Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #43

[Sleuthis-maximus]

Also the use of the 'exclusive' acronym IKYK... And the possibly posting of this on the Facebook ? This has all the hallmarks of a dangerous and crazy fantasy land. I still can't believe the secret retrospective Bruce Overland email....

 

[whitechapel]

Despite all the new evidence, there is so much more yet to see.

Hundreds of other witness statements, analysis of vacuum cleaner contents, muddy shoe analysis, many other phone records from GBC's other phones, skype chat history, TM phone and computer records, geographical plots of phone movements (like Jill M case), daughters handwritten note, daughter's mobile phone analysis, RA notes, forensic report from crime scene, hair analysis from Captiva etc...

Imagine the hours consumed by this case by witnesses, investigators, lawyers for both sides and WS members. We have not even reached the trial stage yet.

 

[linette]

19th April (evening)
5 x calls (all less than 20secs) from OFFICE to GBC in 5 minutes period between 5.01pm and 5.06pm
Someone in the office was keen to contact GBC at this time.

2 x calls from GBC to KR mobile (0430 413 877) at 5.10pm (the other person going to conference with Allison the next day)
No more calls from GBC’s phone until he called Allison’s phone the next morning at 6.32pm which diverted to voicemail.
QUESTION: Does anybody else think this is a little strange for a man with a phone glued to his ear?

In one minute (8.22~8.23pm) GBC sent 14 txt messages !
• 0412554274 x 2 (JM- female real estate agent)
• 0439707222 x 2 (unknown)
• 0401149013 x 2 (Allison)
• 0400888300 x 2 (unknown but someone linked to GBC (MNET SUFFIX is call plan group I think)
• 0430 413 877 x 2 (KR - person Allison was going to conference with)
• 0400466100 x 2 (NBC)
• 0430844963 x 2 (unknown)
Last txt sent by GBC was 8.23pm on 19th

NO TXT sent by GBC on the morning of the 20th until 11.17am

QUESTION: Where are the ‘good morning Allison’ txt messages????
QUESTION: Were these sent by imessage (iphone to iphone) instead of sms?
QUESTION: If so, why these imessages and not the ones at 8.22pm the previous night?

Allison’s last call was to OW at 8.28pm

I'm wondering if because alot of the those messages were 2 to the same person, if the messages accidentally sent twice? I know alot of people have trouble with that. However, that is still alot of messages in a short time.

Wonder why he'd be ringing KR?
Regarding the calls from the office to GBC's phone, could this be someone who got wind of how angry TM was and trying to warn him? Maybe TM had been calling the office?

 

[linette]

Has anyone seen that episode of "The Good Wife" according to the TV guide it was Series 3 Episode 14. May have to find it to see if it actually references "Taking the fifth".

I was wondering the same, I'm sure police have checked that out.
Still have to wonder if that was the real reason that he searched it though. Maybe he thought "Wow, that could come in handy."

 

[KG1]

Originally Posted by whitechapel
19th April (evening)
5 x calls (all less than 20secs) from OFFICE to GBC in 5 minutes period between 5.01pm and 5.06pm
Someone in the office was keen to contact GBC at this time.

2 x calls from GBC to KR mobile (0430 413 877) at 5.10pm (the other person going to conference with Allison the next day)
No more calls from GBC’s phone until he called Allison’s phone the next morning at 6.32pm which diverted to voicemail.
QUESTION: Does anybody else think this is a little strange for a man with a phone glued to his ear?

In one minute (8.22~8.23pm) GBC sent 14 txt messages !
• 0412554274 x 2 (JM- female real estate agent)
• 0439707222 x 2 (unknown)
• 0401149013 x 2 (Allison)
• 0400888300 x 2 (unknown but someone linked to GBC (MNET SUFFIX is call plan group I think)
• 0430 413 877 x 2 (KR - person Allison was going to conference with)
• 0400466100 x 2 (NBC)
• 0430844963 x 2 (unknown)
Last txt sent by GBC was 8.23pm on 19th

NO TXT sent by GBC on the morning of the 20th until 11.17am

QUESTION: Where are the ‘good morning Allison’ txt messages????
QUESTION: Were these sent by imessage (iphone to iphone) instead of sms?
QUESTION: If so, why these imessages and not the ones at 8.22pm the previous night?

Allison’s last call was to OW at 8.28pm


Why the text messages to Allison? Wasn't she in the house with him?

 

[linette]

Are the signals thing a normal modern parenting technique? Sorry no kids here, but I find that very strange?

To me it reeks of him controling the kids. I think as parents we all have our little signals to the kids, a certain look, hand signals... but the way it was written in the doco's make it seem like they were dogs that had been trained to suit their master, ofcourse GBC.

I only really use signals if I'm on the phone & the kids are trying to get my attention, or someone is talking and the kids are being rude, otherwise I would tell them instead of signalling.

 

[Happygolucky]

Alarm bells rang for me when I read in the Autopsy report the description of clothing Alison was wearig. She was wearing a Bonds brand jumper size XL--that could possibly have been Alisons as people often wear baggy tops to be more comfortable. I have doubts whether the 3/4 length dark pants Katies Brand XXL were. Alison was recorded as weighing 72 kg and looks slim in photos. These would have been very baggy on her. Does anyone know if she has lost a lot of weight because, if she hasn't I could not understand them being an item of Alison's clothing. Did someone obtain from another source clothes to put on her after death? If she was dressed after death, perhaps not at her home, this would have meant someone else tied her shoe laces. As the laces were "tied on initial inspection", it would be interesting to know from which direction the laces were tied.

Have there been any reports what Alison was wearing when she went to the hairdressers? If she was in comfortable clothes she need not have changed in the evening when she came home. I also doubt she would have worn very baggy pants to the hairdressers. Also it is unlikely she would have put socks and joggers on unless she was actually going for a walk. Most would just have slip on shoes around the house. I never put socks and joggers on unless I am actually going to do some exercise. The more I read the more questions I have.

 

[linette]

Alarm bells rang for me when I read in the Autopsy report the description of clothing Alison was wearig. She was wearing a Bonds brand jumper size XL--that could possibly have been Alisons as people often wear baggy tops to be more comfortable. I have doubts whether the 3/4 length dark pants Katies Brand XXL were. Alison was recorded as weighing 72 kg and looks slim in photos. These would have been very baggy on her. Does anyone know if she has lost a lot of weight because, if she hasn't I could not understand them being an item of Alison's clothing. Did someone obtain from another source clothes to put on her after death? If she was dressed after death, perhaps not at her home, this would have meant someone else tied her shoe laces. As the laces were "tied on initial inspection", it would be interesting to know from which direction the laces were tied.

Have there been any reports what Alison was wearing when she went to the hairdressers? If she was in comfortable clothes she need not have changed in the evening when she came home. I also doubt she would have worn very baggy pants to the hairdressers. Also it is unlikely she would have put socks and joggers on unless she was actually going for a walk. Most would just have slip on shoes around the house. I never put socks and joggers on unless I am actually going to do some exercise. The more I read the more questions I have.

The size of the pants bothered me too. But we need to find out what the Katies brand sizing is like. I know some clothes are marked as XXL yet a person who is size 12 would have trouble squashing into them. Anyone know how Katies sizing is?
Also they could have been older pants she'd had for a long time and maybe just felt comfy.
Personally I think she was ready for bed, alot of people wear this stuff to bed, as we know.

 

[Happygolucky]

The size of the pants bothered me too. But we need to find out what the Katies brand sizing is like. I know some clothes are marked as XXL yet a person who is size 12 would have trouble squashing into them. Anyone know how Katies sizing is?
Also they could have been older pants she'd had for a long time and maybe just felt comfy.
Personally I think she was ready for bed, alot of people wear this stuff to bed, as we know.

I agree she could have been ready for bed. But with joggers and socks on??? THis doesn't quite ring true, unless someone else put the joggers on her.

 

[Strangeworld]

Alarm bells rang for me when I read in the Autopsy report the description of clothing Alison was wearig. She was wearing a Bonds brand jumper size XL--that could possibly have been Alisons as people often wear baggy tops to be more comfortable. I have doubts whether the 3/4 length dark pants Katies Brand XXL were. Alison was recorded as weighing 72 kg and looks slim in photos. These would have been very baggy on her. Does anyone know if she has lost a lot of weight because, if she hasn't I could not understand them being an item of Alison's clothing. Did someone obtain from another source clothes to put on her after death? If she was dressed after death, perhaps not at her home, this would have meant someone else tied her shoe laces. As the laces were "tied on initial inspection", it would be interesting to know from which direction the laces were tied.

Have there been any reports what Alison was wearing when she went to the hairdressers? If she was in comfortable clothes she need not have changed in the evening when she came home. I also doubt she would have worn very baggy pants to the hairdressers. Also it is unlikely she would have put socks and joggers on unless she was actually going for a walk. Most would just have slip on shoes around the house. I never put socks and joggers on unless I am actually going to do some exercise. The more I read the more questions I have.

Sometimes I will purchase clothes multiple sizes bigger than my normal size if they are meant to be worn tight-fitting and I want to wear them baggy. When it's stretchy fabric, it doesn't always look 'too baggy' but they sort of hang down, instead of clinging to the body - hope that makes sense!

I just find it hard to believe someone put her into clothes that weren't her own.

Definitely interested in the shoelaces - I hope they were well photographed and reveal someone else tied them.

 

[Sleuthis-maximus]

I have one clothing item from
Katie's, it's a size XL moo moo type dress and its massive. I am over 186cm and not thin and its very loose, I had it for comfort after recent surgery and it did the job but too loose for anything but lounging

 

[linette]

I agree she could have been ready for bed. But with joggers and socks on??? THis doesn't quite ring true, unless someone else put the joggers on her.

True. I suppose she could have been ready for bed, they had an argument about the TM thing, and she's threatened to take the kids, so she's put her shoes on thinking she was leaving? Long shot. But this could also be something that's made him snap when he was already volatile?

 

[linette]

I have one clothing item from
Katie's, it's a size XL moo moo type dress and its massive. I am over 186cm and not thin and its very loose, I had it for comfort after recent surgery and it did the job but too loose for anything but lounging

Thanks. Food for thought.

 

[linette]

Sometimes I will purchase clothes multiple sizes bigger than my normal size if they are meant to be worn tight-fitting and I want to wear them baggy. When it's stretchy fabric, it doesn't always look 'too baggy' but they sort of hang down, instead of clinging to the body - hope that makes sense!

I just find it hard to believe someone put her into clothes that weren't her own.

Definitely interested in the shoelaces - I hope they were well photographed and reveal someone else tied them.

Hopefully they weren't thinking if they tied the shoelaces... otherwise you would stand and tie them the way she would. Do you know what I mean? Sometimes when tying my kids laces they would be opposite me so then they'd be tied opposite... other times they'd put their feet on my lap {with them sitting beside me}and I'd be tying them from the same position they would.

 

[marlywings]

Alarm bells rang for me when I read in the Autopsy report the description of clothing Alison was wearig. She was wearing a Bonds brand jumper size XL--that could possibly have been Alisons as people often wear baggy tops to be more comfortable. I have doubts whether the 3/4 length dark pants Katies Brand XXL were. Alison was recorded as weighing 72 kg and looks slim in photos. These would have been very baggy on her. Does anyone know if she has lost a lot of weight because, if she hasn't I could not understand them being an item of Alison's clothing. Did someone obtain from another source clothes to put on her after death? If she was dressed after death, perhaps not at her home, this would have meant someone else tied her shoe laces. As the laces were "tied on initial inspection", it would be interesting to know from which direction the laces were tied.

Have there been any reports what Alison was wearing when she went to the hairdressers? If she was in comfortable clothes she need not have changed in the evening when she came home. I also doubt she would have worn very baggy pants to the hairdressers. Also it is unlikely she would have put socks and joggers on unless she was actually going for a walk. Most would just have slip on shoes around the house. I never put socks and joggers on unless I am actually going to do some exercise. The more I read the more questions I have.

Hairdressers will most likely be on the witness list. Police would have no doubt asked them for a description of the clothes Allison was wearing when she was there.

There's still three days of the committal hearing to go so the hairdressers may even be called up for that.

 

[Liadan]

19th April (evening)
5 x calls (all less than 20secs) from OFFICE to GBC in 5 minutes period between 5.01pm and 5.06pm
Someone in the office was keen to contact GBC at this time.

2 x calls from GBC to KR mobile (0430 413 877) at 5.10pm (the other person going to conference with Allison the next day)
No more calls from GBC’s phone until he called Allison’s phone the next morning at 6.32pm which diverted to voicemail.
QUESTION: Does anybody else think this is a little strange for a man with a phone glued to his ear?

In one minute (8.22~8.23pm) GBC sent 14 txt messages !
• 0412554274 x 2 (JM- female real estate agent)
• 0439707222 x 2 (unknown)
• 0401149013 x 2 (Allison)
• 0400888300 x 2 (unknown but someone linked to GBC (MNET SUFFIX is call plan group I think)
• 0430 413 877 x 2 (KR - person Allison was going to conference with)
• 0400466100 x 2 (NBC)
• 0430844963 x 2 (unknown)
Last txt sent by GBC was 8.23pm on 19th

NO TXT sent by GBC on the morning of the 20th until 11.17am

QUESTION: Where are the ‘good morning Allison’ txt messages????
QUESTION: Were these sent by imessage (iphone to iphone) instead of sms?
QUESTION: If so, why these imessages and not the ones at 8.22pm the previous night?

Allison’s last call was to OW at 8.28pm

Yes it is very interesting - but definitely this pattern of phone usage could be worked from looking at past records.

 

[Thinking]

Originally Posted by whitechapel
19th April (evening)
5 x calls (all less than 20secs) from OFFICE to GBC in 5 minutes period between 5.01pm and 5.06pm
Someone in the office was keen to contact GBC at this time.

2 x calls from GBC to KR mobile (0430 413 877) at 5.10pm (the other person going to conference with Allison the next day)
No more calls from GBC’s phone until he called Allison’s phone the next morning at 6.32pm which diverted to voicemail.
QUESTION: Does anybody else think this is a little strange for a man with a phone glued to his ear?

In one minute (8.22~8.23pm) GBC sent 14 txt messages !
• 0412554274 x 2 (JM- female real estate agent)
• 0439707222 x 2 (unknown)
• 0401149013 x 2 (Allison)
• 0400888300 x 2 (unknown but someone linked to GBC (MNET SUFFIX is call plan group I think)
• 0430 413 877 x 2 (KR - person Allison was going to conference with)
• 0400466100 x 2 (NBC)
• 0430844963 x 2 (unknown)
Last txt sent by GBC was 8.23pm on 19th

NO TXT sent by GBC on the morning of the 20th until 11.17am

QUESTION: Where are the ‘good morning Allison’ txt messages????
QUESTION: Were these sent by imessage (iphone to iphone) instead of sms?
QUESTION: If so, why these imessages and not the ones at 8.22pm the previous night?

Allison’s last call was to OW at 8.28pm


Why the text messages to Allison? Wasn't she in the house with him?

Yes? Unless he was only bringing the kids home from the seniors then?

Also the text to Olivia could have been about the sleepover the kids were purportedly having on the fri night?

 

[BJsleuth]

I haven't caught up reading yet but I did want to note something while I remembered.

I saw a post above about calls made from the office.
In the first few days on the QPS FB page there was a man who commented that Allison had been in the office with a lady that afternoon. So in my opinion Allison had worked in the office that day.

Also, I found Allison's phone records interesting, she certainly drove around a lot.

Thank you so much to whoever purchased the reports. I was hoping to have a break from here before Monday but it doesn't look like it's possible now : )

Yeah which doesn't fit with Allison being depressed and not leaving the house.

 

[linette]

About Allison's last call... to OW at 8.28pm that night. I wonder if the argument was already underway by then? If not then it was probably just a call about the kids sleepover the next night. If they had already started arguing then it could have been a "Did you know about this?" or "Do you know what he's been doing?"

The police can't prove what the call was about and at this stage OW isn't going to tell them anything other than it was about the sleepover.

 

[DCI Blake]

Has anyone seen that episode of "The Good Wife" according to the TV guide it was Series 3 Episode 14. May have to find it to see if it actually references "Taking the fifth".

This episode references 'Taking the fifth' many times. It was the episode where Will's bribery case went before a Grand Jury. Alicia during a telephone conversation with Will asked 'if he was taking the fifth' and when a Judge was called as a witness he responded to all questions asked of him "Upon the advice of Council, I am here today to assert my right under the Fifth amendment against self incrimination"