Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #47

[Couldbe]

With GBC suddenly growing a beard following his reporting Allison as a missing person. This can be viewed as an obvious thing to do ... to hide the 'scratch' marks on his face; just so obvious! Wonder what would be said in Court about that sudden change in his appearance?
A response would be that it would avoid any aggravation to the wounds by not continuing to shave in that area during the healing process.
Or maybe he would say that it was because the Police had taken his blunt razor.

Wonder how this factor might be viewed in the Trial.

 

[BreakingNews]

I have some experience with CPAP therapy. It is a treatment for sleep apnea (and snoring) but not a cure.

Usually once diagnosed, the patient needs to use it for life unless the reason for sleep apnea is due to obesity where weight loss may help. Sometimes surgical intervention and oral appliances are tried with limited success, but cpap therapy is the preferred 'gold standard' treatment for sleep apnea.

In my experience, all cpap machines these days record the sleep therapy data.

Typically recording parameters include start time, end time, any breaks in between, the pressure the machine has been running at plus Sleep Apnea events (defined as stopping breathing for 10 seconds or more)

Often flow data will also be recorded (breathing cycle) and with Auto CPAP (APAP) machines, the pressure will vary as required to treat sleep apnea and snoring, and would be more obvious when actual sleep and waking events occurs rather than just usage.

CPAP therapy becomes second nature and using it every time during sleeping is essential and habitual. So if GBC used it every night and did not on the night in question, that would raise alarm bells and be more circumstantial evidence.

I can't comment on prison use, but I think it would be permitted, as it is a medical condition that can be potentially life threatening if untreated. I assume the prison authorities have a duty of care to their 'guests'

For those interested in learning more about this condition, please visit Sleep Disorders Australia (SDA) which is a charitable organisation run by volunteers who help sufferers and their families nationwide. They have a free information booklet and many Fact Sheets on a range of sleep disorders including sleep apnea, snoring etc available for free download from their website.

Also if you have any questions there is an informative FAQ section on this website.

I have used a CPAP machine for several years. I was never a snorer. But the machine kicks along when I stop breathing, so keeps me going.

Most machines can be read in the LED screen each morning, then the data goes to a chip which can be read at a CPAP centre. Wonder if GBC's chip was examined?

The machine is not prescribed for snoring. It is prescribed after a night of tests where true sleep apnoea is detected. This can be life-saving for some, or merely make you less tired in the morning. We can only hope that this life-saving device is not allowed in prisons. Oops, did I say that?

 

[possumheart]

Yesterday, police found a mobile phone SIM card and a pair of gloves near where Mrs Baden-Clay's body was found. But they said this afternoon that the SIM card was not related to the case

We never did find out if these were the latex gloves missing a tip.
... Bring on the trial ... <modsnip>...

 

[DrWatson]

Yesterday, police found a mobile phone SIM card and a pair of gloves near where Mrs Baden-Clay's body was found. But they said this afternoon that the SIM card was not related to the case

We never did find out if these were the latex gloves missing a tip.
... Bring on the trial ... <modsnip>...

I seem to recall - vaguely, and can't find the link - that these were gardening-type gloves. I don't think they were surgical gloves, or medical disposable gloves - which would be the type implicated by the Latex tip found in the sleeve of the jumper.

However, that's relying on my memory - if somebody can find the link re the gloves, then I'm happy to be corrected.

 

[Couldbe]

A cop wouldn't have to tell me twice not to load a vacuum cleaner
Yes sir occifer !

TGY .... know you mean!

On that morning, if NBC wasn't removing a suspicious vacuum cleaner from GBC's premises, it sure looked like he wasn't taking Allison's disappearance too seriously (I will continue on, and just send me a text if and when she turns up!).

On the other hand, with GBC having put in a missing person call that would trigger a Police search,

.... was he intending to hang around until the Police arrived?
.... was he just busying himself collecting vacuum cleaner and hose .. because he didn't think that the arrival of the Police would concern him?
.... was he trying to show that he thought it wasn't too serious, and Allison would be found soon?
.... had noticed the marks on GBC's face, but wasn't perturbed by them ... surely he would have asked 'what happened'?

What of the reality of the situation at hand!!! :

.... house needing vacuuming was more important and took first priority;
.... just let the Police handle it; and give them reports from time to time;
.... had no suspicions of his son's involvement;
.... was just doing what GBC had asked of him;

Wisdom, from a man of his mature years, just doesn't seem to have been there within the context of the situation.

.... Just looks like he needed to go to ground and fend off any suspicion of involvement by his son.

 

[possumheart]

Dr Milne said during his examination, he found a rubber glove inside the jumper Allison was wearing. He said he could not explain where that had come from but it was relatively clean so he suspected it joined the body after death. Dr Milne said he could not exclude the glove joining the body before her death or at the time of death. He said there was no obvious injuries to suggest the body had been in a moving body of water; bumping against sand, branches or other debris.

http://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/news/crown-call-42-witnesses-baden-clay-committal-heari/1786519/

So was it a glove or the tip of a glove ..? Still looking for gardening gloves.

 

[Amee]

Police had searched an area within a 500m radius from where Mrs Baden-Clay's body was found, he said, and had recovered items including a SIM card, gloves and a drink bottle.

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...n-badenclay-20120501-1xwsw.html#ixzz2tRnlWemp

I cant find anything in msm about a gardening glove.

<modsnip>

 

[DrWatson]

Dr Milne said during his examination, he found a rubber glove inside the jumper Allison was wearing. He said he could not explain where that had come from but it was relatively clean so he suspected it joined the body after death. Dr Milne said he could not exclude the glove joining the body before her death or at the time of death. He said there was no obvious injuries to suggest the body had been in a moving body of water; bumping against sand, branches or other debris.

http://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/news/crown-call-42-witnesses-baden-clay-committal-heari/1786519/

So was it a glove or the tip of a glove ..? Still looking for gardening gloves.

Excellent work, Poss - thanks for that. I just checked the autopsy report, and it was described by Nathan Milne as a "a fingertip of a cream coloured rubber glove" - which could have been a washing-up type of glove I guess. However, he goes on to say that it may represent contamination at the scene. (Meaning he couldn't exclude this). And knowing what type of gloves they wear at those scenes, they're the cream or blue disposable gloves that are available from many pharmacies. They're not all that tight-fitting, and they are fairly short - they only just reach my wrist, as opposed to proper surgical gloves which come well up the forearm and are skin tight.

I still can't find the link to the details and/or picture of the gloves that were found near the scene....

EDIT: Just saw your post above, Amee - thanks for that. Maybe that's where I got the gardening glove thing into my head?

 

[volunteer]

Interesting looking at TM's statement. Their first trysts were when they would drive separately and meet at night on a pitch black road, Mill Road in Pullenvale, not far from Tyamolum Scout Camp and Little Ugly Creek. Dear Doc, you're a local - how many minutes to the Kholo Bridge from there? It must be tricky driving around that way at night unless you've done it a few times, hey? They would have gotten a bit of practise navigating in the five times they met. Maybe they had to go bush because she's a screamer? (Pardon my crudity)

Perhaps TMcH was referring to Mill Rd. which turns directly left from Grandview Rd, and continues until you arrive at gates which lock at about 5 -6 pm, when residents use a remote. There is a housing estate of acreage homes there.There are several parts of the road where they may have pulled up for their trysts. It is very very dark there at night, and very little passing traffic.

I am familiar with the area and have walked Mill Road many mornings.

 

[Strangeworld]

Thought some of you might be interested in this - might do some reading up on these cases.....


[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=235221"]Queensland’s Wolf Creek?Has a serial killer been hunting victims on this remote h'way - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

Queensland&#8217;s Wolf Creek?Has a serial killer been hunting victims on this remote h'way?

 

[sosocurious]

I believe Allison was found on Monday 30 April. There was a long weekend 5 - 7 May and Allison's funeral was on 11 May. Didn't Allison's family organise her funeral while GBC was at the coast? I think those dates are correct.

I know this has all been discussed before.
Words just fail me!!

30 April
A canoeist locates a body on the east bank of Kholo Creek. (bail doc)

The Dickie family distraught while awaiting confirmation if it is their daughter.

30 April
GBC -- soon after being informed A body had been located. GBC financial adviser made an inquiry about one of the deceased life insurance policies. (bail Docs)

1 May - No confirmation that the body was Allison.
The insurer was advised of a pending claim on the policy. (bail docs)

Later on 1 May - Body confirmed to be Allison
Lawyer Darren Mahony said GBC is devastated.
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...lison-baden-clay-found/story-e6freuzr-1226343

Death certificate sought urgently by GBC. (bail doc)

4 May -- GBC collects photos from police station before returning to work at his Century 21 office.
http://www.news.com.au/national/hus...of-murdered-wife/story-e6frfkvr-1226347350132

May 5 - 7 -- Long weekend - family get away??

11 May -- Allison's funeral

21 May -- Death Certificate issued. GBC lodged claims on both of Allison's insurance policies and asked that they be expedited. (bail doc)

While the Dickies were planning the funeral, what was GBC planning??
Bail documents say he was a flight risk, I wonder why?

 

[possumheart]

I know this has all been discussed before.
Words just fail me!!

30 April
A canoeist locates a body on the east bank of Kholo Creek. (bail doc)

The Dickie family distraught while awaiting confirmation if it is their daughter.

30 April
GBC -- soon after being informed A body had been located. GBC financial adviser made an inquiry about one of the deceased life insurance policies. (bail Docs)

1 May - No confirmation that the body was Allison.
The insurer was advised of a pending claim on the policy. (bail docs)

Later on 1 May - Body confirmed to be Allison
Lawyer Darren Mahony said GBC is devastated.
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...lison-baden-clay-found/story-e6freuzr-1226343

Death certificate sought urgently by GBC. (bail doc)

4 May -- GBC collects photos from police station before returning to work at his Century 21 office.
http://www.news.com.au/national/hus...of-murdered-wife/story-e6frfkvr-1226347350132

May 5 - 7 -- Long weekend - family get away??

11 May -- Allison's funeral

21 May -- Death Certificate issued. GBC lodged claims on both of Allison's insurance policies and asked that they be expedited. (bail doc)

While the Dickies were planning the funeral, what was GBC planning??
Bail documents say he was a flight risk, I wonder why?

He had practised taking his girls to the Nothern Territory. IKYK

 

[ollijack]

Oh Gerard, if only you had studied your Great Grandfathers motto's:

“Be Prepared... the meaning of the motto is that a scout must prepare himself by previous thinking out and practicing how to act on any accident or emergency so that he is never taken by surprise.”
&#8213;Robert Baden-Powell

:tos:

 

[Mountain Misst]

According to info we all have all read, GBC apparently told Allison that he was having his way with TM in the car. If we throw everything out the window that GBC has said, then I'm wondering if GG & GM were having their trysts at an empty rental up Mill Road way - perhaps one that the mustard mob may have been managing - business and personal blurring boundaries.

I reckon he'd not be likely to reveal that to the missus.

 

[ollijack]

The Mustard Mob oh ROFL...
Those poor buggers, Century 21 will forever be remembered
in relation to GBC....that has got to have been the worst publicity
an organisation could wish for..!

 

[BreakingNews]

BreakingNews:
There is a group of Humdinger sleuthers Curiousasacat to get a CaseClosed.

While we are Waiting for Justice, the discussion goes back and forth as everyone is Keentoknow the details.

Has the MountainMisst on Flinders Range got anything to do with it?

It CouldBe, but let&#8217;s have a Squizzey at the Berry issue?

No, I don&#8217;t agree. ItstheVibe of the thing. It leaves me sosocurious.
If I was a Fly on the Wall, I&#8217;d have this CaseClosed in no time.

OMG its a StrangeWorld. It&#8217;s got us all Thinking like Maxwell Smart. And during the UnfoldingTruth, They&#8217;ll Get You in the end. And DrWatson will verify that!

When it is CaseClosed, there will not only be Champagne4lulu or LollyPop(s), but the BreakingNews will be that we&#8217;ve all been good Trooper(s) and it will make all our Possumheart(s) light up like Redlightthroughpaper.


Apologies to those included and not included in this bit of silliness.

 

[sosocurious]

BreakingNews:
There is a group of Humdinger sleuthers Curiousasacat to get a CaseClosed.

While we are Waiting for Justice, the discussion goes back and forth as everyone is Keentoknow the details.

Has the MountainMisst on Flinders Range got anything to do with it?

It CouldBe, but let’s have a Squizzey at the Berry issue?

No, I don’t agree. ItstheVibe of the thing. It leaves me sosocurious.
If I was a Fly on the Wall, I’d have this CaseClosed in no time.

OMG its a StrangeWorld. It’s got us all Thinking like Maxwell Smart. And during the UnfoldingTruth, They’ll Get You in the end. And DrWatson will verify that!

When it is CaseClosed, there will not only be Champagne4lulu or LollyPop(s), but the BreakingNews will be that we’ve all been good Trooper(s) and it will make all our Possumheart(s) light up like Redlightthroughpaper.


Apologies to those included and not included in this bit of silliness.

Wow - so clever

 

[LadyBird1]

Dr Milne said during his examination, he found a rubber glove inside the jumper Allison was wearing. He said he could not explain where that had come from but it was relatively clean so he suspected it joined the body after death. Dr Milne said he could not exclude the glove joining the body before her death or at the time of death. He said there was no obvious injuries to suggest the body had been in a moving body of water; bumping against sand, branches or other debris.

http://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/news/crown-call-42-witnesses-baden-clay-committal-heari/1786519/

So was it a glove or the tip of a glove ..? Still looking for gardening gloves.

Autopsy Report page 3 of 16
Other Material
"As the previously described jumper was being examined a fingertip of a cream coloured rubber glove fell out. It is not clear whether this was present within the jumper, or may represent some contamination at the scene. It was not present as a result of contamination within the mortuary."

Those words were penned following a detailed report on the "death scene" attendance. It appears by reading this, that all care was taken in not disturbing anything including clothing or her body, (thus causing one to suspect strongly that the glove fingertip was there all along.)

All reports appear fairly circumspect IMO.

 

[BreakingNews]

Wow - so clever

Maybe just too much time on my hands.

 

[DrWatson]

Autopsy Report page 3 of 16
Other Material
"As the previously described jumper was being examined a fingertip of a cream coloured rubber glove fell out. It is not clear whether this was present within the jumper, or may represent some contamination at the scene. It was not present as a result of contamination within the mortuary."

Those words were penned following a detailed report on the "death scene" attendance. It appears by reading this, that all care was taken in not disturbing anything including clothing or her body, (thus causing one to suspect strongly that the glove fingertip was there all along.)

All reports appear fairly circumspect IMO.

Yes indeed, LB1. That's kind of what I was getting at in my post earlier, I guess. He implied that the glove tip was most likely to have been there all along, but he HAD to state that he could not rule out contamination - eg by one of the undertakers or Fire & Rescue Service people as they handled the body.

However, we know that the body was rolled very carefully onto the stretcher etc, so contamination would be HIGHLY unlikely - but Nathan Milne was just being his usual extremely thorough self. And the TYPE of glove tip was what made it necessary to make that comment. If it had been a thick, washing-up type of glove, then he wouldn't have needed to make that comment. Therefore, I'm deducing that the glove tip was of a similar type to those worn by scene-of-crime personnel. I'm very familiar with those gloves.