Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #43

[wewillgetyou]

. He had his phone until the 21st April. These records show he travelled that afternoon (the Friday he reported her missing) to the Gold Coast, presumably to see his criminal defence lawyer.

Of course ! :facepalm:

 

[DrWatson]

I agree that it was unusual for the Forensic Pathologist not to have walked/climbed down to the location, but the police had taken all the photographs from the scene already and he knew that. Still, I think he should have gone down to the location. IMO.

Don't forget, too, that the pathologist is not a Crime Scene Examiner (used to be called SOCOs - Scenes Of Crime Officers), and also as he mentioned in the autopsy report, getting down there was quite treacherous - the police had to be winched down there by the Fire and Rescue Service - they couldn't get down the bank (or didn't want to perhaps, for fear of contaminating a possible approach route).

But I don't think it was inappropriate for Nathan Milne not to be winched down there - the police would have noted all details of her position.

At least he insisted on her being kept in exactly the same position as she was lying when they place her on the recovery stretcher and winched her back up.

 

[drsleuth]

I believe it was because at that point QPS was already searching and had sort of control over his actions and iPhone. Calls that afternoon may have been done by QPS using his phone. Do we know at what point did the police take his phone away?

From statement Kellie Thompson: Police Officer

38. We attended the Indooroopilly police station, where MCLEOD had a conversation with the defendant about his mobile phone, at about 12:12pm MCLEOD seized the defendant's mobile and handed me the mobile phone.

39. At about 12:34, I than lodged at the Indooroopilly Property Point. the defendant;s razor with tag number 1200127233 and also the defendant's mobile phone with tag number: 1200127241


this was the 21st april

 

[bearbear]

could there be more information in allisons autopsy report which we arent privy to, or is that it? or could there be other information on another report to be used for the trial?

 

[BJsleuth]

There was nothing to stop Gerard continuing to try to call alright from someone else's phone. He had no qualms asking for money or anything. I would keep calling or at least texting and hoping, saying like 'please let someone know you're alright.' I don't care if I was told not to, I'd try anyway or at least ask one of my siblings or kids to help me by trying to make contact.

 

[Obsessor]

I'm just wondering ... will he crack at some point? I see him as a weak individual, whose world has fallen apart. Can he hold it together for as long as it takes to complete a trial? Hmm, I'm not sure. Would the defence recommend putting him on some "calming meds" to avoid risk of him having a breakdown on the stand?

I see him as a weak individual whos world has fallen apart, but he will not see it this way- he will move on to try to control and be popular in his new world, always maintaining his innocence, and projecting an impression of being a top guy. There wont be any need for calming meds. He might have lost a bit of weight if he was experiencing stress- he's clearly not.

He even tried to control the seating arrangements in the courtroom, from the goddam accuseds cell.....sheeeesh.
And, he has appeared non-fussed by the whole proceedings. Very calm I believe.

 

[DrWatson]

could there be more information in allisons autopsy report which we arent privy to, or is that it? or could there be other information on another report to be used for the trial?

I'm pretty sure that's it, Bearbear. It includes even the subsidiary reports, eg the odontologist, the forensic neuro guy (examined the brain). Even the histology (microscopic examination) of tissues where appropriate. And the toxicology.

I'm not sure that there would be much more possible to ascertain, given the advanced state of decomposition.

But you never know..... Life can be full of surprises

 

[Maigret]

Can't wait to find out what Toni-Ann Smith gave police from her diary

 

[Curiousasacat]

Life insurance- I hate to say but to me it looks ok. Allison and G were not aware of the extra super entitlements. IMO they were just looking at ways to save some money.
Allison was the one who emailed to ask if they were paying for extra insurance that the super may cover. G also had life insurance policies.

What was not ok, calling them after hearing a body had been found.

(I am trying to read over the documents again with a fresh mind, I am trying to think how someone in a jury may think)
Hope no one minds if I do this.

 

[LadyBird1]

I see him as a weak individual whos world has fallen apart, but he will not see it this way- he will move on to try to control and be popular in his new world, always maintaining his innocence, and projecting an impression of being a top guy. There wont be any need for calming meds. He might have lost a bit of weight if he was experiencing stress- he's clearly not.

He even tried to control the seating arrangements in the courtroom, from the goddam accuseds cell.....sheeeesh.
And, he has appeared non-fussed by the whole proceedings. Very calm I believe.

And if the Judge is a female, he would probably be working out how to chat her up at the same time his trial is going on. IMO.

 

[kailee]

just wondering what sort of sewage/water pipe network lay beneath the properties at brookfield?

 

[Maigret]

just wondering what sort of sewage/water pipe network lay beneath the properties at brookfield?

I think someone said earlier on that they had septic mostly

 

[Strangeworld]

I understand where you're coming from about TM. People like GBC do tend to pick someone they can get an ego boost from. With her he may have got his ego boost from her constant need to have him, she wanted him. Not being mean, but she is alot more plain to look at then the others, so maybe he hoped he could keep her where he wanted her and that she would believe his lies. But in the end she DID start making demands of him... so it went from him getting what he needed from her to her having the hide to ask for something back.
In the same way we see GBC has definite personality flaws alot of the clingy, needy people do have underlying issues aswell. Knowing how GBC is he would have played her insecurity for all it was worth.

In the end, I think no matter WHO GBC was with it always had to be about him. Either the whole "Look at me, look at me!" thing or "Keep this secret, i have an image to uphold."

And from the business partner's statements, TM was clearly a good salesperson when the relationship with GBC was good. So he benefited by giving her just enough attention (i.e. they didn't seem to be spending every second of every day sneaking around - and I get the relationship was much more emotional for her than him).

IMO, TM also shows signs of low self esteem and/or a personality disorder - mainly by her inability to leave a 'relationship' that was clearly doing her harm. It was also reported by numerous people in statements that she became very very emotional when things were not going well with GBC. She had certainly put all her eggs in one basket with GBC - she seemed very reliant on his attention to get through the day and to do her job properly. Very unhealthy. But I still don't feel sorry for her. She clearly had people around her to talk to, that were suggesting she leave GBC - there were opportunities for her to seek support to get strong enough to end the affair. I personally think part of the appeal of GBC, for her, was that she had managed to steal away another woman's man. Hard to explain, but basically she felt good because GBC was telling her she was better than Allison.

 

[enthralled]

It's quite weird - methinks someone had it in a pocket on silent when it pinged to being within 150 metres - I'm no telco but if GBC had gone looking for Allison with her phone and connected to the Figtree pocket signal and started a download that would take a while and then came back to Brookfield with the phone and hid it there would the phone (whilst downloading) not stay connected to the Figtree pocket tower ?

Catching up again here. I think ol Nige may have had the phone. IMO

 

[DrWatson]

just wondering what sort of sewage/water pipe network lay beneath the properties at brookfield?

No sewerage, Kailee. Certainly not where we are, which is pretty close to the BC house. We have one of those sewage treatment plants (BioCycle), but a lot of the older properties have septic systems. Now the BC house is on the main Brookfield road, so I can't be 100% certain that they don't have sewerage services - but I'd be very surprised if they did. There's a whole new (last 20 years) development along Rafting Ground Rd - called Huntingdon Estate - and I'm fairly sure they put in sewage when they did that, but I'm not even sure where it would be connected to. There'd need to be a pumping station to get it up the hill to Kenmore, I suspect.

The BC house would be on mains water, for sure, and hence no water tanks (good hiding places for phones etc)

 

[just desserts]

He had his phone until the 21st April. These records show he travelled that afternoon (the Friday he reported her missing) to the Gold Coast, presumably to see his criminal defence lawyer.

When he should have been with his daughters who would have been worried about their Mum! That should have been his priority, not seeing a lawyer on the day his wife went missing! Imo

 

[Strangeworld]

Life insurance- I hate to say but to me it looks ok. Allison and G were not aware of the extra super entitlements. IMO they were just looking at ways to save some money.
Allison was the one who emailed to ask if they were paying for extra insurance that the super may cover. G also had life insurance policies.

What was not ok, calling them after hearing a body had been found.

(I am trying to read over the documents again with a fresh mind, I am trying to think how someone in a jury may think)
Hope no one minds if I do this.

Don't we only have a statement from their financial advisor, not from the insurance companies? I remember hearing something early in MSM that there were other phone calls prior to Allison going missing. Maybe there were direct calls made to the insurance companies that the financial advisor wouldn't be aware of?

 

[BJsleuth]

Life insurance- I hate to say but to me it looks ok. Allison and G were not aware of the extra super entitlements. IMO they were just looking at ways to save some money.
Allison was the one who emailed to ask if they were paying for extra insurance that the super may cover. G also had life insurance policies.

What was not ok, calling them after hearing a body had been found.

(I am trying to read over the documents again with a fresh mind, I am trying to think how someone in a jury may think)
Hope no one minds if I do this.

I beg to differ on one point: the financial adviser received an email from Allison's account. Nobody can be certain that she was sender. MOO

 

[Curiousasacat]

First statement -
Allison left hairdressers at 630pm

GBC claimed saw Allison watching the footie show at 10pm and HE went to bed.

Woke at 6am and assumed she had gone for a morning walk.

715am Allison is reported missing.

Witnesses and forensic evidence leads GBC to be a person of interest.

GBC lied to doctors about having to have his injuries documented by police. Police had not requested this.

Investigations by police identify significant evidence implicating the defendant in the murder of his wife. These include - inconsistencies in versions provided to police and witness and forensic examinations.

Defendant has significant scratches to his left cheek and other injuries were observed.

Blood was found in the rear of the captiva. Allison was driving this vehicle that morning.

Defendant in dire financial trouble. A large debt was due by 30th June.

The defendant was a heavy sleeper. He was unaware if she slept in the bed that night.

Four differing accounts were given as to Allisons walking route. He advised Mr and Mrs Dickie he did not know her walking route.

Offered very early on information about cutting his face shaving and of his affair with Toni Mc Hugh.

The defendant would not tell police about the conversation with Allison on the night prior.

Journal entries found with Allison talking about the affair.

He told police Allison suffered depression but was unlikely to self harm or commit suicide.

On Wed 13th Aug 2012 defendant arrested at Toowong Village shopping centre.
He was arrested for murder. He refused to give a formal interview.

On Sat 21st April had his injuries documented via a forensic procedure. There were a number of scratch like injuries on GBC's torso and neck area. GBC advised that the scratches on his neck was from a caterpillar bite that he sustained at the school cross country. A witness backs up this claim.

GBC advised the scratch on his hand was caused by a broken light bulb - witness disputes this claim.

On Sun 22nd GBC had a car crash immediately prior to attending the police station where a second forensic order was to be carried out. GBC did not try to brake and stated he looked in his lap to his phone and did not see the wall.

GBC's phone was used while GBC was apparently fast asleep.

The children have been involved in debriefs.

Defendant in secret contact with Mistress since wife's death.



My picture here is the defendant lies a lot, to everyone.

 

[Couldbe]

Another aspect that would, IMO, indicate they know what happened! The fact that OW and NBC were already at the home when the first officers arrived, is also very telling!

GBC's Telstra Bill shows that on the 20 Apr, his first calls were to Allison...up until 6.45am.

Then, another call at 6.46am to EBC mobile (showing he was in the Mt Coot-tha tower vicinity).

Then, at 6.53am a call was made to a landline phone.

Then other calls were made to OW's mobile at: 6.55am, 7.11am. 7.19am, 7.39am (last one...then OW probably arrived at GBC's house).

......NB: no calls on the morning of 20 Apr by GBC to NBC until 12 noon (despite the fact that prior to 20 Apr there many calls to NBC logged in GBC's phone!). ... a bit strange that

There were calls by NBC to GBC on morning 20 Apr: 6.56am (Kenmore tower), 7.45am, 8.01am, 8.02am, 8.03am, 8.50am 8.51am (Brookfield tower).

What does this reveal?
..... EBC, NBC, OW supposedly all in the same house! - when first calls started coming in on 20 Apr from GBC;
..... For about half-hour, between 6.56am and 7.45am NBC was inbetween the two towers;
..... lots of fast and furious phoning between GBC, NBC and OW up until Police arrive, and while they were in attendance.