Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #46

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  • #741
Stopping by to say Happy Father's Day to all the dads. Hope you had a lovely day :)

And a pretty bunch of yellow for Wattle Day which is every 1st September.

flat,550x550,075,f.jpg
 
  • #742
Nads, I've been called for jury duty a few times and have been lucky enough to get out of it. However, I would love to be called on this case, the problem I have is when I'm asked if I can be impartial? I think I'd be excused immediately.


Nads & AAAA, I've been on jury service several times (why me?) And at each sitting I have always been on an actual panel. First time a fraud case - several charges and jury couldn't agree on one charge and it took forever to make a decision. At the end of that trial we all hoped we never saw each other again.

Next I was on a murder trial. A well-known case in the area and we (the jury) systematically went through exactly what the judge told us to consider. Because this took so long, we got shuffled off to a motel and were in lock down for the night. The police had to go to our homes and collect from our families what we requested. For one jury member living alone, the police had to get her stuff and feed her cat! We said he was guilty early the next day. Four days later I was on a jury panel in a drug case which didn't finish as accused pleaded guilty.

Next time I was called for jury service I was on the most boring of cases - perverting the course of justice. The jury made a not guilty decision in about 5 minutes. Was a waste of court resources.

These are the main things that have intrigued me each time I have been on a jury panel:

- the jury's group dynamics - how life-long bonds and short-term friendships can be formed; detest for fellow members and their opinions; and the nicest experience is of a group coming together for a single purpose and respecting each other's feelings and opinions and supporting each other to a unanimous decission

- how the legal system presents cases especially when the prosecution or defence have much in their favour

- how loooonnnnnggggg both sides take in opening and especially closing statements

- how loooonnnnnggggg the Judge/Magistrate takes to initially instruct the jury, then give advice before the jury goes into consideration mode.

- how much time jury panels have to sit around in the jury room while stuff goes on that the jury is not allowed to hear

- how cold (temperature) the court rooms are - ridiculous and so unnecessary. Last time I nearly took in a blanket :coldcase:

- how much money goes into our court system and how lengthy it is

As years go by I have observed the Judge/Magistrate states the bleeding obvious to the jury now-a-days and thinks we, the joe blow public jury are idiots. I was actually offended by the last Magistrate's comments to the jury.

I have also been a witness in various courts - many times in my professional capacity and a few times in incidents I was involved in on a personal level.

Sorry to have rabbited on a bit and MOO.
 
  • #743
  • #744
Via Queensland Times... Counsel for the Crown Michael Byrne confirmed to the Supreme Court this morning he would apply for a basha inquiry involving the Relationships Australia family counsellor.

A basha inquiry allows a witness who has not given evidence during a committal hearing to be cross-examined.

Mr Byrne said the evidence concerned things said between Allison Baden-Clay, Gerard Baden-Clay and the counsellor in separate sessions in March and April, 2012.

Justice Glenn Martin ordered the prosecution submit an application for a basha inquiry and Relationships Australia file written submissions by September 18.

The case will be reviewed on September 20 and if the Crown's inquiry application is successful, a hearing date to cross-examine the counsellor will be set before Baden-Clay goes to trial.
http://m.qt.com.au/news/baden-clay-counsellor-could-be-forced-testify-cour/2005894/
Baden-Clay counsellor could be forced to testify in court
Ava Benny-Morrison 2nd September 2013 12:54 PM
 
  • #745
  • #746
Via Queensland Times... Counsel for the Crown Michael Byrne confirmed to the Supreme Court this morning he would apply for a basha inquiry involving the Relationships Australia family counsellor.

A basha inquiry allows a witness who has not given evidence during a committal hearing to be cross-examined.

Mr Byrne said the evidence concerned things said between Allison Baden-Clay, Gerard Baden-Clay and the counsellor in separate sessions in March and April, 2012.

Justice Glenn Martin ordered the prosecution submit an application for a basha inquiry and Relationships Australia file written submissions by September 18.

The case will be reviewed on September 20 and if the Crown's inquiry application is successful, a hearing date to cross-examine the counsellor will be set before Baden-Clay goes to trial.
http://m.qt.com.au/news/baden-clay-counsellor-could-be-forced-testify-cour/2005894/
Baden-Clay counsellor could be forced to testify in court
Ava Benny-Morrison 2nd September 2013 12:54 PM

So the defence actually wants the evidence of the counsellor to be heard. I wonder how they think it can help GBCs case - interesting.
 
  • #747
So the defence actually wants the evidence of the counsellor to be heard. I wonder how they think it can help GBCs case - interesting.

Quite a coincidence!!...

BBM

September 2, 2013

Prosecutor Michael Byrne QC said the counsellor's evidence involved things said during family counselling sessions with Baden-Clay's dead wife Allison Baden-Clay and Baden-Clay himself in 2012

Baden-Clay's defence barrister, whose name is also Michael Byrne, said the counsellor's evidence was clearly admissible.

Justice Martin told prosecutors to apply for a hearing to examine the witness before trial

http://au.news.yahoo.com/qld/a/18751501/baden-clay-counsellor-could-drag-out-trial/
 
  • #748
Oh my! How confusing it will get!! We might have to call them (M)B1 and (M)B2 :lol:
 
  • #749
I have come late to this case, so as a retired Relationship Counsellor, I am curious as to what has been revealed about their marriage so far.

For example, were both husband and wife seeking counselling to save their marriage or did one party want to separate and the other party did not want to despite infidelity of the husband and the financial difficulties of his real estate business?

Have any of you got any ideas about the husband's motive for wanting his wife's demise? Was she unwilling to separate for the sake of the children?

If their relationship was so bad, why didn't they separate earlier? Not all marriages can be saved! I hope the Relationship Counsellor did not give them false hope. If the husband was so unhappy, why didn't he just separate and live somewhere else? Murder (alleged) is not the best solution! Was Alison in total denial? Or was the real problem the financial difficulties they were facing?
 
  • #750
I have since accessed this link:

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...fekiller-gerard-badenclay-20120626-210bz.html

April 12, 2012
Police allege Mr Baden-Clay inquired about one of Mrs Baden-Clay's life insurance policies but was given no information as he was not a policy holder.

April 17, 2012
Police allege the Baden-Clay financial adviser made a "further query" on a life insurance policy held by Mrs Baden-Clay.

Mr Baden-Clay had also told police he and Mrs Baden-Clay had been attending counselling services over his infidelity, which had ceased. He said the counsellor had advised they talk about the infidelity and relationship issues for 15 minute blocks at night.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...d-badenclay-20120626-210bz.html#ixzz2djufwY4s

So it appears that the husband's motive for murder was to access his wife's insurance policy to help to resolve his financial difficulties. I wonder how much her policy was worth?

If he had debts over one million dollars, why didn't he just go bankrupt?

IMO advice about talking about the husband's infidelity and relationship issues in 15 minute blocks every night is not IMO a very good idea as it is a negative way to go rather than encouraging them to talk about the positive things which were the reason they got together in the first place.
 
  • #751
Something I had never heard before is "taking the fifth":

April 18, 2012
At 10.08pm, police allege Mr Baden-Clay searched "taking the fifth", which led to results including 'self incrimination', which he accessed through Wikipedi
a.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...d-badenclay-20120626-210bz.html#ixzz2djzNgypz

So I also looked this up on Wikipedia:

The prohibition against self-incrimination is an individual right not to implicate ones' self in a criminal offense.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-Incrimination_Clause

So there was the motive of money (wife's insurance policy) and the evidence of premeditation in trying to find out about her insurance policy and looking up "taking the fifth" which says you do not have incriminate yourself in a criminal offense.

I am glad I do not have a life insurance policy then!
 
  • #752
Estelle & any other members who may not have seen the following link. It contains majority of reports about the case from when Allison first disappeared right up until today.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=171094"]AU-Allison Baden-Clay,43,Brisbane QLD, 19April2012 MEDIA/TIMELINE LINKS,NO DISCUSSION - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]
 
  • #753
I am annoyed by this Carmel Ritchie, why won't she just speak up? Is she hiding something .. were there signs of violence in the marriage and she kept pushing forward for a reconciliation when it was clear that Allison may be in some danger? It bothers me that she wont testify about what was going on, and is possibly going to cause a delay.

Is it simply a matter of principle?
 
  • #754
back on for a while . been catching up with the thread.i always thought that gbc would be better off saying they had a blue and he accidently choked her and get off with manslaughter . sincerely hope this doesnt happen. <modsnip>
 
  • #755
back on for a while . been catching up with the thread.i always thought that gbc would be better off saying they had a blue and he accidently choked her and get off with manslaughter . sincerely hope this doesnt happen. <modsnip>

The other thing is: GBC is innocent and maintains his innocence. It was Bruce Overland who did it.
:ufo:
And I sincerely that doesn't happen.
Happy to be modsnipped if this notion is likely to be used by GBC to declare his "innocence".
 
  • #756
The other thing is: GBC is innocent and maintains his innocence. It was Bruce Overland who did it.
:ufo:
And I sincerely that doesn't happen.
Happy to be modsnipped if this notion is likely to be used by GBC to declare his "innocence".

The last time I even thought about BO was over Easter when the lonely dating adds on TV kept repeating. I thought of what would people name themselves? Masculine but trusty worthy for guys..

Mrs Norris, good point about why she won't testify. The Barrister for RA said it was her choice to testify. I guess it will leave her open to
more court cases. If she said to a client that she would never tell..
 
  • #757
That's a very good point about what the counsellor told her clients, and also whether she got them to sign anything relating to confidentiality. If she did her job, she would have covered herself in regards to limits of confidentiality (like court orders, etc), but if she didn't, and she can't prove it, it may open her up to issues with GBC. Such a complex matter.
 
  • #758
hmm thinking that maybe GBC was sweet too Carmel and her wrapped around his finger. If that is the case then - she is protecting herself.
 
  • #759
She is doing the right thing by her clients; more than likely the courts do not often push too hard for confidential material. This is something all counsellors must anticipate when beginning practice.
 
  • #760
Perhaps counsellor and her employer are merely covering themselves legally?
You'd have to think this would be Client Most Likely to Sue the 🤬🤬🤬 Off You, were you to disclose details later found to be subject to confidentiality?
 
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