Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #41

Status
Not open for further replies.
  • #441
Yes, Scraps had a message for us that something unusual was going on at the back of the B-C rented house that night. Allison left her message on GBC's scratched chest, underarm, neck and face. Agree, both Scraps and Allison's messages need to be taken into account IMO.
Unfortunately I cannot add anything to your brilliant sleuthing however when it comes to dogs I can share some experiences. I have a 16 week old british bulldog - bombastic, fully energy - and doesn't mind sharing it with my 14 year old pug - who I might add does not enjoy the playfullness. Over the last week my bulldog kept sniffing an area on the pug - which revealed a very small lump. I couldn't understand the change from him being so boisterous to so placid over the period of a week. It turns out that she has a cancer which was picked up by my bulldog - hence the change in his interaction. Your right scraps would have known what was going on IMO.
 
  • #442
The policies were years old. GBC was insured also for a lot more than Allison.
What kind of Insurance/Investments did GBC have Alioop? Presumably, a family member could be paying the premiums, so hypothetically, could he still come into a lot of money even if he spends 15 years in jail? Is that correct? The Federal Court may need to determine who gets what monies; e.g. if GBC 'squirrelled' away money earned during the marriage to Allison, then a portion of that may rightfully belong to Allison, to be passed on to her beneficiaries.
My opinion only.
 
  • #443
I'm confused, did he make the claim the same day as the body was discovered? If so, don't you have to wait for confirmation of identity? If so, it's quite a tell that he already knew she was dead. I suspect normal behaviour would be to hope its not your loved one until officially confirmed. Does anyone know the exact timeline on this?

Justifiable confusion Groundedgirl.

April 30, 2012

Mrs Baden-Clay's body was found by a canoeist at Kholo Creek.

Police allege Mr Baden-Clay contacted his financial advisor who made a "further query" with one of the life insurance providers.

May 1, 2012

One of the life insurers was advised "of a pending claim on that policy" by Mr Baden-Clay's financial advisor. Mrs Baden-Clay's body was yet to be formally identified.

Police allege Mr Baden Clay "urgently sought a death certificate for the deceased".

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...d-badenclay-20120626-210bz.html#ixzz2IktYQJ7M
 
  • #444
I'm confused, did he make the claim the same day as the body was discovered? If so, don't you have to wait for confirmation of identity? If so, it's quite a tell that he already knew she was dead. I suspect normal behaviour would be to hope its not your loved one until officially confirmed. Does anyone know the exact timeline on this?

Yes he did. Apparently on the day Allison was discovered on the riverbank he rang the insurance company and wanted an immediate payout. He was informed that an identity and death certificate were required and he was not happy with this. When Allison was identified he rang again and was told he needed to wait for the death certificate. This has been reported before and mentioned in court. I assume these calls were recorded by the insurance company as they all seem to be these days. I agree surely it won't go down well with the jury.
 
  • #445
Unfortunately I cannot add anything to your brilliant sleuthing however when it comes to dogs I can share some experiences. I have a 16 week old british bulldog - bombastic, fully energy - and doesn't mind sharing it with my 14 year old pug - who I might add does not enjoy the playfullness. Over the last week my bulldog kept sniffing an area on the pug - which revealed a very small lump. I couldn't understand the change from him being so boisterous to so placid over the period of a week. It turns out that she has a cancer which was picked up by my bulldog - hence the change in his interaction. Your right scraps would have known what was going on IMO.
Great! I was so hoping someone would come here and tell their personal accounts. (Was also nervous about being shot down in flames.)
I also know of a horse dog relationship. Almost the same as your story. Dog picked up that the horse had cancer. Dog even knew where that cancer was. Unfortunately too late to save the horse. Cancer had gone too far.
It must be to do with the sixth sense or are there more?
If only Scraps could speak good English. Good dog, Scraps.
PS I never heard that Scraps was howling. Would appreciate further information in this regards.
 
  • #446
I'm confused, did he make the claim the same day as the body was discovered? If so, don't you have to wait for confirmation of identity? If so, it's quite a tell that he already knew she was dead. I suspect normal behaviour would be to hope its not your loved one until officially confirmed. Does anyone know the exact timeline on this?

But wait, there's more:

12 April 2012 (That is seven days prior to her death.)

GBC was alleged to have phoned insurers about his wife's life insurance policy.


And in case you are in any doubt as to business as usual, or was the Insurance money of any particular relevance; After "it had all blown over"......

May 21, 2012 A death certificate for Mrs Baden-Clay was issued. Police allege Mr Baden-Clay lodged claims with each of Mrs Baden-Clay's policies and "further asked that these claims be expedited".

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...d-badenclay-20120626-210bz.html#ixzz2Ikyl1wqm
 
  • #447
But wait, there's more:

12 April 2012 (That is seven days prior to her death.)

GBC was alleged to have phoned insurers about his wife's life insurance policy.


And in case you are in any doubt as to business as usual, or was the Insurance money of any particular relevance; After "it had all blown over"......

May 21, 2012 A death certificate for Mrs Baden-Clay was issued. Police allege Mr Baden-Clay lodged claims with each of Mrs Baden-Clay's policies and "further asked that these claims be expedited".

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...d-badenclay-20120626-210bz.html#ixzz2Ikyl1wqm

Well, at least he didn't show up to their head office at 9am in the morning, carrying a large burlap sack with a $ sign on it, and demanding to be paid in cash...

...at least, not as far as I know.
 
  • #448
Interestingly and coincidentally, this name crops up several times. Eg GBC asking him for a loan, GBC asking about street cameras and his report of hearing screams. These contacts have been reported by MSM.

Only have time for a quick response as I'm at work, also don't have my list of references so can't reference MSM here (will when I get home promise). This issue of the Bruce Flegg / GBC relationship does hold some interest for me. Being involved in politics and having faced pre-selections and elections, I was drawn by the connection. From my brief look at it, it seems GBC ran for pre-slection AGAINST BF when BF was first elected. One of the MSM articles quotes another MP saying that GBC was the best candidate available in that pre-selection, meaning of course better than BF. I wonder what shenanigans might have happened behind the scenes that made the "better candidate" perhaps step aside and then come seeking assistance later.

Absolutely, and without a doubt, all MOO. Any suggestion that any sitting or previous MP acted innappropriately is completely unintentional.
 
  • #449
I agree with all of this but I kind of struggle with the shower curtain idea. Was this confirmed? Going to the effort of unclipping the curtain from the shower rail to wrap her in it? Wouldnt they have just used an blanket or towel? Didnt someone post photos of the bathroom from the real estate listing - was the shower curtain missing?

Trying to imagine them redressing Allison but I guess that they would have had to if she was in pyjamas/nightie etc. Bit hard to pull off the "murdered whilst out walking" theory if she was in sleepwear.

I get that NBC might have been keeping a lookout at the roundabout at Kenmore while GBC is disposing of the shower curtain in a dumpster behind the supermarket area, but if NBC was in the second car...why would he get out of it to go and sit in a bus stop? Wouldnt he just sit and wait in his car and watch from there? And what exactly was he watching for -police car?

I reckon he would have stood out like the proverbial and attracted more attention from the boys in blue by sitting in a bus stop at that hour of the night!

Good sleuthing though! And this SOO frustrating trying to make sense of the BC's actions that night.:banghead:

....see exactly you mean by all of your comments. Can't help but wonder how the heck Olivia's husband copes with all the doubt he must have .....wondering about the clandestine activities that seem to have occurred. Nobody seems to know if he was also staying at the BC Senior residence at the time of the murder occurrence.
With Elaine and Nigel having given statements to the Police on the day Allison was reported missing, they too must surely being 'packing it' with what has seen the light of day since Allison was reported missing!
 
  • #450
  • #451
Only have time for a quick response as I'm at work, also don't have my list of references so can't reference MSM here (will when I get home promise).

respectfully snipped

Dont you hate it when work gets in the way of websleuths???????? :)
 
  • #452
What kind of Insurance/Investments did GBC have Alioop? Presumably, a family member could be paying the premiums, so hypothetically, could he still come into a lot of money even if he spends 15 years in jail? Is that correct? The Federal Court may need to determine who gets what monies; e.g. if GBC 'squirrelled' away money earned during the marriage to Allison, then a portion of that may rightfully belong to Allison, to be passed on to her beneficiaries.
My opinion only.

No more premiums would be payable on Allisons policies as she is deceased so they are payable and have now been paid out by way of payment into the court. One of the polices was overdue when she died but the policy was still valid. I think insurance companies have a grace period of at least one month before the policy lapses.

Unless someone is paying the premiums on GBCS own policies , they will lapse when they become due for renewal. Hopefully someone is paying them. At the time of Allisons death he had income protection and a few life insurance polices as well as business insurance. So if he died Allison would have got about $2 million. He was twice as much insured as Allison. Their insurances were not unusual for a couple who owned their own business and had young children.
 
  • #453
I am disappointed to hear that the TAL policy has not already been paid to the estate. As we hadn't heard about it before I thought it must have been paid to the estate. In the estate Mr Dickie can use it for legal fees and expenses in performing his job as administrator rather than use his own money. Hopefully there are other estate funds there to fund his administration expenses.

Whether the insurance money is held by the court or by Mr Dickie as interim administration won't help GBC if convicted as by law he can't benefit financially from her death so he won't get the money. He clearly does not want the insurances paid to the estate in case he is acquitted. Now that the girls by way of a litigation guardian have filed an family provision application to ensure they are adequately provided for in the event of an acquittal, he doesn't want to have to have a legal fight with them to get the money. But be careful what you wish for GBC as you have creditors lurking!
 
  • #454
Pondering the idea that Scraps's "evidence" may have contributed to the bringing down of GBC, it made me want to look at how much bad luck or bad management went into this murder, and how close he might have come to pulling it off.

Unpreventable evidence as found-

Allisons sreams
The fingernail scratches on GBC
Scraps' barking
Allisons body being found


Preventable evidence-

Flora on Allison
Inconsistencies when giving his version of her walking route
Notable absence from search efforts
Unwilling to provide a formal statement
VERY early employment of a legal team
Phonecalls before and after murder/death to Insurance companies- all of them
Operating a alias email account to lover, telling her he had to lay low for a while
Refusal by parents to provide a statement (doesn't look good)
Allisons blood and hair??? in car
Incriminating internet searches
Phone activity when he was meant to be asleep
?? sighting at roundabout of one or both or some cars.


Notably lacking in this evidence is a cause of death, and any evidence placing GBC at Kholo Creek.
He very nearly could have pulled off this murder had it not been for his other activities at the time of her disapperance and discovery.

Had it not been for the few "unpreventable/unplanned things that provided clues to what had occurred, and if he'd had a slightly more credible story for police, such as the one suggested on here the other day about her walking at night and not returning, (that was a very clever too by the way) ,alarm bells may not have gone off at all, and he may have pulled this off if he had taken his own advice and really laid low for a good while.

Oh, and acting like he was upset might have helped too!!!!! lol




Just thoughts again, all for what its worth. :twocents:


Oh, and go Allison and Scraps!!!!!!!!! We're cheerin" you.

Hi Obsessor. I like your thinking about preventable and unpreventable evidence. It escapes me where I read this, but in murders the murderer generally only plans the actual murder - they don't consider the body disposal or anything after the actual murder. So maybe GBC was simply in panic mode and didn't think through what he was doing. Anyway arrogance can mask clear logical thinking.
 
  • #455
Well, at least he didn't show up to their head office at 9am in the morning, carrying a large burlap sack with a $ sign on it, and demanding to be paid in cash...

...at least, not as far as I know.

By the sound of it he may as well have.. It couldn't look any worse, I am in total disbelief about the behaviour re the policies.
 
  • #456
No more premiums would be payable on Allisons policies as she is deceased so they are payable and have now been paid out by way of payment into the court. One of the polices was overdue when she died but the policy was still valid. I think insurance companies have a grace period of at least one month before the policy.

Yes Ali, I don't have the link right now but it was reported that the first policy was overdue and the BCs had been contacted by the insurer about this, and they were given a date in May 2012 by which the policy would be cancelled. It was interesting timing.
 
  • #457
Hi Obsessor. I like your thinking about preventable and unpreventable evidence. It escapes me where I read this, but in murders the murderer generally only plans the actual murder - they don't consider the body disposal or anything after the actual murder. So maybe GBC was simply in panic mode and didn't think through what he was doing. Anyway arrogance can mask clear logical thinking.

Thanks Breaking News. I found it interesting too. A lot of discussion has assumed it was unplanned because of all the "stupid" stuff that has come out, but really, when you look at it, the actual murder was possibly one he could have gotten away with.

I tend to think it was planned, but like you said, the details weren't taken care of.

His arrogance and refusal to believe that anyone would not believe his version of events prevented him from finishing off the mission without flaws.

I so wish we had more pieces of the puzzle. Every time there is a hearing, the things that are revealed are so shocking and unexpected, I am reluctant to try to fill the gaps in the nights events. I would lay money on it that none of us will ever guess the real scenario of events from what we currently know.
 
  • #458
We seem to be presuming that the children were oblivious that night. The reality is that we don't know what they saw or heard (if anything). They may have heard much more than anyone is aware of. We just don't know. My heart goes out to them.

From working with women and children fleeing domestic violence, it was often the case that kids woke up to hear the fights. But fearing that dad might turn on them, or hurt their mother more, they pull the blankets up over their heads in the hope it will all go away. They are often too scared to move. I doubt that kids would get out of bed.

<modsnip>
MOO
 
  • #459
Today, 12:02 AM

marlywings
WS Moderator

Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 4,061
Court to hear case involving Allison Baden-Clay's insurance policy payout
Hi marlywings ... just noticed that you have gone from WS Mini-Mod to WS Moderator .... congratulations!! Have noticed your work on some other threads too. A well-deserved promotion in my opinion.

:)
 
  • #460
By the sound of it he may as well have.. It couldn't look any worse, I am in total disbelief about the behaviour re the policies.

I have collected the proceeds of life insurance policies for hundreds of deceased estates and have never seen anyone behave like GBC in their desperation to get the money after their loved one has died. Never! The police also think it is very suspicious behaviour and it is part of their case against him.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
132
Guests online
2,111
Total visitors
2,243

Forum statistics

Threads
632,267
Messages
18,624,108
Members
243,072
Latest member
kevynarhude
Back
Top