Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #41

[Groundedgirl]

Grasping at straws.

Couldn't think of a better way to put it.

Husband having affair = Depraved mental state = Depression = Psychiatrist = Zoloft = Suicide = Death = Money.

Wow. Is this really all a high priced defence team could come up with? :what:

 

[whitechapel]

Perhaps the toxicology report was just used as the ‘new evidence’ to get another bail hearing? Simply proposing a suicide theory wouldn’t be ‘new evidence’, but the toxicology report itself was.
If it goes to trial, the defence might try to introduce a suicide theory that may not be dependent on an actual overdose of Zoloft. IMO.

As I understand, the defence do not need to prove suicide, just try to create reasonable doubt.

The judge at the second bail hearing was quite scathing at their suicide theory, so I am guessing they will steer clear of this and look for another strategy for future court sessions.

The prosecution did not need to present all their evidence at the bail hearings, but I think the call logs (mobile and land line) for all the GBC clan and associates will play an important role in the committal hearing.

MOO...

 

[ozazure]

Yeah well look what hogwash they came up with in the Casey Anthony trial and worse thing is, it worked. It relies on people giving what they say some weight and the scary thing is, the good people in here do! Two empty boxes do not need to be explained away with being planted by GBC because they are paper tigers in the suicide paper tiger army.

 

[redlightthroughpaper]

As I understand, the defence do not need to prove suicide, just try to create reasonable doubt.

The judge at the second bail hearing was quite scathing at their suicide theory, so I am guessing they will steer clear of this and look for another strategy for future court sessions.

The prosecution did not need to present all their evidence at the bail hearings, but I think the call logs (mobile and land line) for all the GBC clan and associates will play an important role in the committal hearing.

MOO...

Creating reasonable doubt at trial is one thing. Producing new evidence to have another shot at getting bail is another. The defence required 'new evidence' to be granted a second bail hearing. Once they had that 'new evidence', they had an opportunity to convince a judge that there was no flight risk or danger if GBC was released on bail. There was no need to prove or disprove any whodunnit (or who didn't) theory. All IMO.

 

[Mountain Misst]

Just a general question about the availability of court documents, are you there alioop?
You have probably already explained this somewhere, but I was just looking at the court document/summary posted by mountainmist in the media/timeline section, and wondering what all the affidavits might be.Do we know what they all were? Is is likely that they are all just offers to put up bail money(except for the solicitors and police prosecutors of course)? Are we able to read all of these? I am confused about what has become available, as sometimes people quote things that were made available at the bail applications and I dont remember reading them?

What I'm asking is, is there somewhere I can look to read for myself all the documents that were tendered in court?

Sorry if you have gone over this. Thanks.

Here's the link: http://apps.courts.qld.gov.au/esear...ocation=BRISB&Court=SUPRE&Filenumber=11307/12

The court documents are not available to read online. They are available for purchase from the court by anyone, however we usually hear about the contents through the media. MSM would have obtained copies from the court.

 

[Couldbe]

Creating reasonable doubt at trial is one thing. Producing new evidence to have another shot at getting bail is another. The defence required 'new evidence' to be granted a second bail hearing. Once they had that 'new evidence', they had an opportunity to convince a judge that there was no flight risk or danger if GBC was released on bail. There was no need to prove or disprove any whodunnit (or who didn't) theory. All IMO.

...... to commit GBC for Trial for Murder, one would think that the Prosecution might have to, without trying to prove it at that stage, give some evidence as to why they want to try him, and not someone else.

 

[Liadan]

It is just crazy the number of ways that the baden-clays could have communicated. Emails,(new accounts) skype, via Allisons phone, internet messaging. I would go so far to propose that GBC kept a stealth mobile that he used for TM and his mistresses - to me that would seem logical. So I wouldn't doubt that there is much more 'communication' going on that we don't know about. What if he predominately used Allisons phone that morning to arrange her demise with his parents- that would explain why it had to dissappear.

Can't help but wonder if GBC was Bruce Overland what were Neil and Elaine? And TM probably had an alias as well. (Sheila perhaps? I think someone mentioned this early early in the days of the investigation.)

I think the fact that the police have lawfully successfully intercepted the parents trying to help GBC contact TM is proof enough that they are in this up to their eyeballs.

 

[redlightthroughpaper]

...... to commit GBC for Trial for Murder, one would think that the Prosecution might have to, without trying to prove it at that stage, give some evidence as to why they want to try him, and not someone else.

Yes. Hopefully we will see some more enlightening information emerge from the committal hearing.

 

[Liadan]

Just a general question about the availability of court documents, are you there alioop?
You have probably already explained this somewhere, but I was just looking at the court document/summary posted by mountainmist in the media/timeline section, and wondering what all the affidavits might be.Do we know what they all were? Is is likely that they are all just offers to put up bail money(except for the solicitors and police prosecutors of course)? Are we able to read all of these? I am confused about what has become available, as sometimes people quote things that were made available at the bail applications and I dont remember reading them?

What I'm asking is, is there somewhere I can look to read for myself all the documents that were tendered in court?

Sorry if you have gone over this. Thanks.

Ob - Alioop will fill in the details and correct my stuff ups here but I think what you are asking about is basically what do those affidavits contain. They are the statements of various people associated with GBC about the way the situation happened surrounding the incident and other important details.These are also are sworn/witnessed by a solicitor/lawyer. I think if it is not true and the judge finds out - it doesn't look so good for you or GBC. But usually the defence gets them pretty tight so that there are no details that can be questioned.

So it might say 'my name is ringo starr and I am 34 years old and have lived in portugal all my life and i was not present in australia when the crime on the 20th of april was committed. I am an expert with a Janome sewing machine and currently work for a vitamin factory that does not produce Zoloft. I first met GBC when I signed his drumstick at drum lessons in 1979, we have remained in contact as he sold me my villa in Spain. On the 20th I did not speak to GBC but received a phone call on the 21st that his wife had dissappeared. At that stage he informed me that we are focussing on the kids.'

Now here is where I might get this wrong - but I think the judge reads these and it goes to form the sort of person and capability and character of the person and clues them in to the actual details of the crime.

So OW affidavit and IW affidavit are likely to be totally different it is just about their individual cirucmstances and how they relate to GBC (I think) nothing to do with bail money.

 

[Obsessor]

I think the fact that the police have lawfully successfully intercepted the parents trying to help GBC contact TM is proof enough that they are in this up to their eyeballs.

I must have missed something here too. Can you explain this Liadan?



And, thankyou to everyone for answering my questions. <modsnip>. Very grateful.

 

[Liadan]

I must have missed something here too. Can you explain this Liadan?



And, thankyou to everyone for answering my questions. <modsnip>. Very grateful.

This is a quote from the Bail doco Ob, it states 'that the defendant (GBC) has used his parents to assist him in covertly contacting TM'.

If his parents are willing to organise contact with TM then I am suggesting it is not to hard to believe they were involved in other aspects of a purported cover up.

 

[Obsessor]

This is a quote from the Bail doco Ob, it states 'that the defendant (GBC) has used his parents to assist him in covertly contacting TM'.

If his parents are willing to organise contact with TM then I am suggesting it is not to hard to believe they were involved in other aspects of a purported cover up.

Thankyou for that, and I agree with you 100%

 

[DrWatson]

So it might say 'my name is ringo starr and I am 34 years old and have lived in portugal all my life and i was not present in australia when the crime on the 20th of april was committed. I am an expert with a Janome sewing machine and currently work for a vitamin factory that does not produce Zoloft. I first met GBC when I signed his drumstick at drum lessons in 1979, we have remained in contact as he sold me my villa in Spain. On the 20th I did not speak to GBC but received a phone call on the 21st that his wife had dissappeared. At that stage he informed me that we are focussing on the kids.'

Hahah Hilarious! :floorlaugh:

Let me know when your first book is due out Liadan - I'll be the first in line to buy a copy...!

 

[LadyBird1]

Thanks Alioop. I was wondering because of the discussion earlier regarding OW and NBC being at the house so early on the morning of 20th. It was mentioned at the first bail hearing that NBC had provided a brief statement in relation to the contact he had with GBC after 6.30am on 20th. There seems to be no record of GBC calling him from his mobile before 6.41am that morning (apart from the 12.30am FaceTime call), so I thought perhaps he had used the landline. (He may have just called NBC from his mobile after 6.41am too though). I was hoping that we may have been able to glean some more information from those landline records if they had been produced in court. But unfortunately, it seems not. It is frustrating having so little information! All IMO.

This might be a silly thought. But it just occurred to me that GBC may have had more than one mobile phone. Possibly in a different name.
And it has been disposed of, along with Allison's phone.
Telstra or Optus or whatever provider would have records though?

 

[Obsessor]

If his parents are willing to organise contact with TM then I am suggesting it is not to hard to believe they were involved in other aspects of a purported cover up.

I believe Olivia is also in it up to her eyeballs, my opinion only.

Reasons;
-she was there before police that day, and would therefore have to have asked some questions
-she verified the caterpiller bites (didnt she???, thought I remebered this, but cant find where I read it)
-she verified the bump on the forehead,was from him falling over and hitting his head
-she spoke out about Allisons depression
-she justifies GBCs absence from the search by saying when he wasnt HELPING police with their enquiries he was at home spending all his time with the children (we know he didnt help)

I know these do not make her guilty, it is just giving me a feeling (in my waters)
I know also that family naturally defends family, but I wonder if a couple of these things were not things witnessed but things she has added in order to help GBC. (and maybe she didnt add them intentionally, but the situation seemed urgent and the truth got away a little?)

One thing is for sure, I would hate to be in ANY one of this families shoes right now. Having to answer questions in court will be very tough.

I believe (as others on here have said too) this family wanted Allisons disappearance to be a small paragraph, half way down the centre page of the papers, and then blow over within a week, as some unfortunately do. They hoped their name and standing in the community would help in this regard, as they felt confident the police and public would never suspect spousal involvement in THIS case.
This is why they had such an aggressive attitude towards the "intrusive" media. They wanted/needed to play it down. They NEEDED the media to go away, to drop the story. To let them get life back to normal for "the girls".

All my opinion only, for what its worth. :twocents:

 

[Couldbe]

I believe Olivia is also in it up to her eyeballs, my opinion only.

Reasons;
-she was there before police that day, and would therefore have to have asked some questions
-she verified the caterpiller bites (didnt she???, thought I remebered this, but cant find where I read it)
-she verified the bump on the forehead,was from him falling over and hitting his head
-she spoke out about Allisons depression
-she justifies GBCs absence from the search by saying when he wasnt HELPING police with their enquiries he was at home spending all his time with the children (we know he didnt help)

I know these do not make her guilty, it is just giving me a feeling (in my waters)
I know also that family naturally defends family, but I wonder if a couple of these things were not things witnessed but things she has added in order to help GBC. (and maybe she didnt add them intentionally, but the situation seemed urgent and the truth got away a little?)

One thing is for sure, I would hate to be in ANY one of this families shoes right now. Having to answer questions in court will be very tough.

I believe (as others on here have said too) this family wanted Allisons disappearance to be a small paragraph, half way down the centre page of the papers, and then blow over within a week, as some unfortunately do. They hoped their name and standing in the community would help in this regard, as they felt confident the police and public would never suspect spousal involvement in THIS case.
This is why they had such an aggressive attitude towards the "intrusive" media. They wanted/needed to play it down. They NEEDED the media to go away, to drop the story. To let them get life back to normal for "the girls".

All my opinion only, for what its worth. :twocents:

... very feasible summation. Great faith by Olivia and her husband needs to be maintained, but factual evidence may prove to be their adversary.

 

[GEANIE]

Ob - Alioop will fill in the details and correct my stuff ups here but I think what you are asking about is basically what do those affidavits contain. They are the statements of various people associated with GBC about the way the situation happened surrounding the incident and other important details.These are also are sworn/witnessed by a solicitor/lawyer. I think if it is not true and the judge finds out - it doesn't look so good for you or GBC. But usually the defence gets them pretty tight so that there are no details that can be questioned.

So it might say 'my name is ringo starr and I am 34 years old and have lived in portugal all my life and i was not present in australia when the crime on the 20th of april was committed. I am an expert with a Janome sewing machine and currently work for a vitamin factory that does not produce Zoloft. I first met GBC when I signed his drumstick at drum lessons in 1979, we have remained in contact as he sold me my villa in Spain. On the 20th I did not speak to GBC but received a phone call on the 21st that his wife had dissappeared. At that stage he informed me that we are focussing on the kids.'

Now here is where I might get this wrong - but I think the judge reads these and it goes to form the sort of person and capability and character of the person and clues them in to the actual details of the crime.

So OW affidavit and IW affidavit are likely to be totally different it is just about their individual cirucmstances and how they relate to GBC (I think) nothing to do with bail money.

That cracked me up....I just bought a new Janome sewing machine......Where is Ringo Star.......I can't figure out auto button hole.......

I think you got it right.......very informative......:banghead:

 

[GEANIE]

Thankyou for that, and I agree with you 100%

Didn't he say his father and sister knew nothing of the affair with TMc....No mention of ( MUMMY BWANNA )The morning police arrived........He asked if they could please keep it confidential......They must be stupid if they didn't know.......of course they knew.....:banghead:....everyone else knew and she was there painting their house........The senior BC's after floods.....

 

[Liadan]

This might be a silly thought. But it just occurred to me that GBC may have had more than one mobile phone. Possibly in a different name.
And it has been disposed of, along with Allison's phone.
Telstra or Optus or whatever provider would have records though?

Yes perhaps as a 'company share phone' and conveniently dissappeared before the crime ......

 

[Liadan]

Hahah Hilarious! :floorlaugh:

Let me know when your first book is due out Liadan - I'll be the first in line to buy a copy...!

:coffeews:Glad it gave you a bit of a laugh - it gets pretty intense here!ullhair: