Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #46

[Thinking]

Thanks Thinking. That makes sense. Yet there is still the frozen insurance money ($800,000.00?) that GBC can't get his hands on at the moment. Wouldn't that be a large carrot to entice Mahoney to continue his representation?

Hi Makara my guess (hope) is that Mahoney does not have confidence that GBC will be cleared - thus Mahoney is fairly certain that there is little chance that GBC will ever have access to that insurance money. I hope I'm right anyway!

 

[Sleuthis-maximus]

Hmmm..not really sure about the wannabes branding here....

My post here is quick. Re Allison being chunky... My best friend from high school was a model in the US. A good friend in my early 30's was reluctantly retired from ballet. Model friend does not like to eat or gain muscle. In Ballet you have to eat to sustain your body. Allison's and my friends would never know know Lorna Jane. It is for more runners or wannabes.

 

[nowvoyager]

I agree . Money would be part of it but I wonder if DM has found out something more and knows he is on a hiding to nothing . Or maybe gbc said something that indicated he did it and DM then has to legally dump him , I believe . is that right Ali

I'm happy for Ali to add whatever he/she thinks as my legal experience did not involve much criminal work.

However in Squizzey's scenario, DM is NOT "legally obliged" to stop acting.

The lawyer can continue to act within the ethical rules, if they chose to, if the client admits their guilt..

but only to challenge the evidence and ensure the trial is fair, not to put the blame on other persons, or promote lies.

The link below summarises it from the point of view of the Qld Law Society

http://ethics.qls.com.au/faq/what-d...onfesses-guilt-me-wants-plead-not-guilty.html

After all - and not referring to this case but in general, it's not unknown for a person accused to plead guilty to something they did not do, or where they have a reasonable defence. For that reason even the courts sometimes will not "accept" a guilty plea - they may suspect the person is under some duress or fear or mental problem.trying to protect another.

In the first place it is up to the lawyer to accept or refuse a case. Once having taken it on and then if circumstances change and the client confesses or the evidence changes and they are sure of guilt, it's still their "job".

If they have a moral problem with that, or if the client is difficult and wants to raise all sorts of unreasonable and alien defences, they can try to remove themselves from the case.

If the client does not agree to the lawyer withdrawing services then, as I posted earlier, I believe it is necessary to have the Court agree.

It's a fairly delicate matter as you can hardly go into court and say - I withdraw because he admitted he did it and I have a moral problem over acting for a murderer. It's more likely that you have a difficulty over instructions.... or something.

Personally I think in this case it's only a money issue - that JMLawyers don't work on promises of future payment that may or may not ever be met.

AIMOHO

 

[alioop]

Hi nowvoyager and thanks for your legal input and for getting verified as a lawyer. I too am not a criminal lawyer so I need all the help I can get! I agree with you that GBC' s lawyers withdrawing is most likely to do with lack of funds.

I think the BC's threw a lot of money at the second bail hearing and the committal hoping the criminal charges would end there, but to no avail.

I have been expecting legal aid to be applied for after the committal. Ages ago I called Darren's Mahoney's office and asked if they did legal aid work. They said they didn't. However Peter Davis' office said he did.

So GBC will no doubt apply for legal aid and will be appointed a lawyer at legal aid's discretion.

 

[marlywings]

Copying over a post I just made in Jill Meagher's thread.

I'm not sure if anyone in Brisbane has been listening to ABC radio's Kelly Higgins-Devine's discussions about victim support. She's posted all the past discussion recordings on her blog. Some of this is absolutely heartbreaking!!

The Book You Hope You Never Have To Read

Over the past few weeks Afternoons presenter Kelly Higgins-Devine has been discussing the impact that homicide has on families, friends and colleagues.

You've heard from people whose loved ones have been murdered, how that has torn their lives and families apart, if forgiveness is possible, treatment by the media, and the failings of the legal system

http://blogs.abc.net.au/queensland/...ad-.html?site=brisbane&program=612_afternoons

I'll also include the following link to Queensland Homicide Victims’ Support Group (QHVSG).

http://qhvsg.org.au/

 

[Liadan]

Indro has all for sale I am sure. TM said on the stand that money was not spent on the marital home. If I had a 1 or 2 kids in an activity that cost a lot more than kids in cross country, but my pillow talk was about running as in LJ. Runners like LJ. Moo

So who can guess when dancing fees are due? Would anyone be publicly embarrassed that fees were not paid ergo not needed?

Flinders - I think your mind runs at light speed - do you think you could you slow it down a bit - as I am sure I am missing the gist of what you are trying to say here!

 

[Liadan]

I don't think the Lorna Jane brand is really critical to the case. A few words of hearsay about the brands Allison was wearing does not let us make any assumptions about how GBC knew she was wearing Lorna Jane - heavens perhaps TM trained in this type of gear - back when she was at the 'the Workout' and GBC was working out with his personal trainer.

For what it is worth my two cents about the lawyers is - its just about $$. If GBC's legal team knew he was guilty and could not act for him - money talks--- someone else would pick up GBC. The fact remains that they have gone to legal aid to fund his case.

 

[DrWatson]

For what it is worth my two cents about the lawyers is - its just about $$. If GBC's legal team knew he was guilty and could not act for him - money talks--- someone else would pick up GBC. The fact remains that they have gone to legal aid to fund his case.

I suspect that it might be TWO factors, Liadan - money first and foremost, of course, but also the fact that it was mentioned that the legal team were continually being "frustrated" by GBC and "members of his family" (which I read as NBC and OW in particular). So I have a sneaking suspicion that they are heartily sick of the family interference and having them try to dictate the way the legal team approach their job, and the legal team would therefore be highly relieved to be rid of this case. The money - or lack of it - just makes it easier.

Now, of course, the taxpayers all have to pick up the bill - we're already paying for the prosecution, so now we'll be paying for the defence as well.

Not that I would suggest for one moment that GBC isn't entitled to a fair trial.

 

[Liadan]

I suspect that it might be TWO factors, Liadan - money first and foremost, of course, but also the fact that it was mentioned that the legal team were continually being "frustrated" by GBC and "members of his family" (which I read as NBC and OW in particular). So I have a sneaking suspicion that they are heartily sick of the family interference and having them try to dictate the way the legal team approach their job, and the legal team would therefore be highly relieved to be rid of this case. The money - or lack of it - just makes it easier.

Now, of course, the taxpayers all have to pick up the bill - we're already paying for the prosecution, so now we'll be paying for the defence as well.

Not that I would suggest for one moment that GBC isn't entitled to a fair trial.

Quite right DW, I am simply an onlooker - and sheesh - and I can imagine frustrations the GBC legal team had. From OW speaking to her brother at the hearing and standing opposite him each day prior to the start of the hearing - how much other silly stuff would this family do? I mean what did that achieve - making googley eyes at her brother in the morning was that a show of support? Then the press conference performance.....

I would even suggest that because GBC was actually committed to stand trial the family would have seen this as GBC's legal team failing. And I would imagine that the family would have had an expectation that the legal team owe it to the BC's to get GBC out of trouble.

And of course in typical fashion they BC's have missed the point again. Its legal aid they are not paying -someone will be appointed to GBC. To get the lawyer of choice you pay the lawyers fees.

How do you actually qualify for legal aid? Are their a set of guidelines?

 

[alioop]

Legal aid

Here is the means test to qualify for legal aid

http://www.legalaid.qld.gov.au/abou...rants-policy-manual/Pages/The-means-test.aspx

The merits test doesn't apply to GBC's criminal trial so the assessment by legal aid will only be on his financial situation to determine if he qualifies.

 

[alioop]

Some more relevant info on legal aid

http://www.legalaid.qld.gov.au/ABOU...RAORDINARY-EXPENSIVE-CASES/Pages/default.aspx

In complex matters such as long trials where there are lots of witnesses, which this one will be, the lawyer acting and being paid by legal aid will apply to legal aid for the matter to be determined as "extraordinary and expensive" in order to get greater funding approval.

 

[Flinders]

I don't think the Lorna Jane brand is really critical to the case. A few words of hearsay about the brands Allison was wearing does not let us make any assumptions about how GBC knew she was wearing Lorna Jane - heavens perhaps TM trained in this type of gear - back when she was at the 'the Workout' and GBC was working out with his personal trainer.

For what it is worth my two cents about the lawyers is - its just about $$. If GBC's legal team knew he was guilty and could not act for him - money talks--- someone else would pick up GBC. The fact remains that they have gone to legal aid to fund his case.

Hi L, I have saw that you quote my post and I see why my friends, coworkers and family ask for to explain on what I say. I will get back to why dancers and models with kids won't wear Lorna Jane later.

I only thought of my partner who if I was missing for less than 10 hours would not say to the police this... She went out at night wearing a nice dress but in her dressing room is her Channel dress and Jimmy Choo shoes. Irrelevant but why did he describe her LJ? From TM and her testimony in MSM they had intimate and demanding phone calls as she loved him.

Gerard's talk of LJ is not hearsay as it is in the police report. It is just odd that he added irrelevant details, which true or not we're not necessary in finding and searching for his wife.

Moo

 

[Liadan]

Hi L, I have saw that you quote my post and I see why my friends, coworkers and family ask for to explain on what I say. I will get back to why dancers and models with kids won't wear Lorna Jane later.

I only thought of my partner who if I was missing for less than 10 hours would not say to the police this... She went out at night wearing a nice dress but in her dressing room is her Channel dress and Jimmy Choo shoes. Irrelevant but why did he describe her LJ? From TM and her testimony in MSM they had intimate and demanding phone calls as she loved him.

Gerard's talk of LJ is not hearsay as it is in the police report. It is just odd that he added irrelevant details, which true or not we're not necessary in finding and searching for his wife.

Moo

Much appreciated Flinders!

 

[Makara]

Michael Byrne QC and Peter Shields join Gerard Baden-Clay murder defence team

by: Alison Sandy Right to Information Editor
From: The Courier-Mail
June 13, 2013 12:00AM

ONE of Brisbane's highest-profile successful legal defence teams will represent accused wife-killer Gerard Baden-Clay in his upcoming murder trial.
It is understood Baden-Clay's legal team will include private criminal lawyer Peter Shields and barrister Michael Byrne QC as he fights a murder charge over the death of his 43-year-old wife Allison.

Mr Shields, a former Queensland police officer, defended serial murderer Leonard John Fraser, who was eventually cleared of murdering Natasha Ryan after she was found alive in a cupboard.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...der-defence-team/story-e6frg6n6-1226662756553

BBM:

Oh I so wish that Allison had been found alive in a cupboard. This case is turning into a bloody soap opera! :banghead:

 

[Fuskier]

Michael Byrne QC and Peter Shields join Gerard Baden-Clay murder defence team
by: Alison Sandy Right to Information Editor
From: The Courier-Mail
June 13, 2013 12:00AM

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...der-defence-team/story-e6frg6n6-1226662756553

BBM:
Oh I so wish that Allison had been found alive in a cupboard. This case is turning into a bloody soap opera! :banghead:

Thanks MAKARA for a very informative post.
As Alioop posted above

'the lawyer acting and being paid by legal aid will apply to legal aid for the matter to be determined as "extraordinary and expensive" in order to get greater funding approval' [unquote].
Given that GBC's defense may cost in excess of $500,000 it being 'extraordinary & expensive' it would most likely need Newman government approval as the 'extraordinary & expensive' finances are being drained out of the State's budget for the defense of one alleged murderer. Political assistance from the QLD NLP? Now there's a question. Has the family contributed financially to the NLP campaign in the past? Is this legal aid opportunity given to GBC equally available to other alleged murderers in the state of QLD? Some questions to ponder there IMO.

 

[Champagne4lulu]

Does this mean his legal aid has been approved? And funding approved also? I can't believe it!! Why do they get preferential treatment especially when there's so much public sector cost cutting.

 

[Fuskier]

Does this mean his legal aid has been approved? And funding approved also? I can't believe it!! Why do they get preferential treatment especially when there's so much public sector cost cutting.

Exactly!

 

[Champagne4lulu]

Why would they not just use one of the public defenders? Does that mean any and all accused who qualify for legal aid can spend hundreds of thousands of public money to get the top representation available to defend themselves? What about victim's rights? do they get to apply for funding to have the county's best criminal minds representing them? maybe they do, i dont know? it just seems to me that this is really unfair. im all for a fair trial, but this seems to be all in favour if the defence so far. I'm really surprised and quite appalled by this decision. Have I misinterpreted something? It just doesn't seem right.

 

[possumheart]

IMO this could be a case of 'the squeaky wheel gets the grease'. If the BCs have been so difficult, then top shelf 'silk' representing G may pull them in line and actually see this thing done and dusted.

 

[Amee]

It has been reported Mr Baden-Clay and his family requested Legal Aid appoint Mr Shields to the case.

If Mr Baden-Clay was to receive Legal Aid funding, the organisation could recover its costs by seizing the accused killer's assets.
The Federal Court is holding nearly $800,000 in trust from two life insurance polices for Mrs Baden-Clay until her husband faces trial.

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...efence-team-20130613-2o5bz.html#ixzz2W3izJI3M

:stormingmad: This makes me so angry.