Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #41

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  • #421
And sarcasm is the lowest form of wit - so I do apologise regarding my 'forlorn' comments about NBC- I just don't believe Squizzey - many do but that is my choice -he is an insider yes- but for me this info doesn't seem viable. I am happy to be proved wrong but as a WS insider - what else has he brought to the table now that we have had some substantial input into the case through the bail application? We are all still here and Squizzey is?????? So with all due respect these are simply my opinions and just the way I tend to view the situation!



Squizzey gave a lot to Webslueths and copped a lot of flack I believe it could be true, much of the local gos has proven to be true it will be prime piece of evidence in the court case.

I hope it is true because they'll get you :please::great:
 
  • #422
I've been mulling over the possibility/likelihood of an or several accomplices today.

Does anyone know why NBC would only have been allowed a non-contact visit? I've been reading on the Qld Corrective Services website that family visits and contact are encouraged, and it appears that the only reason for denying a contact visit are previous criminal records. I guess this can be something like DUI (driving under the influence), but I'm also wondering why EBC doesn't appear to have visited at all (that I know of).

EBC and NBC have also been conspicuously absent from the bail hearings.

I wonder if EBC is not allowed into the prison at all- contact or non-contact??

Its all so strange.

BTW- great sleuthing guys- all of you. :)

Hi Obsessor, I don’t know anything about GBC’s current visitation situation, but I remember that EBC did visit GBC one time back in July when he was still in protective custody.

Baden-Clay is still prohibited contact visits at Arthur Gorrie Correctional Centre, where he's been placed in a protected cell, and was forced to talk to mother and father Elaine and Nigel, and friend Rob Cheesman through a wall of glass when they came to visit him on Thursday morning.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...ion-with-parents/story-e6freon6-1226437064918
 
  • #423
You know I did think - the kids were home all night so how could they have done what they did. It doesn't sit right with me --still - without sounding hideous - its almost like wait till the kids are out of action and then get hinky and dispose of the body.

Why do that with the kids there when Olivia is there to transport the kids away and to let them spend time with their cousins ( do we know that OW's kids were there too) and sure if the girls fell asleep at Durness St with their cousins then GBC could carry them to the car and get them tucked up into their beds as usual.

What if the roundabout sitings of the Prado/Captiva were bringing the girls back to the Brookfield house and not about coming back from Kholo? NBC didn't need to go through that roundabout to return his home from dumping Allison at Kholo so maybe he was the one to drive the Captiva that night and waiting for GBC at the roundabout to switch cars.




(Altho with all due respect to Squizzey I have to say - I struggle to believe NBC sitting in the open bus stop looking forlorn and upset - NBC forlorn doesn't cut it for me!)

It doesn't sit right with you Liadan? Ah! Groan...
There is nothing that sits right with me at all throughout. NOTHING.
I agree, all hideous. The adulterous ongoing affair, whilst Allison meanwhile is trying marriage counselling/ guidance to salvage the same marriage; the hell on earth Allison is living with; the narcissistic manipulations that are gently but surely being plied; the erosion of Allison's person-hood and femininity. That he is too mean to even afford his very wife Allison, a HUG?
Had to look up "hinky", Liadan. Apparently it means "Something that is wrong or out of place." Ooops, showing the age!
Net result; none of it sits right with me.
 
  • #424
  • #425
Here is my theory.
MOO, IMO etc...

1. Sometime after 6.30pm Allison returns from hairdressers looking good and feeling a little more confident after being subjected to humiliation by GBC words and actions (as the diary extracts show)
2. Over the course of the evening, the atmosphere is dire, but nothing escalates while kids are still up.
3. The argument heats up after the kids are asleep and they go outside the back patio so kids are not disturbed.
4. GBC wants to put Allison down again and complains about the cost of the hairdo.
5. GBC complains they can&#8217;t afford such extravagance <modsnip>
6. GBC says &#8216;and by the way, TM doesn&#8217;t want you to go to the conference tomorrow&#8217;
7. Allison threatens divorce and storms off upstairs to bed.
8. GBC left to stew on the couch watching the footie show. He thinks about his promise to TM to leave Allison and his worsening financial problems. He knows the insurance policy will expire soon and has been thinking for some time that he would be better off without Allison and coldly she is worth more dead than alive.
9. GBC waits until he thinks Allison is asleep and goes upstairs. He tries to strangle or suffocate her, mindful that he needs to keep the noise to a minimum because kids are sleeping close by.
10. Allison fights back, scratches his face so he punches her in the mouth, and continues to suffocate her until he thinks she is dead.
11. GBC thinks she is dead and calls accomplice(s) - O/W for babysitting and NBC to help to dispose of the body.
12. While he is waiting for help to arrive, he cleans up the blood from his scratches and her mouth with tissues/toilet paper and flushes down the loo.
13. Help arrives. Allison is re-dressed in walking clothes to go with the plan she went for a walk and was murdered or &#8216;fell down a hole&#8217;
14. They wrap her head in a shower curtain to try and contain blood from her mouth.
15. Around 10pm she is carried downstairs, round the back patio. Her clothes come in contact with the flora described in second bail hearing. The neighbour&#8217;s dog Scraps barks at the unusual night time activity.
16. Allison is put into the rear of the Captiva and two cars (Captiva and Prado) set off to find a place where they can dispose of the body. Eg. Camping Ground or down a hole.
17. During the journey, Allison wakes up and the car swerves erratically as she struggles for her life. The car stops and she tries to escape.
18. 10.53pm Screams heard by Bruce Flegg (Dr Flegg's home 1km from BC home.)
19. Allison is killed and her body taken to Kholo bridge where she is later found.
20. On the way back GBC and NBC need to dispose of incriminating evidence (shower curtain?) and decide a supermarket dumpster at the Kenmore shopping centre is the best place.
21. NBC acts as lookout at the bus shelter near the roundabout while GBC disposes of evidence.
22. NBC is spotted at the bus shelter while on lookout duty.
23. GBC picks up NBC and returns home.
24. NBC and OW stay and help clean up the Captiva, signs of the fight then phone put back on charger at 1.48am
25. Later in the morning, OW takes the girls to school just as the police arrive, following the charade of the phone messages, "gone for a walk" thing. NBC is also still there with the vacuum cleaner.
26. Much later GBC contacts Bruce Flegg to ask about cameras around the roundabout/shopping area to see if their activity could have been caught on camera.

Interestingly and coincidentally, this name crops up several times. Eg GBC asking him for a loan, GBC asking about street cameras and his report of hearing screams. These contacts have been reported by MSM.
 
  • #426
Court to hear case involving Allison Baden-Clay's insurance policy payout

January 23, 2013

THE company holding Allison Baden-Clay's second life insurance policy will head to court next month to determine who should get the money.
Mrs Baden-Clay's husband Gerard made claims on both her life insurance policies following the discovery of her body on April 30 - 10 days after she was reported missing.

He was later charged with her murder.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...ce-policy-payout/story-e6freoof-1226559568314
 
  • #427
13. Help arrives. Allison is re-dressed in walking clothes to go with the plan she went for a walk and was murdered or &#8216;fell down a hole&#8217;
14. They wrap her head in a shower curtain to try and contain blood from her mouth.


I agree with all of this but I kind of struggle with the shower curtain idea. Was this confirmed? Going to the effort of unclipping the curtain from the shower rail to wrap her in it? Wouldnt they have just used an blanket or towel? Didnt someone post photos of the bathroom from the real estate listing - was the shower curtain missing?

Trying to imagine them redressing Allison but I guess that they would have had to if she was in pyjamas/nightie etc. Bit hard to pull off the "murdered whilst out walking" theory if she was in sleepwear.

I get that NBC might have been keeping a lookout at the roundabout at Kenmore while GBC is disposing of the shower curtain in a dumpster behind the supermarket area, but if NBC was in the second car...why would he get out of it to go and sit in a bus stop? Wouldnt he just sit and wait in his car and watch from there? And what exactly was he watching for -police car?

I reckon he would have stood out like the proverbial and attracted more attention from the boys in blue by sitting in a bus stop at that hour of the night!

Good sleuthing though! And this SOO frustrating trying to make sense of the BC's actions that night.:banghead:
 
  • #428
Here is my theory.
MOO, IMO etc...

1. Sometime after 6.30pm Allison returns from hairdressers looking good and feeling a little more confident after being subjected to humiliation by GBC words and actions (as the diary extracts show)
2. Over the course of the evening, the atmosphere is dire, but nothing escalates while kids are still up.
3. The argument heats up after the kids are asleep and they go outside the back patio so kids are not disturbed.
4. GBC wants to put Allison down again and complains about the cost of the hairdo.
5. GBC complains they can&#8217;t afford such extravagance <modsnip>
6. GBC says &#8216;and by the way, TM doesn&#8217;t want you to go to the conference tomorrow&#8217;
7. Allison threatens divorce and storms off upstairs to bed.
8. GBC left to stew on the couch watching the footie show. He thinks about his promise to TM to leave Allison and his worsening financial problems. He knows the insurance policy will expire soon and has been thinking for some time that he would be better off without Allison and coldly she is worth more dead than alive.
9. GBC waits until he thinks Allison is asleep and goes upstairs. He tries to strangle or suffocate her, mindful that he needs to keep the noise to a minimum because kids are sleeping close by.
10. Allison fights back, scratches his face so he punches her in the mouth, and continues to suffocate her until he thinks she is dead.
11. GBC thinks she is dead and calls accomplice(s) - O/W for babysitting and NBC to help to dispose of the body.
12. While he is waiting for help to arrive, he cleans up the blood from his scratches and her mouth with tissues/toilet paper and flushes down the loo.
13. Help arrives. Allison is re-dressed in walking clothes to go with the plan she went for a walk and was murdered or &#8216;fell down a hole&#8217;
14. They wrap her head in a shower curtain to try and contain blood from her mouth.
15. Around 10pm she is carried downstairs, round the back patio. Her clothes come in contact with the flora described in second bail hearing. The neighbour&#8217;s dog Scraps barks at the unusual night time activity.
16. Allison is put into the rear of the Captiva and two cars (Captiva and Prado) set off to find a place where they can dispose of the body. Eg. Camping Ground or down a hole.
17. During the journey, Allison wakes up and the car swerves erratically as she struggles for her life. The car stops and she tries to escape.
18. 10.53pm Screams heard by Bruce Flegg (Dr Flegg's home 1km from BC home.)
19. Allison is killed and her body taken to Kholo bridge where she is later found.
20. On the way back GBC and NBC need to dispose of incriminating evidence (shower curtain?) and decide a supermarket dumpster at the Kenmore shopping centre is the best place.
21. NBC acts as lookout at the bus shelter near the roundabout while GBC disposes of evidence.
22. NBC is spotted at the bus shelter while on lookout duty.
23. GBC picks up NBC and returns home.
24. NBC and OW stay and help clean up the Captiva, signs of the fight then phone put back on charger at 1.48am
25. Later in the morning, OW takes the girls to school just as the police arrive, following the charade of the phone messages, "gone for a walk" thing. NBC is also still there with the vacuum cleaner.
26. Much later GBC contacts Bruce Flegg to ask about cameras around the roundabout/shopping area to see if their activity could have been caught on camera.

Interestingly and coincidentally, this name crops up several times. Eg GBC asking him for a loan, GBC asking about street cameras and his report of hearing screams. These contacts have been reported by MSM.

Howdy whitechapel. Very good thinking IMO. Possibly very close to what happened. The face-time call at 12.30am?
Not sure if this has been discussed here. But, here goes.
I believe that some dogs often know when a human death is imminent.
There is an huge difference between dogs barking and barking dogs acting like crazy. For instance, a dog has a very distinctly different bark if it is in snake killing mode. Ask anyone who has a good snake killer dog. (That particular bark language is only used for that purpose, so it's owner knows in advance, and unequivocally, that the dog has a snake baled up.)
Have heard of dogs howling like mad when a human person dies, even a neighbour. I take this to mean, when the spirit leaves the body.
So for this dog Scraps to be behaving in a totally erratic manner, coincidentally at the same time when Allison's life hung in the balance, is telling something. (That is: if the Scraps story is accurate.)
I am just saying that some dogs have senses that we humans don't have. And if the Scraps story is accurate, it may be more telling than initially thought. Only its owners and Scraps would know more.
 
  • #429
... Incidentally, dogs often know when a human death is imminent.
There is an huge difference between dogs barking and barking dogs acting like crazy... So for this dog Scraps to be behaving in a totally erratic manner, coincidentally at the time when Allison's life hung in the balance, is telling something. (That is: if the Scraps story is accurate.)
I am just saying that some dogs have senses that we humans don't have. And if the Scraps story is accurate, it may be more telling than initially thought. Only its owners and Scraps would know more.

Yes, Scraps had a message for us that something unusual was going on at the back of the B-C rented house that night. Allison left her message on GBC's scratched chest, underarm, neck and face. Agree, both Scraps and Allison's messages need to be taken into account IMO.
 
  • #430
Court to hear case involving Allison Baden-Clay's insurance policy payout

January 23, 2013

THE company holding Allison Baden-Clay's second life insurance policy will head to court next month to determine who should get the money.
Mrs Baden-Clay's husband Gerard made claims on both her life insurance policies following the discovery of her body on April 30 - 10 days after she was reported missing.

He was later charged with her murder.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...ce-policy-payout/story-e6freoof-1226559568314
Further, Lawyers for the second Insurance company have deposited the money in trust with the Federal Court; they ask the Federal Court to determine who should receive the payout. The case is to be heard in 2 weeks time on 6th February, 2013. Considering the seriousness of what is yet to be determined, well done Insurance Company IMO.
 
  • #431
We seem to be presuming that the children were oblivious that night. The reality is that we don't know what they saw or heard (if anything). They may have heard much more than anyone is aware of. We just don't know. My heart goes out to them.


Quite right Thinking! - GBC could likely not give a proverbial. They had probably seen it all before.
 
  • #432
Court to hear case involving Allison Baden-Clay's insurance policy payout

January 23, 2013

THE company holding Allison Baden-Clay's second life insurance policy will head to court next month to determine who should get the money.
Mrs Baden-Clay's husband Gerard made claims on both her life insurance policies following the discovery of her body on April 30 - 10 days after she was reported missing.

He was later charged with her murder.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...ce-policy-payout/story-e6freoof-1226559568314


I wonder when these policies were started? It is odd to be insured for such a large amount without a mortgage and she already held assets in a trust with her own family members. Two policies seems extravagant to my amateur eye and quite a monthly expense for a strained budget. I wonder if gbc was insured for as much?
 
  • #433
With all due respect Alioop, (I respect and your posts considerably.)
I doubt very much if sleep was on the agenda at all that night 19 April.
Just supposing there WAS a blazing blue, (dunno about you, but for me, after an argument, that takes HOURS to put away with); then the sleep factor would have been HOURS away also. Many hours away.

Good point ladybird, but maybe blazing arguments were common between them. My point was mainly that if there was evidence of sleeping medication in her system that would have milked for all it was worth as part of the suicide theory. It would have concentrated in the liver too like the Zoloft and there would have been massive amounts of both drugs in the liver.
 
  • #434
I wonder when these policies were started? It is odd to be insured for such a large amount without a mortgage and she already held assets in a trust with her own family members. Two policies seems extravagant to my amateur eye and quite a monthly expense for a strained budget. I wonder if gbc was insured for as much?

The policies were years old. GBC was insured also for a lot more than Allison.
 
  • #435
Court to hear case involving Allison Baden-Clay's insurance policy payout

January 23, 2013

THE company holding Allison Baden-Clay's second life insurance policy will head to court next month to determine who should get the money.
Mrs Baden-Clay's husband Gerard made claims on both her life insurance policies following the discovery of her body on April 30 - 10 days after she was reported missing.

He was later charged with her murder.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...ce-policy-payout/story-e6freoof-1226559568314

I'm confused, did he make the claim the same day as the body was discovered? If so, don't you have to wait for confirmation of identity? If so, it's quite a tell that he already knew she was dead. I suspect normal behaviour would be to hope its not your loved one until officially confirmed. Does anyone know the exact timeline on this?
 
  • #436
Couldbe, I think they have plenty of evidence for the committal and for the purposes of convincing a magistrate to commit him for trial on just the stuff we know such as the face scratches, the lies and inconsistencies, the activity on his phone when he said he was asleep and the insurance issues together with their extreme financial stress. Whether they have enough for a trial to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt remains to be seen.

Edit. Oops forgot to mention Allisons blood in the car and likely her hair stuck in that blood, the screams heard by the neighbours and the 6 species of plants found on her that are also found on their back patio. Yes indeed, lots of evidence which when looked at as a whole is pretty compelling.

Pondering the idea that Scraps's "evidence" may have contributed to the bringing down of GBC, it made me want to look at how much bad luck or bad management went into this murder, and how close he might have come to pulling it off.

Unpreventable evidence as found-

Allisons sreams
The fingernail scratches on GBC
Scraps' barking
Allisons body being found


Preventable evidence-

Flora on Allison
Inconsistencies when giving his version of her walking route
Notable absence from search efforts
Unwilling to provide a formal statement
VERY early employment of a legal team
Phonecalls before and after murder/death to Insurance companies- all of them
Operating a alias email account to lover, telling her he had to lay low for a while
Refusal by parents to provide a statement (doesn't look good)
Allisons blood and hair??? in car
Incriminating internet searches
Phone activity when he was meant to be asleep
?? sighting at roundabout of one or both or some cars.


Notably lacking in this evidence is a cause of death, and any evidence placing GBC at Kholo Creek.
He very nearly could have pulled off this murder had it not been for his other activities at the time of her disapperance and discovery.

Had it not been for the few "unpreventable/unplanned things that provided clues to what had occurred, and if he'd had a slightly more credible story for police, such as the one suggested on here the other day about her walking at night and not returning, (that was a very clever too by the way) ,alarm bells may not have gone off at all, and he may have pulled this off if he had taken his own advice and really laid low for a good while.

Oh, and acting like he was upset might have helped too!!!!! lol




Just thoughts again, all for what its worth. :twocents:


Oh, and go Allison and Scraps!!!!!!!!! We're cheerin" you.
 
  • #437
Good point ladybird, but maybe blazing arguments were common between them. My point was mainly that if there was evidence of sleeping medication in her system that would have milked for all it was worth as part of the suicide theory. It would have concentrated in the liver too like the Zoloft and there would have been massive amounts of both drugs in the liver.

I would agree about the arguments - constant loud late night arguments - they probably just pulled the covers up and tried to block them out :(
 
  • #438
BTW, its so annoying how quickly websleuths logs you out. It often happens when I'm typing a post and I go to post and I lose it all. Wish it would save it til you re-log in.
Maybe thats their way of saying I'm typing too much!!! lol
 
  • #439
The policies were years old. GBC was insured also for a lot more than Allison.

He was insured for more? It would have been more financially viable then had he killed himself.
 
  • #440
He was insured for more? It would have been more financially viable then had he killed himself.

Oh yes and much better all round :floorlaugh:
 
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