Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #42

[TootsieFootsie]

I wonder if any other things were missing from the house, ie, rug, blanket, sheet etc. Maybe a Tarp.

And did they find anything on her sneakers from her supposed 14km walk.


Sorry haven't been here much lately, an home sick with some bug.

 

[LadyBird1]

Triple posting, as I'm just catching up for the day- sorry folks.

The shower curtain bothers me as an explanation. I know there was an absent shower curtain in the house for rent photos, but really can we logically expect that because of this GBC likely used it to transprt Alliosn? There was never one mentioned in msm or in bail documents, so I think we're stretching the imagination to include that in theories.
MOO, could be wrong, and all that, but applying the keep it simple theory...
to me its a stretch.

OK- someone elses turn!! hehehe

Shower curtain not necessarily THE exact mode of transport. But something of roughly that size and strong enough to transport her in or with. Makes carriage of a dead weight easier. That's all.

 

[Fuskier]

I wonder ... <respectfuly snipped>

... And did they find anything on her sneakers from her supposed 14km walk? ...

Good point Tootsiefootsie.

 

[Obsessor]

This photo, from the compilation provided by Mani, shows the bank when it hadn't received torrential rains for days. The surface that Allison likely landed on would have been quite cushioning by the looks of this..

After the rains, it would have became a sticky, muddy bank, but initially was possibly more like this.

Woah, sorry for the size!!!!! Techno here!!!

 

[alioop]

The reason the judge considered he was a flight risk is because he faces, if convicted, the possibility of a mandatory sentence of 15 years in jail. That in itself is reason for absconding. It doesn't mean they have to go overseas, just that they won't turn up at court when they are supposed to.

The judge has to weigh up this risk against other factors, like the strength of the police evidence and they had a lot more evidence to present at the second bail hearing than the first. He also had to determine if there was any change in circumstances from the first bail hearing and the suicide theory was not such a change and he didn't think much of it anyway, so no bail.

 

[Makara]

This link is the main gateway to the Allison Baden-Clay forum. You'll see all of the various threads listed including the Media Timeline thread (that I try to keep updated as much as possible). There are also many other threads that some may not have realised existed. When I open this link I can see immediately if there has been any new activity on any of the threads. Much easier than wading through Google links of WS pages.
IMO it would be a good idea to bookmark this link as your gateway to the Allison Baden-Clay forum.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=494"]Allison Baden-Clay of Australia - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[LadyBird1]

This photo, from the compilation provided by Mani, shows the bank when it hadn't received torrential rains for days. The surface that Allison likely landed on would have been quite cushioning by the looks of this..

After the rains, it would have became a sticky, muddy bank, but initially was possibly more like this.

Woah, sorry for the size!!!!! Techno here!!!

Thankyou especially for the size! What are the red and green splotches? And is this picture of Allison's final place?

 

[DrWatson]

Could you explain what you're getting at here? I'm not with you. Ta.

It's OK - I think I've got it sussed now. I've been thinking all along that when the hydrologist said the water levels wouldn't have affected the body, he was implying that she was above the water level, both the high tide level and the flood peak level.

But it would appear that the ONLY objective of the hydrology report was to assess the possibility of the body being carried to the position where she was found, either by washing DOWN the creek, or washing INTO the creek from the river. Remember it's tidal up there, so a rising tide would see water flowing INTO Kholo Creek. The report concluded that she was NOT washed to her position, not even by the flooding. The flood peak coincided with LOW tide, and was actually lower than the next normal high tide.

So my assumption that the hydrologist said that she remained high and dry was wrong. We can see quite clearly that she would have been wet on the high tide - like the one in Makara's photo of the cleaning team at work. The position where Allison was found is below the level of the water in that picture.

So - she was NOT washed into her final position - both from the hydrology report AND the autopsy showing that she had been in that final position from very soon after death (livor mortis etc). But she would have got wet on a king tide. Maybe subsequent tides were of lower peak levels? Maybe she was dropped into water, with a splash in the dark, but in fact was only at the very edge of the water, with the tide receding after that and she just sank further into the mud where she then stayed. The water cushioning the fall somewhat, and maybe even partially floating her the metre or so UNDER the bridge from where she initially landed - before the tide then went out?

Random thoughts.....

 

[Obsessor]

Thankyou especially for the size! What are the red and green splotches? And is picture of this Allison's final place?

The dots are nothing LB1- just sunlight bouncing off the camera lens. (see them on the pylon as well)

I think this is where Allisons body was discovered, but it looked different then, after many days of heavy rain.

I also noted when looking at this picture, that the foliage is sparse. There are dried grasses and not much else.

 

[DrWatson]

Thankyou especially for the size! What are the red and green splotches? And is picture of this Allison's final place?

The red and green "splotches" (great technical term there - love it ) are just lens flare, from the camera pointing towards the sun. The shape of the flares is due to the iris diaphragm on the camera.

Allison's position was just below that first concrete footing.

The sparseness of foliage is due to this photo being taken well after that clearing crew had done their thing, and the police had long finished down there. It wasn't too hard to get down there after it had been cleared. It certainly wasn't like this before the clear-up. That bright green grass in tufts is all new growth. The brushcutters of the clearing team would have taken that down to ground level.

 

[LadyBird1]

The dots are nothing LB1- just sunlight bouncing off the camera lens. (see them on the pylon as well)

I think this is where Allisons body was discovered, but it looked different then, after many days of heavy rain.

I also noted when looking at this picture, that the foliage is sparse. There are dried grasses and not much else.

If this is the spot, some precision placement would needs be required.
Looks awful steep on the water side. Looks mighty close to that steep pinch.
Perhaps someone can confirm if this is the spot or not.

 

[Obsessor]

It doesn't look like there was much growth/foliage in this photo either- before it was cleared

I know getting from the road to the bank is very dense with growth but at the bank and under the bridge there isn't much.

 

[alioop]

Obby, I agree. The mud that you can see from that picture wouldn't have had much vegetation on it as it is in the creek that gets covered by water at daily high tide. Allison was found around the time of low tide which is why so much mud and Allison, were exposed. The vegetation mostly would be above the high tide mark and that is what was cleared.

 

[DrWatson]

It doesn't look like there was much growth/foliage in this photo either- before it was cleared

I know getting from the road to the bank is very dense with growth but at the bank and under the bridge there isn't much.

That exposed mud is the tidal mud, very sticky and goopy. It would go under on each rising tide. Hence no vegetation. But the pylons to the right of that picture - on our right of the yellow stretcher - are the ones that are smack-dab in the middle of the big picture further up this page. You can see that the vegetation to that point is very thick.

Then where the bank falls away to that tidal mud, there is no vegetation.

And Allison was found just at the base of the concrete footing of that pylon - the one in the middle of the picture up the page a bit. Just a foot or two down from there - in the muddy bit. She left a significant impression in that mud from having lain there.

Hope that all makes sense....

EDIT: sorry Ali - didn't mean to duplicate your point. Must have been posting at the same time

 

[Obsessor]

"4.04pm: Mr Boyle said Mrs Baden-Clay's body was found 14km away from the couple's home at Brookfield, at the Kholo Creek bridge.

He said there was no evidence she'd fallen, adding the water level was below the place where her body was found."

http://www.news.com.au/national/law...re-supreme-court/story-fndo4ckr-1226536987434

I'm still not with you regarding the hydrologists report Doc. (sorry)
I thought it concluded she was found above the water line?

I know the body was "set" in mud, but this doesn't mean it was from the creek rising to her position. It could just be from lying on a muddy bank and enduring days and days of rain couldn't it?

 

[Happygolucky]

I agree. There was something specific that prompted QPS to search those industrial bins. Perhaps her phone, perhaps something specific missing from the house (towels, sheets, shower curtain, etc.).

I think so far, we have been lucky that GBC was denied bail, considering now that BladeRunner is free (even when he has admitted firing the 4 shots!). Incredible!!

There has been a number of mentions that Alison's body may have been wrapped in a shower curtain. Does anyone know if the BC household had a shower curtain and, if they did, whether it was missing?

 

[DrWatson]

"4.04pm: Mr Boyle said Mrs Baden-Clay's body was found 14km away from the couple's home at Brookfield, at the Kholo Creek bridge.

He said there was no evidence she'd fallen, adding the water level was below the place where her body was found."

http://www.news.com.au/national/law...re-supreme-court/story-fndo4ckr-1226536987434

I'm still not with you regarding the hydrologists report Doc. (sorry)
I thought it concluded she was found above the water line?

I know the body was "set" in mud, but this doesn't mean it was from the creek rising to her position. It could just be from lying on a muddy bank in enduring days and days of rain couldn't it?

Obby - the water level WAS below where she lay - when she was found. But that was at low tide. That picture of Makara's a few pages back, with the cleaning crew down there, shows that the spot where the body was found is covered by water - they were obviously working there at high tide.

And when she was found, the mud was very wet and sticky, plus there was concern that the rising tide may affect the body - hence it was winched up and examined under that little tent on the bridge that had been set up for the pathologist.

The hydrology report only concluded that she could not have been washed to that position by the flow in the creek. It said nothing about the position of the body in relation to normal tidal changes in level. That was my mistake - I had been assuming, like you, that the hydrologist had implied she was high and dry ALL the time. But she wasn't. And that picture of Makara's with the clearing team shows it...

 

[Obsessor]

Obby - the water level WAS below where she lay - when she was found. But that was at low tide. That picture of Makara's a few pages back, with the cleaning crew down there, shows that the spot where the body was found is covered by water - they were obviously working there at high tide.

And when she was found, the mud was very wet and sticky, plus there was concern that the rising tide may affect the body - hence it was winched up and examined under that little tent on the bridge that had been set up for the pathologist.

Oh yes I remember the concern over the rising tide. I'm really trying to get my head around this.
I'll go back and look at all the pics again now, but I thought there was a steep bank that was the edge of the creek (where the water flowed between high and low tide), and then a less steep bank above, where Allisons body was found below the higher set of pyloms. I thought this was above the creek in both tides. Sorry for confusion. I appreciate your help.

 

[LadyBird1]

That exposed mud is the tidal mud, very sticky and goopy. It would go under on each rising tide. Hence no vegetation. But the pylons to the right of that picture - on our right of the yellow stretcher - are the ones that are smack-dab in the middle of the big picture further up this page. You can see that the vegetation to that point is very thick.

Then where the bank falls away to that tidal mud, there is no vegetation.

And Allison was found just at the base of the concrete footing of that pylon - the one in the middle of the picture up the page a bit. Just a foot or two down from there - in the muddy bit. She left a significant impression in that mud from having lain there.

Hope that all makes sense....

EDIT: sorry Ali - didn't mean to duplicate your point. Must have been posting at the same time

Funny thing about mud that is subject to tides (and I don't know if the Kholo mud does this) And it is that footprints stay imprinted in that mud for weeks sometimes. Even the water rising and falling over them.
Then again the person who placed her there was very clever at obliteration of evidences.

 

[Obsessor]

Wouldn't a body be floated out of its resting hole by a rising tide?