roundabout is only regarding traffic passing through. But I still find it puzzling that NBC was seen at a bus stop near this roundabout. I realise that that is still 'rumour only', but in light of all of the other 'rumours' proving to be true, I am inclined to think this is likely also.

4. I was busy at the time ABC first disappeared and didn't become aware of it until the following Monday. During my rounds of the local businesses, I was told quietly that even at this stage, people who regularly saw the family dining together at a local cafe (when Century 21 was still based at Kenmore) had noted that ABC was very quiet and avoided eye contact, while GBC was cocky and obnoxious. This is something that people used to comment on before the disappearance. Of course this is local gossip, but I think that those people on this forum who are concerned that he was a hot-shot wheeler and dealer who was prepping for a role in politics, should know that he was not thought that highly of by people in the area. That is part of the reason that the rumour mill went into overdrive so early on - people around here had already noticed unpleasant things about him. (IMOO etc....)

5. Before GBC's arrest, whenever he was out and about, he was accompanied by OW's husband. Like a bodyguard/shield. This gentleman also has a very strange manner. I believe that he was sticking close to GBC in case he was put in any situation where he could accidentally give away incriminating information. I think his family would have been very worried that GBC would give the game away and sink them all in the process. (IMOO!)

So, there you go! Not much new information, except for the IGGS cap discarded at Kenmore Village. That still puzzles me and I still wonder if the lack of reaction by the police to that information speaks volumes about what truly happened at the roundabout. Maybe one of you clever regulars can come up with something.

As a senior at IGGS the year after ABC left, I can assure you that we did not have caps in those days. We had daggy bucket hats. We only just got the formal straw-type day hat a couple of years beforehand, her girls were not at IGGS either so I doubt the cap was hers. Someone may have placed it there out of respect afterwards??? That would be why it was left untouched I'd say. :twocents:

 

[alioop]

Welcome shyguy and redlightthroughpaper, we appreciate you joining us and sharing your insights.

From what I heard Danny Boyle say at the bail hearing, he stated her injuries that were able to be determined by the post mortem were a chipped tooth, subdural haemotoma and bruising on chest wall. He stated there were no injuries consistent with a fall from the bridge ( which I took to mean no broken bones). If there was evidence that her hand/s had been removed by her killer I believe this would have been stated by Danny, particularly as it would have been major evidence to counter the suicide theory and it was that theory that was the reason for the second bail application.

So I believe that if there is an issue about the hands then it was due to decomposition only.

I appreciate Doc's point that she may not have suffered broken bones if she was dead when she was either thrown over the bridge or rolled or carried down to where she was found. I think that Danny's Boyle's comments about the no broken bones consistent with a fall was particularly directed to counter the suicide theory that she may have jumped off the bridge.

 

[DrWatson]

EXCELLENT thinking there Alioop - if a hand was missing, it would certainly be in the autopsy report, and given that both sides had access to the autopsy report, there is no way that the defence would have tried something like the suicide theory when it could have so easily been shot down in flames. I have never heard of anyone cutting off their own hand to commit suicide. Also, if she had - where is it?

Good, clear, logical lawyer-type thinking there Alioop - very impressive!
:rocker:

 

[Crime and punishment]

Welcome Shyguy- you have made some interesting comments- thank you for joining us . I don't think Ian Walton would have been able to be with Gerard too much in Brisbane as he is a Baptist Pastor in Townsville who has responsibilities to his church. He is the Pastoral care Pastor (hospital and elderly visitation, with preaching responsibilities) who is thought of very highly among his congregation- he comes across as friendly and likeable. The church has been supportive to the family during all this but not to the extent of financing bail applications IMO. I don't doubt he has visited Brisbane several times but he and Olivia have 3 fairly young children - I personally don't know how Olivia has been able to be in Brisbane so frequently. Airfares aren't cheap on a Pastor's wage- approx $400 return each trip from Townsville. Olivia doesn't work -I believe the children are home schooled too. MOO.

 

[Makara]

Off topic but this is unbelievable! :furious: Nice CCTV footage of the thief. :furious:

Thief steals donations for Sarah Cafferkey plaque

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/t...or-sarah-cafferkey-plaque-20121219-2bmlw.html

 

[possumheart]

EXCELLENT thinking there Alioop - if a hand was missing, it would certainly be in the autopsy report, and given that both sides had access to the autopsy report.:

Missing hand/s are most probably due to water rats which inhabit the Kholo Creek area. She had shoes on, so her feet would have been protected.
The first things I sighted when I first visited the bridge were a decomposing water rat and bandicoot as I mentioned in earlier threads. Decomposition of her corpse does not amount to an injury.