Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #41

[alioop]

Snails I have posted previously about this contempt issue. Marly would you be good enough to find and repost those couple of posts of mine. They may be in the previous thread. Even if I found them, I don't actually know how to repost! Thank you.

 

[Snails]

Snails I have posted previously about this contempt issue. Marly would you be good enough to find and repost those couple of posts of mine. They may be in the previous thread. Even if I found them, I don't actually know how to repost! Thank you.

Thank you and to Marly (in advance).

 

[enthralled]

If GBC punched Allison in the mouth and chipped her tooth surely she would have a slit lip or some form of bruising.

 

[alioop]

Agreed, but soft tissue damage may not have been ascertainable after 10 days.

 

[DrWatson]

<modsnip>
LadyBird: Phenergan is an antihistamine, with sedative side effects. It is often used as a mild sedative for kids, along with things like Benadryl (same group of drugs). Peoples' reactions to the antihistamines are quite variable - bit like some people with caffeine. If I have one single coffee after about 10am, I just won't sleep that night. I also get the shakes - not a good thing in my line of work

Same goes for the antihistamines - some people get VERY drowsy on them, with some almost being PUT to sleep (which is different from aiding sleep). Others, though, can have either little or no effect, or actually get stimulated instead of sedated. But a parent would know how their kids react, especially if they've had the drug before.

Phenergan could also have been used to stop the itching from those blasted caterpillar injuries.... :furious:

 

[DrWatson]

Agreed, but soft tissue damage may not have been ascertainable after 10 days.

A decent split lip would probably have been detectable, Ali. Depends on just how much soft tissue degradation there actually was. And yes - a punch causing a chipped or broken tooth would be very likely to cause a split lip. The split occurs from the inside - the impact of the lip onto the tooth, not the impact of the fist onto the lip. :twocents:

 

[marlywings]

Snails I have posted previously about this contempt issue. Marly would you be good enough to find and repost those couple of posts of mine. They may be in the previous thread. Even if I found them, I don't actually know how to repost! Thank you.

Let me know if this isn't the post & I'll have another look...

Thread #39 - post #563

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8564925&postcount=563"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #39[/ame]

 

[Liadan]

Thanks everyone for the really informative posts - the info here has really lifted from conjecture and 'what if's' to having some solid info to base theories on (full of holes but less tatty than a few months back)and imho the sleuthing is really outstanding!

 

[Liadan]

Wasn't there a rumour, or perhaps something said by an insider, way back in the beginning about the car being cleaned by NBC early in the morning? Somewhere back in my vague memory I seem to recall something being said about this. :waitasec:

Yes SA, I thought I heard that too - I am hopeless at searching but will give it a go - might master it yet but that is why I forever have NBC stuck in my mind as the 'Cleaner' - cause I heard somewhere he was cleaining and vacuuming at GBC's place when the qps arrived. Just pure pie in the sky stuff and nothing that I can base this on yet..... but will look stay tuned.

 

[Couldbe]

Yes SA, I thought I heard that too - I am hopeless at searching but will give it a go - might master it yet but that is why I forever have NBC stuck in my mind as the 'Cleaner' - cause I heard somewhere he was cleaining and vacuuming at GBC's place when the qps arrived. Just pure pie in the sky stuff and nothing that I can base this on yet..... but will look stay tuned.

....if cleaning and vacuuming when Police arrived, wonder what reason he gave for that task?

As per the link: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...d-badenclay-20120626-210bz.html#ixzz2IktYQJ7M

"Mr Baden-Clay's parents, Nigel and Elaine, gave "brief statements" to police.

The investigators allege Mr Nigel Baden-Clay did not mention the Face Time call from his son's mobile phone.

Police investigators maintain that neither Mr Nigel Baden-Clay or Mrs Elaine Baden-Clay had consented to further interviews with police.

April 21, 2012

Mr Baden-Clay voluntarily attended the Indooroopilly Police Station with his lawyers and voluntarily provided a DNA sample and allowed police to take photos of his body.

Scratches and abrasions on his chest, torso and neck were photographed."

 

[LadyBird1]

Yes SA, I thought I heard that too - I am hopeless at searching but will give it a go - might master it yet but that is why I forever have NBC stuck in my mind as the 'Cleaner' - cause I heard somewhere he was cleaining and vacuuming at GBC's place when the qps arrived. Just pure pie in the sky stuff and nothing that I can base this on yet..... but will look stay tuned.

Various mentions of the cleaning here. (I too had NBC stuck in my mind as cleaner.)

Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 - #11
www.websleuths.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-172887-p-5.html

 

[SouthAussie]

Yes SA, I thought I heard that too - I am hopeless at searching but will give it a go - might master it yet but that is why I forever have NBC stuck in my mind as the 'Cleaner' - cause I heard somewhere he was cleaining and vacuuming at GBC's place when the qps arrived. Just pure pie in the sky stuff and nothing that I can base this on yet..... but will look stay tuned.

Thanks Liadan …. I had a bit of a search but am not very good at it so could only find references to the possible rumour, not the original source.

It has always bothered me the way GBC’s story changed from “she went for a walk this morning and hasn’t returned” to “she went for a walk last night and hasn’t returned”.

There was also conjecture IIRC that a friend of Allison’s stopped by in the morning, perhaps to pick up the children due to Allison’s planned early departure for a conference? Friend could have been unsettled by no Allison and children not ready, comments from children about mummy falling down a hole, scratches on GBC’s face, NBC cleaning car, OW taking care of children, perhaps past incidences of DV, and could also have been thinking about reporting to police - so GBC thought he better modify his story and report Allison missing right away.

Be interesting to see how much of this previous conjecture turns out to be fact when the full story is told in court.

 

[Judicious]

I would like to thank each and everyone of you for your contributions to this fantastic site, I read all that you write. I wish I could put my thoughts into words as you people do.I'll have a go and do my best...
Firstly I believe if the screams heard the night Allison was killed were from kids skylarking I'm sure by now one of the kids would have come forward or even told their friends that someone yelled at them that night to 'shut up or they would ring the police'. I'm sure we would have heard from the media by now if it was kids skylarking. I believe the screams were from Allison and she would have given all that she had in those screams whilst fighting for her life and possibly running up the back yard or down the driveway trying to get away from this heartless person .The screams would have also travelled in the stillness of the night.
I also wonder if the chipped tooth could have happened when a hand was placed over her mouth to stop her screaming and she has bitten into the wedding ring of her killer. I recall reading that GBC also had scratches on the palm of his hand/s. Allison obviously put up one hell of a fight against this person.
I have to wonder when the police arrived at Allisons home the morning Allison was reported missing and they were looking for evidence of GBC being cut by a blunt razor, not only would they be looking for blood stained tissues,towel etc the police would also have been looking for the blunt razor.
When GBC was placed in his new office at AGCC and was requested to shave his whole beard off, do you think the police may have been testing how quick his beard started to regrow...as a few of you people have mentioned GBC didn't look clean shaven that day, the Police may have thought also that morning that he didn't look clean shaven either...hence alarm bells start ringing as GBC had said his scratches were from his blunt razor and we know that isn't true.
anyone have any thoughts on all this ??
this is all my opinion only...

 

[LadyBird1]

Thanks Liadan …. I had a bit of a search but am not very good at it so could only find references to the possible rumour, not the original source.

It has always bothered me the way GBC’s story changed from “she went for a walk this morning and hasn’t returned” to “she went for a walk last night and hasn’t returned”.

There was also conjecture IIRC that a friend of Allison’s stopped by in the morning, perhaps to pick up the children due to Allison’s planned early departure for a conference? Friend could have been unsettled by no Allison and children not ready, comments from children about mummy falling down a hole, scratches on GBC’s face, NBC cleaning car, OW taking care of children, perhaps past incidences of DV, and could also have been thinking about reporting to police - so GBC thought he better modify his story and report Allison missing right away.

Be interesting to see how much of this previous conjecture turns out to be fact when the full story is told in court.

Indeed, a bit of a bother with the "little" change in the story.
Was it...
“She went for a walk this morning and hasn’t returned”
or was it...
“She went for a walk last night and hasn’t returned”.

 

[Couldbe]

Indeed, a bit of a bother with the "little" change in the story.
Was it...
“She went for a walk this morning and hasn’t returned”
or was it...
“She went for a walk last night and hasn’t returned”.

LB1, I am just trying to afford him the benefit of the doubt .... if he was trying to cover his movements by saying he was asleep from about 10 pm until 6.15 am ..... then he may have also been trying to be 'accurate' in saying that Allison's walk could have occurred that night or early morning..... why he settled on the early morning walk could be that she was wearing the clothing that he described so well. (whereas the night before, she was wearing completely different clothing .... even night attire!)
I think that he could have been 'over-compensating' in mentioning the 'night before' ... JMO.

 

[Judicious]

His story about Allison going for a walk just doesn't add up (so much of what he's said doesn't add up) He says he last saw Allison watching the footy show when he went to bed, so how does he know Allison went for a walk that night..he then says Allison went for a walk this morning, how does he know Allison went for a walk if he was asleep. Neither time did he see Allison actually leave the house to go walking and yet he knew what Allison was wearing...he lives in a cloud of lies.
MOO

 

[Couldbe]

His story about Allison going for a walk just doesn't add up (so much of what he's said doesn't add up) He says he last saw Allison watching the footy show when he went to bed, so how does he know Allison went for a walk that night..he then says Allison went for a walk this morning, how does he know Allison went for a walk if he was asleep. Neither time did he see Allison actually leave the house to go walking and yet he knew what Allison was wearing...he lives in a cloud of lies.
MOO

Hi Judicious - Following link refers:http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...d-badenclay-20120626-210bz.html#ixzz2IktYQJ7M
"He said when he woke at 6.15am on April 20, Mrs Baden-Clay was not in the house but he didn't think that was unusual and assumed she was taking her normal morning walk."

..... he had to supply a 'version of events'. In doing that, he would surely try to use what he saw as a 'credible description of events'. JMOO

 

[LillyPilly]

Hello again, all you amazing people.

It's been a while since I last posted, but I have kept up to date with all your sleuthing. As always, you have continued to impress me with your theories, ideas, expert knowledge and, overall, your endless support for Allison, her girls and her parents. For all of you, here is a big virtual hug from me:

:grouphug:

Lately, I've been thinking quite deeply about Allison, because I recently read her diary entries again. From reading Allison’s diary, and considering the defence’s suicide theory, I feel that this is exactly what GBC was hoping Allison would do; that is, by putting her down and subjecting her to endless emotional abuse, Allison would cave in to her depression and take her own life. I believe this was GBC’s “Plan A”.

However, being the strong woman that she was, Allison did not succumb to GBC’s ploy. This would have frustrated him no end and lead to his “Plan B”.

Apologies in advance for the following, lengthy post. My thoughts were flowing and, as I am terrible with the time-frame side of things (despite reading all your fabulous entries many times), please forgive me for any "issues" you may find with my notes. Reasons I had the following thoughts were due to:

1) Seemingly no evidence of the Captiva being in the vicinity of where Allison's body was found; and
2) Trying to reconcile how OW could support GBC in such a strong and defiant manner (and why EBC seems almost "out of the loop").

Anyway, here goes...

• Allison returns home (circa 7pm), after visiting the hairdresser, to a typical evening at home with GBC and the kids.
• The kids, who are used to witnessing conflict between their parents, sense some tension between Mummy and Daddy, but go to bed as per their usual routine.
• The topic of TM being present at the next day’s conference is brought up. Tension escalates, a verbal row ensues.
• The kids can hear the row from their rooms, but, by now, are so conditioned to their parents fighting, that they don’t get up to check what is happening.
• The verbal stoush dissipates, but extreme tension remains. Allison heads to bed, possibly unsure about attending the conference the following day.
• GBC, mentally writhing in anger, makes his move.
• While physically attacking Allison, by strangulation, Allison fights for her life and leaves a range of scratches on GBC’s face and body.
• Allison is rendered unconscious and GBC, in a fit of panic, calls on NBC for advice.
• NBC suggests dressing Allison in her walking gear, moving her from the house and leaving her in a location away from the house, so as to make it appear that Allison has been randomly attacked while going for a walk.
• NBC offers to help carry Allison and agrees to meet GBC down the road from GBC’s house, to minimise potential witness sightings, especially by neighbours who may have heard Allison’s screams.
• While dressing Allison, GBC comes to realise that Allison is no longer breathing. After a rough, but failed, attempt at resuscitating Allison, GBC is filled with immense distress and panic, so he makes another call to NBC.
• NBC advises that they must still go ahead with their original plan.
• EBC and OW are awake, at this point, concerned about the late night calls. NBC tells them a lie, along the lines of, “Allison and GBC have had a big fight. I’m going over there, to settle things down,”
• The kids are sound asleep, so GBC leaves them at home, alone, and proceeds to an agreed meeting point, to pick up NBC. Allison’s body has been placed in the rear of the Holden Captiva. The neighbour’s dog barked incessantly, during the time Allison’s body was moved to the car.
• Upon meeting NBC, Allison’s body is moved from the Captiva and into the boot of NBC’s car. Towels and plastic sheeting, belonging to NBC, are used to line NBC’s boot. Allison’s body is then dumped at the location where it was eventually found – Kholo Creek.
• On the way back, NBC is dropped off at a bus stop, while GBC finds some industrial bins into which he can dispose of incriminating evidence - blood-stained towels, plastic sheeting etc, from NBC’s boot.
• The decision to leave NBC at the bus stop was so that NBC could monitor the Holden Captiva, which was parked nearby, plus potential witnesses to his BWANA vehicle, being driven by GBC.
• GBC quickly returns to NBC, the two men return to driving their own cars and travel back to GBC’s house.
• Clean up of both vehicles commences.
• NBC returns home. GBC calls NBC, via Facetime, to ask for advice about what steps to take in the morning. NBC tells GBC that he will go back to GBC’s house in the morning, to support him.
• GBC finishes cleaning the Captiva. He places his phone on the charger, but spends the rest of the early hours of the morning pacing the bedroom, thinking of alternative “stories” for the night’s events.
• NBC and OW arrive about five hours later, with NBC telling OW that Allison must have stormed off in anger, after fighting with GBC.
• OW, still none the wiser about the situation, agrees to take the kids to school. Just prior to this, GBC tells OW one of his various versions of the route that Allison would have taken, during her walk. He also tells OW about what he has explained to the kids.
• There is an agreement between GBC, NBC and OW that GBC and Allison’s fight should not be brought up as a reason for Allison leaving the house, because of the potential shame it could bring to GBC’s social standing. Instead, the story would centre around Allison talking one of her “usual” walks.
• GBC eventually calls the police, to state that his wife is missing.


All in MOO.

 

[Judicious]

that's what amazes me with him..he didn't see Allison leave the house and yet he can describe what Allison was wearing. If I remember rightly Allison was also wearing a pair of white joggers, I wonder if he realizes that when someone else ties your shoe laces they are tied in a different direction than if the person themselves tie them, maybe they were slip ons.
MOO

 

[Judicious]

think I made a booboo..I was trying to respond to 'couldbe' must have pressed the wrong thingy..do I press the quick reply to this message button ?..I'm a learner thank you for your response 'couldbe'