Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #44

[Obsessor]

I've been wanting to add my take on Olivia, and hope I dont cause any offense, as it is absolutely not intended. This is purely an observation of Olivia, not a generalisation.

When Olivia speaks of "the truth will one day be revealed", I think of religious leaders encouraging their parishioners to believe what they are telling them because one day the truth will all be revealed.

When she appeals to the public via the media, she is seeking our trust that the truth will be revealed, and I equate that to what the teachers and leaders in religion do when their disciples are questioning their religious "truth".
When people who have been religious hit the wall for some reason and question their own beliefs and look for proof and reasons to continue their faith- they are assured by their religious mentors that the truth will be revealed- ie judgement day, or, the day jesus will return etc etc.
The leaders cannot give them facts and proof and evidence.
All they can give them is encouragement to stay committed, and their word that the truth will be apparent IF and only IF you continue to believe!!!!

They also encourage the weaker faithed to not listen to outsiders who will be trying to sway their thoughts towards other destinies that are not in the interests of the person or their future. (To me this equates to Olivia and Ians idea that the media are trying to sway our thoughts so therefore we should not read or seek information via the media)

I dont believe Olivia has any alternative scenario for what could have happened that night. She must have had doubts at some stage that Gerard might be involved. She would have had to. But she is going to suppress these thoughts as she has before if she has had doubts about her religious faith.
What I'm suggesting is, that even though she is telling us that the truth will come out- she doesn't have any suggestion or probably even thoughts on what this might be. She is merely trying to say, it cant be Gerard. Thats what I think anyhow.

As an aside, I spent several years homeschooling my own children for reasons that were many and varied but NOT religious, and whilst doing this we came across many a family who hoemschooled because it allowed them a degree of isolation from the general community and its evil/other influences.
They wanted to maintain their puritan views and beliefs without the external influences of alternative beliefs and lifestyles.
In effect, they avoid associating with anyone whose belief system is not in line with their own.

I'm not saying that is why Olivia homeschools, but just that a fairly common trait I found amongst Christian homeschooling families was their desire to stay cocconed from society in general so that their beliefs were not threatened and scrutinised and undermined, and that the minds of their children were not tainted by outside influence.

I see Olivias refusal to acknowledge the evidence that is presented before us, as a similar thing.
To me she appears to be avoiding the evidence, so she can continue to believe what she prefers to believe, and the easiest way for her to achieve this is to block it out.
She doesnt want to doubt him, therefore she cant look at the evidence against him.


Am I making sense??
This is all MOO

 

[Zanzibar]

We don't know if she was ever considered a "suspect". Her mobile phones and computers were also confiscated and analysed. She has been interviewed at least 5 times formally, but QPS have not arrested her nor have they included her as an accomplice. I don't think she is involved in this at all. She is only one more person that was manipulated and used by GBC. IMO.

I don't know...... I have an inkling, feel it in my bones, it's the vibe..... That TM has more to do with it than currently meets the eye. I'm still intrigued by a few points...

Why did they have GBC draw a plan of her home?
Why is she drip feeding full and accurate information?
Why did she withhold and lie that she hadn't seen or spoken to him, when they had actually met?
Why is Davis so focused on who told her about others?
If not the QPS, then who?

I wonder about the possibility that TM, GBC & ABC all had a fight that evening that caused the scratches (by TM?) & an accidental murder & a joint cover up. Perhaps fanciful. Perhaps NBC & OW haven't been told the full extent but know GBC didn't do it but if they say anything then they would have to detail their and GBC's involvement..... Their lack of willingness to provide a statement says volumes to me.

Sorry for a bit of late night thinking out loud.

All MOO of course.

 

[Thinking]

IMHO only the way I see it in my head.

I think it was something GBC's desperate brain thought of as a way out of his messy financial state, then dismissed quickly as a stupid thing to even consider, but from time to time he let himself daydream about the money, and exactly how he would go about it

I think thar during a heated argument (probably IMO about TM being at the conference the next day, or perhaps even an argument about HOW he knew TM would be there - an admission to him talking to her or seeing her) the thought re-entered his mind and he went with it.

The reason that I've drawn this conclusion is because where some things seem quite thought out, other things are extremely sloppy.

I think he half planned to murder Allison, though not REALLY thinking that it was something he would or could go through with despite the (almost) million dollar prize.

Then in the heat of moment he was presented with the opportunity, and did it. Maybe his mind was even in daydream state to begin with (NOT AT ALL MAKING LIGHT OR EXCUSES)

I believe it was something that he had considered for a some time, and just needed a sitation to move the "thought" into "action"

It was last minute executed although pre-meditated and money-motivated.

Completely MOO

I agree with this. Perhaps the seed was planted when they got the letter from the insurer saying Allisons policy would expire completely if they didn't meet their May payment? Clearly there was little chance they could have met the payment which he may have seen as nearly a million down the drain....then as you say, the opportunity arose and one thing led to another...MOO

 

[Chief of Funtime]

I've been wanting to add my take on Olivia, and hope I dont cause any offense, as it is absolutely not intended. This is purely an observation of Olivia, not a generalisation.

When Olivia speaks of "the truth will one day be revealed", I think of religious leaders encouraging their parishioners to believe what they are telling them because one day the truth will all be revealed.

When she appeals to the public via the media, she is seeking our trust that the truth will be revealed, and I equate that to what the teachers and leaders in religion do when their disciples are questioning their religious "truth".
When people who have been religious hit the wall for some reason and question their own beliefs and look for proof and reasons to continue their faith- they are assured by their religious mentors that the truth will be revealed- ie judgement day, or, the day jesus will return etc etc.
The leaders cannot give them facts and proof and evidence.
All they can give them is encouragement to stay committed, and their word that the truth will be apparent IF and only IF you continue to believe!!!!

They also encourage the weaker faithed to not listen to outsiders who will be trying to sway their thoughts towards other destinies that are not in the interests of the person or their future. (To me this equates to Olivia and Ians idea that the media are trying to sway our thoughts so therefore we should not read or seek information via the media)

I dont believe Olivia has any alternative scenario for what could have happened that night. She must have had doubts at some stage that Gerard might be involved. She would have had to. But she is going to suppress these thoughts as she has before if she has had doubts about her religious faith.
What I'm suggesting is, that even though she is telling us that the truth will come out- she doesn't have any suggestion or probably even thoughts on what this might be. She is merely trying to say, it cant be Gerard. Thats what I think anyhow.

As an aside, I spent several years homeschooling my own children for reasons that were many and varied but NOT religious, and whilst doing this we came across many a family who hoemschooled because it allowed them a degree of isolation from the general community and its evil/other influences.
They wanted to maintain their puritan views and beliefs without the external influences of alternative beliefs and lifestyles.
In effect, they avoid associating with anyone whose belief system is not in line with their own.

I'm not saying that is why Olivia homeschools, but just that a fairly common trait I found amongst Christian homeschooling families was their desire to stay cocconed from society in general so that their beliefs were not threatened and scrutinised and undermined, and that the minds of their children were not tainted by outside influence.

I see Olivias refusal to acknowledge the evidence that is presented before us, as a similar thing.
To me she appears to be avoiding the evidence, so she can continue to believe what she prefers to believe, and the easiest way for her to achieve this is to block it out.
She doesnt want to doubt him, therefore she cant look at the evidence against him.


Am I making sense??
This is all MOO

Yes you are making sense to me . You speak the truth !

 

[linette]

You make a lot of sense, Obsessor. You could be right about what you've said. Religions are often about the truth being revealed.

I've also known people who home school for the reasons you mention. Good point.

 

[HeartRuledHead]

Why did they have GBC draw a plan of her home?

*they* didn't have GBC draw a plan of TMs apartment, Allison did.

 

[CaseClosed]

I don't know...... I have an inkling, feel it in my bones, it's the vibe..... That TM has more to do with it than currently meets the eye. I'm still intrigued by a few points...

Why did they have GBC draw a plan of her home?
Why is she drip feeding full and accurate information?
Why did she withhold and lie that she hadn't seen or spoken to him, when they had actually met?
Why is Davis so focused on who told her about others?
If not the QPS, then who?

I wonder about the possibility that TM, GBC & ABC all had a fight that evening that caused the scratches (by TM?) & an accidental murder & a joint cover up. Perhaps fanciful. Perhaps NBC & OW haven't been told the full extent but know GBC didn't do it but if they say anything then they would have to detail their and GBC's involvement..... Their lack of willingness to provide a statement says volumes to me.

Sorry for a bit of late night thinking out loud.

All MOO of course.

I understand what you mean. Just one clarification: GBC's drawn plan of TM's home was done at Allison's request (in their therapy evening sessions). QPS showed that plan (out of Allison's notes/diary) to TM to verify if that was her place and if it had been drawn by GBC. As to TM drip feeding info to the police, we have to understand the state of mind in which she finds herself now. In her eyes, her whole world has collapsed too, and she is not coping IMO. My boss forget things from one hour to the next (I don't), so some people do not remember every detail a first and might think of something else later. Why did she hide the fact that she did speak/meet with GBC? Because she still loves him and is trying to protect him. I don't think she meant it in any bad way. She can't stay away from him, because she is infatuated with him .. still ! IMO.

 

[HeartRuledHead]

I wish I could double or triple thank you Case Closed

 

[linette]

I understand what you mean. Just one clarification: GBC's drawn plan of TM's home was done at Allison's request (in their therapy evening sessions). QPS showed that plan (out of Allison's notes/diary) to TM to verify if that was her place and if it had been drawn by GBC. As to TM drip feeding info to the police, we have to understand the state of mind in which she finds herself now. In her eyes, her whole world has collapsed too, and she is not coping IMO. My boss forget things from one hour to the next (I don't), so some people do not remember every detail a first and might think of something else later. Why did she hide the fact that she did speak/meet with GBC? Because she still loves him and is trying to protect him. I don't think she meant it in any bad way. She can't stay away from him, because she is infatuated with him .. still ! IMO.

Haha, I was sitting here trying to think how to reply to that post, then i read what you wrote and thought "Yep, that about says it!"

 

[CaseClosed]

You're welcome ... HRH! I consider myself a fair person. And I have been at the receiving end of a cheating husband, but I never felt anger towards the mistress, only towards him, whom I divorced quickly after that. He had the commitment to me, not the other woman. I don't condone affairs, but I also understand that sometimes "love is blind" and a force to reckon with.

 

[BJsleuth]

I don't know...... I have an inkling, feel it in my bones, it's the vibe..... That TM has more to do with it than currently meets the eye. I'm still intrigued by a few points...

Why did they have GBC draw a plan of her home?
Why is she drip feeding full and accurate information?
Why did she withhold and lie that she hadn't seen or spoken to him, when they had actually met?
Why is Davis so focused on who told her about others?
If not the QPS, then who?

I wonder about the possibility that TM, GBC & ABC all had a fight that evening that caused the scratches (by TM?) & an accidental murder & a joint cover up. Perhaps fanciful. Perhaps NBC & OW haven't been told the full extent but know GBC didn't do it but if they say anything then they would have to detail their and GBC's involvement..... Their lack of willingness to provide a statement says volumes to me.

Sorry for a bit of late night thinking out loud.

All MOO of course.

I think the floorplan was to do with Allison's diary, GBC had, supposedly at Allison's request drawn it in there.

I think she was a suspect for a short time even if SHE didn't feel/think she was. I think the defence are going to say that GBC was the focus of their investigation, the only suspect and the police didn't consider other possibilities. I think the defence are trying to suggest that TM provided information to police to be vindictive after they asked about the other two affairs and receiving confirmation of that and therefore isn't a credible witness as she had an axe to grind with GBC and would say anything to get him in trouble.

 

[linette]

You're welcome ... HRH! I consider myself a fair person. And I have been at the receiving end of a cheating husband, but I never felt anger towards the mistress, only towards him, whom I divorced quickly after that. He had the commitment to me, not the other woman. I don't condone affairs, but I also understand that sometimes "love is blind" and a force to reckon with.

I agree. I also try to be very fair. We have to take into consideration how things affect people in different ways. We aren't all the same, we don't all cope the same, and sometimes 2 peoples recollection of the very same event can be different. Even that doesn't mean one of them is lying, they just see things differently.
I don't think it's fair for people to blame TM for this... I know alot don't agree but she is also a victim of this. No, she isn't dead, but nor are all of the others he's ripped off or hurt. {apart from Allison ofcourse.}
We have to remember that GBC had people in his life for a reason, and if you didn't fit into what he wanted then he had no need for you.

We can't forget all of the horrible things he said to Allison, the way he brought her down, made her feel like crap. That was him doing that.

 

[BJsleuth]

Obsessor yes it makes perfect sense.

 

[CaseClosed]

I think the floorplan was to do with Allison's diary, GBC had, supposedly at Allison's request drawn it in there.

I think she was a suspect for a short time even if SHE didn't feel/think she was. I think the defence are going to say that GBC was the focus of their investigation, the only suspect and the police didn't consider other possibilities. I think the defence are trying to suggest that TM provided information to police to be vindictive after they asked about the other two affairs and receiving confirmation of that and therefore isn't a credible witness as she had an axe to grind with GBC and would say anything to get him in trouble.

I do also think she was a person of interest in the early stages just because she was the mistress. As to the Defence trying to paint her as the woman scorn, the problem I see with that is, IMO, that she did not come across as that in her statements and in court. She appears deflated and sad.

 

[Aunty]

I don't know...... I have an inkling, feel it in my bones, it's the vibe..... That TM has more to do with it than currently meets the eye. I'm still intrigued by a few points...

Why did they have GBC draw a plan of her home?
Why is she drip feeding full and accurate information?
Why did she withhold and lie that she hadn't seen or spoken to him, when they had actually met?
Why is Davis so focused on who told her about others?
If not the QPS, then who?

I wonder about the possibility that TM, GBC & ABC all had a fight that evening that caused the scratches (by TM?) & an accidental murder & a joint cover up. Perhaps fanciful. Perhaps NBC & OW haven't been told the full extent but know GBC didn't do it but if they say anything then they would have to detail their and GBC's involvement..... Their lack of willingness to provide a statement says volumes to me.

Sorry for a bit of late night thinking out loud.

All MOO of course.

Zanzibar, I am thinking the same.
I think TM tucked her boys into bed, then went out to Brookfield to confront GBC , affairs, money, wife etc, and terrible things happened. ??? Allison is murdered.
TM , went to the conference the next day and had to go to bed early ? 3pm? TM was completely exhausted.

 

[Snails]

I've been wanting to add my take on Olivia, and hope I dont cause any offense, as it is absolutely not intended. This is purely an observation of Olivia, not a generalisation.

When Olivia speaks of "the truth will one day be revealed", I think of religious leaders encouraging their parishioners to believe what they are telling them because one day the truth will all be revealed.

When she appeals to the public via the media, she is seeking our trust that the truth will be revealed, and I equate that to what the teachers and leaders in religion do when their disciples are questioning their religious "truth".
When people who have been religious hit the wall for some reason and question their own beliefs and look for proof and reasons to continue their faith- they are assured by their religious mentors that the truth will be revealed- ie judgement day, or, the day jesus will return etc etc.
The leaders cannot give them facts and proof and evidence.
All they can give them is encouragement to stay committed, and their word that the truth will be apparent IF and only IF you continue to believe!!!!

They also encourage the weaker faithed to not listen to outsiders who will be trying to sway their thoughts towards other destinies that are not in the interests of the person or their future. (To me this equates to Olivia and Ians idea that the media are trying to sway our thoughts so therefore we should not read or seek information via the media)

I dont believe Olivia has any alternative scenario for what could have happened that night. She must have had doubts at some stage that Gerard might be involved. She would have had to. But she is going to suppress these thoughts as she has before if she has had doubts about her religious faith.
What I'm suggesting is, that even though she is telling us that the truth will come out- she doesn't have any suggestion or probably even thoughts on what this might be. She is merely trying to say, it cant be Gerard. Thats what I think anyhow.

As an aside, I spent several years homeschooling my own children for reasons that were many and varied but NOT religious, and whilst doing this we came across many a family who hoemschooled because it allowed them a degree of isolation from the general community and its evil/other influences.
They wanted to maintain their puritan views and beliefs without the external influences of alternative beliefs and lifestyles.
In effect, they avoid associating with anyone whose belief system is not in line with their own.

I'm not saying that is why Olivia homeschools, but just that a fairly common trait I found amongst Christian homeschooling families was their desire to stay cocconed from society in general so that their beliefs were not threatened and scrutinised and undermined, and that the minds of their children were not tainted by outside influence.

I see Olivias refusal to acknowledge the evidence that is presented before us, as a similar thing.
To me she appears to be avoiding the evidence, so she can continue to believe what she prefers to believe, and the easiest way for her to achieve this is to block it out.
She doesnt want to doubt him, therefore she cant look at the evidence against him.


Am I making sense??
This is all MOO

You are making so much sense Obsessor. Couldn't agree more on everything in this post. Thank you.

 

[CaseClosed]

I agree. I also try to be very fair. We have to take into consideration how things affect people in different ways. We aren't all the same, we don't all cope the same, and sometimes 2 peoples recollection of the very same event can be different. Even that doesn't mean one of them is lying, they just see things differently.
I don't think it's fair for people to blame TM for this... I know alot don't agree but she is also a victim of this. No, she isn't dead, but nor are all of the others he's ripped off or hurt. {apart from Allison ofcourse.}
We have to remember that GBC had people in his life for a reason, and if you didn't fit into what he wanted then he had no need for you.

We can't forget all of the horrible things he said to Allison, the way he brought her down, made her feel like crap. That was him doing that.

You are absolutely right! People see and perceive things very differently and something that might be important to one, may be totally trivial to someone else. Like I said yesterday, HE made a choice and HE is responsible. Nobody put a gun to his head and told him what to do (at least I don't think that's how things developed that night).

 

[Zanzibar]

*they* didn't have GBC draw a plan of TMs apartment, Allison did.

Of course yes! I read her statement saying they showed her a plan GBC had drawn & forgot about the earlier counselling sessions. A doh! moment.

Tks HRH

 

[BJsleuth]

I do also think she was a person of interest in the early stages just because she was the mistress. As to the Defence trying to paint her as the woman scorn, the problem I see with that is, IMO, that she did not come across as that in her statements and in court. She appears deflated and sad.

I agree totally. The defence will try to create doubt anyway. They could have been trying to rile her up, get her to blow up, thus showing that she's volatile and it could have been her who killed Allison. They could be trying to highlight that her memory isn't that good so she may have been mistaken about certain things. They're cunning like that.

 

[Trooper]

wellll. the thing is.. Toni isnt the woman scorned.. right up until his arrest, Toni believed she was in a committed relationship.. I think she still believes she is in that relationship..... so much so, I have a bet with my local bookie that should he be convicted, she will apply for a conjugal visit before the cell door clanks... Gerard didnt scorn her.. in her eyes, the QPS took him from her.

I hope they dont give him back to her, either.. ( just sayin...)