Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #45

[Maigret]

Dayum that is a smoking post Aunty :nuclear: and I couldn't agree more.If his phone records show him anywhere in the vicintiy of St Lucia that fateful Thursday night -cause GBC may not have stayed to have sausages with the cousins and girls - well we have collusion as far as I am concernced.:thumb:

From his phone records it looks like after the sausages he was at Brookfield for the rest of the night

 

[KG1]

How did I miss that !!!
They certainly hadn't said anything like that to the media at that point :what:

And I also don't believe that they had said anything to GBC and him alone at that point either. Large searches were being organized and I don't think the Dickies had even made their TV appeal at that time. Is this a guilty conscience speaking? I do believe that is what he said to Toni McHugh though. MOO

 

[Liadan]

KG1 - My personal favourite quote from the lovestruck TM is when she says to GBC
'Well I guess the next time I see you will be in court!'

Now is that statement just a bit of crystal ball gazing by TM?

-TM stoicly maintains (at the committal) that she never spoke to GBC about Allisons dissappearance, yet here she is knowing that GBC is likely going to be arrested -of course she discussed this dissappearance it woulld mean her whole world would be coming to an end. It meant the end of support, intimacy and a huge roadbump in her fantasy becoming a reality.

 

[Liadan]

Dayum that is a smoking post Aunty :nuclear: and I couldn't agree more.If his phone records show him anywhere in the vicintiy of St Lucia that fateful Thursday night -cause GBC may not have stayed to have sausages with the cousins and girls - well we have collusion as far as I am concernced.:thumb:

Yes - sorry I should have added that you will find that GBC doesn't use his personal phone to call TM prior to Allison's dissappearance. So I think in this regard how he does contact TM would be interesting. And from about 4:43 -5:00 when GBC makes the sausages call to her till about 7pm there is a gap in his phone calls..... So if we can pin down his movements .....

 

[Maigret]

And I also don't believe that they had said anything to GBC and him alone at that point either. Large searches were being organized and I don't think the Dickies had even made their TV appeal at that time. Is this a guilty conscience speaking? I do believe that is what he said to Toni McHugh though. MOO

Their appeal was made on the 24th - she was certainly being treated as a missing person still at that time
I think the QPS were hoping that they had a fight and she'd gone off with someone or walked off and fallen down a mine shaft or become disoriented - that was certainly the impression I had ....

 

[Maigret]

Yes - but I am sure that you will find that he doesn't use his personal phone to call TM prior to Allison's dissappearance. So I think in this regard how he does contact TM would be interesting. And 4:43 when the sausages call to about 7pm there is a gap in his phone calls.....

Yes I definitely think he had another phone - lets not forget he was also carrying on with two other women at this time - he probably had a cheap pre paid that he kept very close to him and on silent all the time - that's what I would do if I was having extra activity I didn't want anyone to know about - he had that security business too
So CCTV footage - lets hope there is some - the Vic police didn't release all that they had in the JM hearing

 

[KG1]

KG1 - My personal favourite quote from the lovestruck TM is when she says to GBC
'Well I guess the next time I see you will be in court!'

Now is that statement just a bit of crystal ball gazing by TM?

-TM stoicly maintains (at the committal) that she never spoke to GBC about Allisons dissappearance, yet here she is knowing that GBC is likely going to be arrested -of course she discussed this dissappearance it woulld mean her whole world would be coming to an end. It meant the end of support, intimacy and a huge roadbump in her fantasy becoming a reality.

I thoroughly agree with you Liadan. That comment always intrigued me too, as it did not sit with anything else she said. Why would she say such a thing, when there was a search going on? Why indeed, as at that point, he was the 'devastated' husband trying to look after his three daughters? She made this comment to GBC as she knew in her heart and her head that GBC was far from an innocent man looking for his wife, or not looking in his case. Why would she think he was not innocent? Because she knows far more of the intricacies of the relationship than she will tell and despite what she states in her statements, Allison was discussed and it is ridiculous to maintain that over a 4 year relationship, Allison, and GBCs difficulties with his marriage, would NOT be discussed, at length. Of course she knew, and that comment demonstrates her belief that he is responsible for Allison's current disappearance. This was only a little more than 24 hours after Allison's 'disappearance' that TM said this to GBC. She had no need to explore other possibilities - she knew that the husband knew, and she knew that he would end up in court. What other explanation makes sense? MOO

 

[Trooper]

KG1 - My personal favourite quote from the lovestruck TM is when she says to GBC
'Well I guess the next time I see you will be in court!'

*edited by me*


My fave, of all time, a real classic, is Toni's starry eyed claim...

'I did not talk to Gerard about financial things . The time we were together I wanted it to be special'.....I trusted he knew more about business than I did'...


dearie me.

 

[wewillgetyou]

At the committal hearing it was noted that TM actually had her dates wrong in the statement and she did infant break it off with GBC in September not October.

 

[Maigret]

Yes - sorry I should have added that you will find that GBC doesn't use his personal phone to call TM prior to Allison's dissappearance. So I think in this regard how he does contact TM would be interesting. And from about 4:43 -5:00 when GBC makes the sausages call to her till about 7pm there is a gap in his phone calls..... So if we can pin down his movements .....

And he knew Alison would be at the hairdressers for a couple of hours

 

[Maigret]

At the committal hearing it was noted that TM actually had her dates wrong in the statement and she did infant break it off with GBC in September not October.

Strange she got it wrong it wasn't years before and he was the love of her life that she left her children's father for

 

[Trooper]

well.. Gerard had to ring Toni as soon as possible after his interview.. it is odd to me that he waited until Saturday morning to do that. * he was such a busy guy that Saturday morning.. off to Dr Beavan, over to Dr. Kumar, down to see his lawyer on the Gold coast.. it was just go, go, go...*

He had to inform her, that he had in fact mentioned the affair. the police had asked him the name of the woman, BUT he had flubbed it, and lied, and told them the affair ended last year.. That it was ongoing was buried deep, as deep as silly Gerard thought it could be, merely by saying it, he went to a lot of flim flam getting Olivia, and Nigel removed from the room so he could tell the two Sargeants about an affair that Olivia and Nigel no doubt knew about.. he says, he doesnt want Olivia and Nige to know, but this is nonsense. Nige worked in the office at the time he fired Toni, made a big hoo haa of it * what must life have been in that office??* ... so Nige knows about THAT affair..

so does Nige know about the rekindling of it??

in the objection to bail posted by the prosecutor, it is firmly stated that due to lawful phone intercepts the police were aware that Gerard was in constant contact with Toni McHugh, with the co operation of Nigel and Elaine using their phone to do it.

So Toni has to maintain that the affair ended last year.. now how Toni feels about saying that, I dont know, since her whole world depends in this affair being trumpeted from the rooftops on any occasion... but she swallows her pride and states, at her first statement , that yes, it ended last year.... so thats the story as of Saturday morning.

A nice touch to this is, Gerard rang Toni while she was actually at the police station waiting to be attended to... I expect that must have bought a grim smile to the usually stern lips of the listeners on Gerard and Toni's phones.

 

[Happygolucky]

In Toni McHugh's 1st statement of 21/4/12 to QPS, I was intrigued to find the below extract from paragraph 47. What do others think?

Very good point KGI

 

[Trooper]

Strange she got it wrong it wasn't years before and he was the love of her life that she left her children's father for

Everyone else remembered it. In Ben Bassingthwaites statement that event had all the hallmarks of the Siege at Krishnapur about it. Terri , the office manager rang Ben to tell him Toni was dementedly crying and screaming and trying to have all her stuff removed from her office, what should she do? Ben rang Toni, Toni tells Ben Gerard is gutless for firing her and not leaving Allison, she doesnt understand, Ben tries to make arrangements to get this thing under control, Gerard is telling all the staff about his bonking Toni , Allison has found out, Toni must go, that very hour, ....

Surely this isnt an every day event in most workplaces??

 

[Happygolucky]

Yes I definitely think he had another phone - lets not forget he was also carrying on with two other women at this time - he probably had a cheap pre paid that he kept very close to him and on silent all the time - that's what I would do if I was having extra activity I didn't want anyone to know about - he had that security business too
So CCTV footage - lets hope there is some - the Vic police didn't release all that they had in the JM hearing

Another possibility---How do we know that when TM made the sausages phone call Gerard did not make an arrangement to go and meet her to calm her down and then be back in time to bring the girls home. That way he would not have used his phone.

 

[Strangeworld]

Yes - sorry I should have added that you will find that GBC doesn't use his personal phone to call TM prior to Allison's dissappearance. So I think in this regard how he does contact TM would be interesting. And from about 4:43 -5:00 when GBC makes the sausages call to her till about 7pm there is a gap in his phone calls..... So if we can pin down his movements .....

He did call TM on the 19/4 at 2.43pm at her office on his phone - call lasted 5.03 minutes.

 

[Happygolucky]

well.. Gerard had to ring Toni as soon as possible after his interview.. it is odd to me that he waited until Saturday morning to do that. * he was such a busy guy that Saturday morning.. off to Dr Beavan, over to Dr. Kumar, down to see his lawyer on the Gold coast.. it was just go, go, go...*

He had to inform her, that he had in fact mentioned the affair. the police had asked him the name of the woman, BUT he had flubbed it, and lied, and told them the affair ended last year.. That it was ongoing was buried deep, as deep as silly Gerard thought it could be, merely by saying it, he went to a lot of flim flam getting Olivia, and Nigel removed from the room so he could tell the two Sargeants about an affair that Olivia and Nigel no doubt knew about.. he says, he doesnt want Olivia and Nige to know, but this is nonsense. Nige worked in the office at the time he fired Toni, made a big hoo haa of it * what must life have been in that office??* ... so Nige knows about THAT affair..

so does Nige know about the rekindling of it??

in the objection to bail posted by the prosecutor, it is firmly stated that due to lawful phone intercepts the police were aware that Gerard was in constant contact with Toni McHugh, with the co operation of Nigel and Elaine using their phone to do it.

So Toni has to maintain that the affair ended last year.. now how Toni feels about saying that, I dont know, since her whole world depends in this affair being trumpeted from the rooftops on any occasion... but she swallows her pride and states, at her first statement , that yes, it ended last year.... so thats the story as of Saturday morning.

A nice touch to this is, Gerard rang Toni while she was actually at the police station waiting to be attended to... I expect that must have bought a grim smile to the usually stern lips of the listeners on Gerard and Toni's phones.

I don't think we do know that NBC knew about the rekindled affair. He had already commented that he was glad the shenaghans" were over. It certainly would not been talked about openly at the office now that Allison worked there and was sitting at TMs desk.

Just because Gerard used his parents phone, doesn't mean I know who they are ringing. If one my children borrow my phone because they have misplaced theirs or their battery has gone flat, I don't ask who they are ringing or listen in to their calls. I suspect Elaine, particularly, is in a very difficult position and is caught somewhere between a rock and a hard place. She was not at Gerard's house that morning

 

[Trooper]

There has to be a reason why Gerard decides to begin again with Toni in December..

As soon as I wrote that I realised that any reasoning Gerard has is out of my capability of grasping but putting that to one side....

Toni says she rang, she emailed , she rang and rang and rang, she wanted an explanation, she didnt understand why, why did it end, why was she fired, why why.qhy is Allison working there, why, .

So in December, Gerard meets her, they 'confirm ' their love.. whatever that means, he makes promises, he paints a picture of hope and solution, they make certain conditions, that is, no sex, excuse me , there is the promise, though.

So what made Gerard decide on this course of action in December? Nothing so far in the financial forensics points to a huge upheaval more than the ordinary upheavals, The business was on its normal swift slide down, nothing unusual , his capacity to pay his debts no further advanced, his facade is still operative to a certain degree...

Had he had a bright idea?? had something come to mind, or a light at the end of this dreadful tunnel been lit? Something made Gerard take Toni on again, despite the fact that he is toying with a couple of gals from other agencies....

 

[Couldbe]

Did they have a relationship at all?

Hopefully any conversations between GBC and visitors to Arthur Gorrie (and during the Committal Hearing) are taped and accessible to the Prosecution. Because it could be that TM is receiving instructions from GBC (via a source) with regard to what to reveal/say. I am sure they would use any method they could to be in communication.
She is a witness for the Prosecution.
JMO

 

[Trooper]

. *edited by me*

Just because Gerard used his parents phone, doesn't mean I know who they are ringing.

*edited by me*

'Lawfully intercepted phone calls on one of the defendants phone lines supports that the defendant has used his parents to assist him in covertly contact Ms McHugh on his behalf.

this is not Gerard using his parents phone without their knowledge. it is his parents using their phone to assist him in covertly contacting Ms McHugh.. it is clearly there on the police prosectutors statement.