Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #42

[marlywings]

Obby, IMO GBC thought his report of Allison's disappearance would simply be treated as a missing person's case. He never thought for a moment that the Police would be onto him so quickly. He would have quickly realised that he was under suspicion when the crime squad were called in and that's when he started making mistakes. He didn't state early on that he thought Allison was suicidal, he said the opposite in fact. IMO he knew that Allison's body may be found eventually and he thought that it would be treated as a murder by person or persons unknown. I'm wondering if at any time between when Allison was dropped at the bridge and when her body was found 11 days later, did GBC or any other BC members go back to see if she was still there?

He found himself in the position of having to explain scratches on his face, bruising on his body and a cut on his hand. He would have been in panic mode and decided it would be a good idea to smash his friend's car into a pylon to escape a Police examination of his body. He apparently told the girls that Allison had fallen down a hole and wasn't coming back. This was related to the Police by OW and I believe what she said was "Gerard told the girls at 6:00am that Mummy had fallen down a hole and wasn't coming back. Is that OK?" IMO that comment from OW was dripping sarcasm directed to the investigators. In other words, "What do you think he's told the girls...that Mummy fell down a hole?"...etc.

What a tangled web we weave....

MOO.

I'd have to listen to it again (maybe)to check the wording, but didn't OW say "come home Allison" on tv news video, as though she'd gone off on her own. Also, in the very early days, there were suggestions or at least, thoughts, that she may have been abducted??

I wouldn't be surprised at all if at least one of the "family" made a trip to the bridge some time during those 11 days before Allison was found.

 

[they'll get you]

Makara, I am over the roundabout! Unless I have any new info I am leaving it alone.

NO! NO! PLEASE NOT THE ROUNDABOUT! lease::floorlaugh:

no mention of koppers logs please?

 

[Makara]

NO! NO! PLEASE NOT THE ROUNDABOUT! lease::floorlaugh:

no mention of koppers logs please?

:floorlaugh:

 

[they'll get you]

Her best friend, Kerry-Anne Walker, told the newspaper Mrs Baden-Clay ''wouldn't have wanted anybody to think she failed at anything''. ''She wanted that appearance that things were good. She always looked good, whether she felt bad on the inside, she always looked good,'' she said.
''She told me things and I should have done more.''

Kerry-Anne's statement sounds like it's gonna sting GBC (just a little bit-for a number of years)

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/national/frie...e-done-more-20120504-1y489.html#ixzz2LmsnbaXZ

 

[alioop]

:floorlaugh: C'mon, you know you want to Ali. :what:

Of course I want to know Makara! But I want to see or hear what witness statements the police have on it and nothing less at this stage. I am getting really picky on info these days.

 

[they'll get you]

Doc loves talking about the roundabout. :floorlaugh: Why don't we re-visit it one more time before the committal hearing? Ya with us Doc? :floorlaugh:

Doc took off pronto at the very suggestion Makara

:rollercoaster::rollercoaster:

 

[they'll get you]

:floorlaugh: C'mon, you know you want to Ali. :what:

A little lightheartedness is appreciated at this time it's good for our spirits.:great:

 

[alioop]

In the spirit of lightheartedness, anyone who wishes to discuss the roundabout, be warned, you do so at your own risk!

Unless of course you have something new to tell us

 

[alioop]

It is alleged that Allison sent her friend a text about 8.00pm that evening. IMO it would need to be established that this text was sent by Allison herself. Would it be possible that the girl friend's phone could register the location of the incoming text?
This could reveal Allison's whereabouts around 8.00pm that evening.

Good point Fuskier. If it was a normal text not an imessage between iPhones, then Allison's phone records would identify the text and calls made from her phone and the rough suburb location via cell tower. So I am sure the police have all her phone records. Though if it was an imessage they would need the phone itself to identify the particulars of the location where it was sent from. We know that GBC and Allison both had iPhones so they probably imessaged a lot but texted other friends who didn't have iphones, by a normal SMS.

 

[they'll get you]

Yep I agree re his state of mind/getting rid of her. He would have been maxed up with adrenaline as I don't think our mr modsnip was too good at planning anything. Killing her & claiming insurance may have been in his muddled mind for some time in the future but I don't think there was any plan at all that night. Either way, whether her body was found in the mud under the bridge or in Brisbane River, he would have later figured he'd be able to make the insurance claim because his story was "she'd suicided".

I can imagine Allison arriving home looking gorgeous after the hairdo. They were broke, he's probably flipped out when he heard she'd spent money on herself & to be spiteful he told her the precious TM was going to be at the conference the following day. Allison launched at him & scratched into his face....he's punched her & knocked her out (one punch can & does kill) for hurting/scarring his pretty (in his mind), face.

Can we fast forward the countdown clock??...lol.

OMG the blind panic would have been overwhelming, a dead body in the back, tired, worried about being away too long, who's seen me, worry about the neighbours hearing & calling the police, are the police on their way out NOW, what if the police pull me over, what the heck this is gonna have to do-here now! Watch for headlights either way......now GO!!!

I'm imagining he drove over the bridge, turned around, parked on the wrong side so his drivers door was on that side of the bridge took Allison from drivers side rear and drove home for a quick getaway. Both doors open would have partially hiden the deed.

Poor Allison, it's just too sad......

 

[Makara]

MAKARA, thanks for the link to the media timelines on the WS Allison Baden-Clay thread.
I found the map by Neuromancer, of the geographic areas in question, interesting, i.e. the one with the blue and red stars marked. I have again questioned where Allison was first attacked. We know that she was also on/around the back patio of the Brookfield house from plant material found in her hair and cothing. It is possible that there is an assumption that Allison was subjected to a one-off fatal attack at Brookfield. However, it is also possible that she was subjected to two attacks i.e. first attacked along Rafting Ground Road area, taken home, changed into walking clothes, regained consciousness, then second attack i.e. finished off with a blow to the head, dragged through the vegetation around the patio towards the car etc. This could account for the rivulets of blood in the car. We just don't have enough information to be certain either way, so this is also open for consideration IMO.

Thanks Fuskier. IMO Allison was only subjected to one attack or assault which resulted in her death. I believe that she changed her clothes when she arrived home from the hairdresser. Got into something more comfy while getting organised for her early start the next morning. I also believe that GBC and the girls were at skull manor and arrived home after Allison. Once the girls were in bed that's when it all hit the fan.

The report of vegetation, both from Brookfield and Kholo Creek, is interesting and I do believe that Allison's body was removed via the back door of the Brookfield house and loaded into the back of the Captiva. Having said that it can be argued that the Brookfield vegetation found on Allison could have come to be there by her simply brushing against any of the foliage as she returned home from the hairdresser that night. She may have gone out the back to retrieve clothes off the line, she may have sat out there enjoying a drink. It's also been stated that all six plant types found on Allison's body were akin to vegetation found at the Brookfield house and only two of those were also consistent with vegetation at Kholo Creek. So it doesn't really prove anything other than Allison had plant matter on her that is consistent with the vegetation at her home and could have come to be on her while she was still alive. This is something the defence will pounce on I'm sure.

IMO the rivulets of blood found in the Captiva came from either Allison's nose, an ear or the side of her head. I also believe that GBC had no idea that the blood was there. He had not gotten around to putting the rear seats back into their upright position when he reported Allison missing. He'd simply reversed the Captiva into the carport. He never thought for a minute that he would be under suspicion and eventually arrested for Allison's murder. Even though Allison was now deceased she had the last say on the matter!

MOO.

 

[alioop]

Thanks Fuskier. IMO Allison was only subjected to one attack or assault which resulted in her death. I believe that she changed her clothes when she arrived home from the hairdresser. Got into something more comfy while getting organised for her early start the next morning. I also believe that GBC and the girls were at skull manor and arrived home after Allison. Once the girls were in bed that's when it all hit the fan.

The report of vegetation, both from Brookfield and Kholo Creek, is interesting and I do believe that Allison's body was removed via the back door of the Brookfield house and loaded into the back of the Captiva. Having said that it can be argued that the Brookfield vegetation found on Allison could have come to be there by her simply brushing against any of the foliage as she returned home from the hairdresser that night. She may have gone out the back to retrieve clothes off the line, she may have sat out there enjoying a drink. It's also been stated that all six plant types found on Allison's body were akin to vegetation found at the Brookfield house and only two of those were also consistent with vegetation at Kholo Creek. So it doesn't really prove anything other than Allison had plant matter on her that is consistent with the vegetation at her home and could have come to be on her while she was still alive. This is something the defence will pounce on I'm sure.

IMO the rivulets of blood found in the Captiva came from either Allison's nose, an ear or the side of her head. I also believe that GBC had no idea that the blood was there. He had not gotten around to putting the rear seats back into their upright position when he reported Allison missing. He'd simply reversed the Captiva into the carport. He never thought for a minute that he would be under suspicion and eventually arrested for Allison's murder. Even though Allison was now deceased she had the last say on the matter!

MOO.

Good post Makara. I think you are spot on.

 

[Makara]

Good post Makara. I think you are spot on.

Thank you. So now can we talk about the roundabout? :floorlaugh:

 

[marlywings]

Thank you. So now can we talk about the roundabout? :floorlaugh:

Ok............ :

 

[alioop]

.......

 

[Obsessor]

You guys crack me up!!!!

Wonderful, friendly banter on here this weekend. A great group of people. IMO.. MOO.. IMHO..etc etc etc (dont ask for a link for that one please Marly, lol)

 

[Happygolucky]

Thanks Fuskier. IMO Allison was only subjected to one attack or assault which resulted in her death. I believe that she changed her clothes when she arrived home from the hairdresser. Got into something more comfy while getting organised for her early start the next morning. I also believe that GBC and the girls were at skull manor and arrived home after Allison. Once the girls were in bed that's when it all hit the fan.

The report of vegetation, both from Brookfield and Kholo Creek, is interesting and I do believe that Allison's body was removed via the back door of the Brookfield house and loaded into the back of the Captiva. Having said that it can be argued that the Brookfield vegetation found on Allison could have come to be there by her simply brushing against any of the foliage as she returned home from the hairdresser that night. She may have gone out the back to retrieve clothes off the line, she may have sat out there enjoying a drink. It's also been stated that all six plant types found on Allison's body were akin to vegetation found at the Brookfield house and only two of those were also consistent with vegetation at Kholo Creek. So it doesn't really prove anything other than Allison had plant matter on her that is consistent with the vegetation at her home and could have come to be on her while she was still alive. This is something the defence will pounce on I'm sure.

IMO the rivulets of blood found in the Captiva came from either Allison's nose, an ear or the side of her head. I also believe that GBC had no idea that the blood was there. He had not gotten around to putting the rear seats back into their upright position when he reported Allison missing. He'd simply reversed the Captiva into the carport. He never thought for a minute that he would be under suspicion and eventually arrested for Allison's murder. Even though Allison was now deceased she had the last say on the matter!

MOO.

Thanks for your post Makara. This vegetation has puzzled me somewhat, but have not seen it discussed in detail (maybe I missed it). From the reports that I read in the Courier mail the material was found around the head, arms and body does not comment on large amounts. The prosecution presented this as new evidence establishing Alison at Brookfield and in the area of her back patio. However, as you said she could have easily taken a walk to the back yard when she got home (probably before GBC and the girls). Or the "comfy clothes" she changed into could have been worn before and had plant material on them. We don't always wash casual clothes every day. I believe this information could be consistent with the suicide theory if Alison jumped from the bridge which was put forth by Mr Davis at the last bail application.. That of course leaves a big gap in how she actually got to the bridge but the prosecution have no evidence how GBC got to the bridge. There was no physical evidence eg. mud, plant material, photographs going through roundabouts etc. that placed GBC at Kholo either. Dr Watson could the bruising to the chest wall and even the chipped tooth be consistent with a jump from the Kholo bridge?

The assumption has been made that the "rivulets of blood" are Alison's but it appears that they were only luminol tested and as yet there has been no evidence presented of DNA confirmation. This was reported in the Courier Mail following the second bail application. This aspect of the evidence I will await with interest. Makara where was it reported that GBC had not got around to putting up the seats into an upright position before he reported Alison missing to the police? I don't disbelieve you, I just don't recall having read that anywhere.

Maybe I am grasping at straws and would, for the girls sake, not wish their father to be found guilty of their mother's murder.

I keep returning to the scratches on GBCs face. Given his personality type would he have admitted if Allison actually did scratch his face in anger? and then left the home.?? Given his past history of lying and deceipt would he have admitted to the police in the morning if this had happened?

I believe the defence will take the angle of either suicide or random attack. I think Dr Watson quite successfully debunked the overdose of Zoloft theory but, if she was upset, took extra Zoloft to ease the hurt, would suicide by a different means eg jumping off the bridge be a possibiility?

 

[DrWatson]

Dr Watson could the bruising to the chest wall and even the chipped tooth be consistent with a jump from the Kholo bridge?

I'm back - it wasn't the talk of the roundabout that sent me away, it was work.

Re the above question - they could be CONSISTENT, but I suspect not. There is nothing to suggest the age of the small chip on the tooth - could be old or new. The bruising on the chest wall was quite minor, and would perhaps be more consistent with a struggle, eg being held down with a knee etc. A jump, fall, or drop from the bridge COULD have done it if she'd landed on something fairly localized, eg a rock, but without evidence of external trauma or broken ribs overlying the bruise (there were none), it would be stretching things a bit to suggest that the fall did that, whether it was a jump or a drop.

Now - what was that about the roundabout again, Makara? :floorlaugh:

 

[Thinking]

The discussion over the past few days has been very interesting, thought-provoking and enlightening - thanks everyone! I'm so pleased I'm not the only one who spends a lot of time thinking about this case and in particular, Allison.

 

[Liadan]

Good point Fuskier. If it was a normal text not an imessage between iPhones, then Allison's phone records would identify the text and calls made from her phone and the rough suburb location via cell tower. So I am sure the police have all her phone records. Though if it was an imessage they would need the phone itself to identify the particulars of the location where it was sent from. We know that GBC and Allison both had iPhones so they probably imessaged a lot but texted other friends who didn't have iphones, by a normal SMS.

Hmmm, interesting, our whole family have iPhones and we rarely do anything with the Apple functionality and use text and phone.